Zebralight H600F c/d mk3 85cri and XM-L 2?

psychbeat

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I'm "shocked" that pulling ~4amps from a 3500mah (really more like 3400 & only if u drain it down to 2.5v) would only last 37 mins.

Not.

Do tha maths ;)

Thanks ver much Maukka for doing all of these tests.
I've been using my H600W on max to LV stepdown thru multiple cells in a session for years now and it's been solid. And I'm not all burnt up either if u can believe it.
 
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maukka

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Did you check what the battery voltage was when the light "dropped back in a matter of seconds'?
Sorry, didn't measure the voltage after the test, but I'm charging the cell now so I'll have a rough estimate of the capacity drained. I would assume the voltage was similar to previous tests, so about 3,36 volts.
 

scs

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4A eh. Did ZL provide that? No.
Fine. 3400mAh...
3.4Ah / 4A = 0.85h = 51 min
3.2Ah / 4A = 0.8h = 48 min
Hindsight is 20/20.
 

psychbeat

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4A eh. Did ZL provide that? No.
Fine. 3400mAh...
3.4Ah / 4A = 0.85h = 51 min
3.2Ah / 4A = 0.8h = 48 min
Hindsight is 20/20.

Yer almost getting it! :)

The cutoff on most zebralights is ~2.8v & under max load will probably kick in much earlier... so a 3400mah cell is going to be more like 3000ish most likely.

Most users won't be using maximum in subfreezing temps with a fan blowing on it and 4ish amps draw is a guess at what the circuit will pull without PID kicking in - direct drive into an XML2 or similar emitter.

Rumors are that the HiCRI emitters tend to have a higher VF as well which is another thing the driver has to overcome to achieve ~1000lumens best (or worst if yer not into it) case.

It's similar to quoting runtimes with a direct drive light - "VERY variable[emoji767]" ;)
 

maukka

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The Eagtac took 2260 mAh in during the charge. Se clearly I need to test again with a cell that holds its voltage better at 4 A. I only have a NCR18650BL, but that should be fine. At least according to HKJs battery comparator at 5 A the BL seems much better than a Keeppower 18650 3500 mAh, which uses the same NCR18650GA cell as the Eagtac.

If my math is correct, the current draw of the Zebralight is 3,66 A. 37 minutes @ 3,66 A = 2260 mAh. I thought I read 3,7 amps mentioned somewhere...

On a side note: I tested the Eagtac's capacity at 1 A load and 3,0 V cutoff to be 3060 mAh.
 
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maukka

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Same setup, outside with fan. This time with a Sanyo NCR18650BL and an LG MH1. The Sanyo extends the runtime about 3 minutes to 40 while the LG is neck and neck with the Eagtac.

bJ9ugzg.png
 
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18650

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Re: Any pure flood coming?

It shows what the OP said it shows, PWM. I can make out about 15 scanlines in that picture. But to be fair, i would have to see that shot in motion to see if those scanlines actually move. Read up on PWM and compare stills and animated shots of PWM, then you understand OPs picture.
That doesn't mean a thing. A lot of image sensors will produce output like that at low light levels if they have to up the gain. Some of my old cameras used to show lines like that in those circumstances.
 

insanefred

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Re: Any pure flood coming?

There's absolutely no PWM at any level on the H600Fd.

Because one person claims it has PWM, it will forever haunt the this model.


That doesn't mean a thing. A lot of image sensors will produce output like that at low light levels if they have to up the gain. Some of my old cameras used to show lines like that in those circumstances.


That is usually called "banding".
 

KeepingItLight

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Re: Any pure flood coming?

I guess I am just a geek, because I love this stuff. Maukka, you have turned this into one of the most interesting threads I have read in a while. Thanks!

One question: You say the PID is not responsible for the declining output in your fan-cooled, outdoor tests. Output drops from 100% to roughly 82-85% on the charts. Is that characteristic for a boost driver? Am I to understand that the boost driver cannot keep output at 100% as the battery voltage falls? Or could some of the decline be attributed to PID even in your fan-cooled, outdoor setting?
 

maukka

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Re: Any pure flood coming?

One question: You say the PID is not responsible for the declining output in your fan-cooled, outdoor tests. Output drops from 100% to roughly 82-85% on the charts. Is that characteristic for a boost driver? Am I to understand that the boost driver cannot keep output at 100% as the battery voltage falls? Or could some of the decline be attributed to PID even in your fan-cooled, outdoor setting?

That's a very good question. I am not an electrical engineer and don't have enough knowledge about advanced led drivers to answer that. I will run some more tests on the lower PID mode (560 lm) to check the temps vs. output levels to try and shed some light into this.
 

maukka

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Re: Any pure flood coming?

I don't believe the drop in output is because of the temperature regulation. I ran the light on H2 560 lm mode inside with a fan. The highest temp measured was 43°C, but the output was still at 97,5 %. Outside at max H1 with the fan on the temp was only 22°C.
 

KeepingItLight

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Re: Any pure flood coming?

I still have a lot to learn about boost drivers!

Below is an excerpt from selfbuilt's review of the ZebraLight SC600 Mk. II L2.

Let's see how it does on my estimated lumen scale:

SC600II-Lumens.gif


Overall, my lumen estimates are pretty close to Zebralights specs. The lowest output modes seem lower than the specs would suggest, but that could be due in part to sample variation.

As always, note my lumen estimation method is just that – an estimation based on the calibration of my lightbox. As such, don't get caught up on the absolute difference between lights or levels, as I can't guarantee absolute accuracy. Focus instead on the relative differences, as that is internally consistent across all my reviews.

Output/Runtime Graphs:

Let's start with a comparison of the Hi modes, under my standard testing conditions (i.e., a cooling fan is used)

SC600II-Runtimes.gif


All levels show a clear step-down pattern as the batteries near exhaustion. This is convenient, as it means you won't be stranded in the dark without warning.

But you can also see some evidence of the PID circuit feature on the max mode (Hi1). Although the overall pattern is similar to the drop-off seen on many lights as the batteries/circuit head up, there are actually a lot of very finely discriminated steps in output happening. This will not be apparent to you in practice (i.e., they are too subtle to see), but my lightbox can indeed detect the precise thermal regulation introduced by the PID.

You can read up more about PID (Proportional-Integral-Differential) controllers online, but basically they are a more sophisticated mechanism to regulate circuit function in regards to temperature than the typical step-down features we are used to with flashlights. The controller has to be specifically customized to the build in question, and can be thought of a refinement/replacement of the typical current-control regulation we are used to.

According to Zebralight, both the Hi1 and H2A levels use PID. This presumably explains why they are unable to provide typical runtime estimates (i.e., depends a lot on ambient temperature conditions). Note that I don't see any thermal step-down on the Hi2B runtime above - likely due to my use of cooling fan during testing.

To explore this in more detail, here is a close-up of the H1 and H2A modes with and without a cooling fan:

SC600II-CoolRuntimes.gif


Now you can really see the PID in action. On the Hi1 mode, there's no difference in the runtime pattern due to cooling over the first 5 mins or so. Beyond that point though, the non-cooled runtime shows a progressive drop in output – down to below the Hi2A level. Of course, this also means the light can run for a lot longer, as you are not draining the cells as quickly.

A similar (though less pronounced) effect of the PID can also be seen on the Hi2A run. Output again remains initially consistent between cooling and non-cooling runs, but eventually becomes divergent. By ~25 mins into the non-cooled run, there is a definite drop off in output, although it is not as pronounced as the Hi1 (in relative terms).

That said, the sustained output level of both Hi1 and Hi2A is remarkably consistent once step-down occurs. At the 30 min mark, I would estimate the PID-reduced output on the non-cooled runs to be ~600 lumens on both levels. By 80 mins, it has consistently dropped to ~560 estimated lumens.

Once the pronounced step-downs occur (due to declining battery voltage), performance on the non-cooled runs looks the same as the cooled runs.

Here's a comparison of my standard AW 2200mAh cells to a NCR18650A cell (Xtar 3100mAh)

SC600II-3100Runtimes.gif


Finally, let's do a brief examination of surface temperature relative to output. This was done by simultaneously logging data from a temperature probe taped to the head (on the opposite side from the switch, near the base of the head). There is no cooling applied, and I am using the same Xtar 3100mAh cell as above:

SC600II-Temp.gif


As you can see, the PID keeps the temperature within a remarkably consistent range. Again, don't worry about the absolute temp value (that just reflects the specific probe placement).

Let's see how the fan-cooled SC600-II L2 compares to the competition (all on AW protected 2200mAh):

SC600II-Max18650.gif

SC600II-Hi18650.gif


In H1 mode, and also in H2A mode (the highest alternate), output shows a slow decline even when a fan is used to provide cooling. This result is similar to what maukka is seeing with the ZebraLight H600Fd Mk. III. Evidently, the boost driver cannot maintain flat output on the highest levels.

On the other levels, however, selfbuilt's runtime charts are as flat as you will ever see. The boost driver has no trouble maintaining the required output voltage even as battery voltage wanes.

So why does the boost driver work so well at these lower levels when it cannot remain flat on H1 and H2A?

Beats me.
 

maukka

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Re: Any pure flood coming?

Yes, my H2A mode looks identical to Selfbuit's measurement of SC600-II. Slight drop right in the beginning, then straight.

First 30 minutes
o5hUOKA.png
 

Tachead

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Re: Any pure flood coming?

Can anyone post some beamshots of the H600Fd MKIII please? Outdoor compared to other F models would be great but any will do as there isnt many yet that I can find. Thanks guys.
 
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twistedraven

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Re: Any pure flood coming?

Quick beam shot of Nichia 219B at 4500k vs XML2 easywhite at 4700k vs Luxeon T at 5000k. To my eyes, the 219B has an overall tannish tint, while the XML2 easywhite has an overall yellowish tint but closer to 'white', while the hotspot of the Luxeon T is truest to 'white', and its spill is cool white. I plan on during a 4 way comparison adding the SC63D at 5000k and using a DSLR as opposed to an old point-and-shoot for better picture quality.

OEIJaJl.png
 

maukka

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Re: Any pure flood coming?

I was asked to measure the H600Fd III color temperature on different settings. Here it is in graphical and numerical form.

VfrDSt1.png



cWrlp5p.png
 
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sidecross

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Re: Any pure flood coming?

I was asked to measure the H600Fd III color temperature on different settings. Here it is in graphical and numerical form.

VfrDSt1.png



cWrlp5p.png
Thank you for this additional information. :thumbsup:
 
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