Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

Joined
Jul 15, 2007
Messages
590
I think this would be rather awesome for my garage. I was looking to spend a couple of hundred anyway with fluorescents and fixtures- about 200 and this is promising a few dozen more lumens, give or take.

Then again, it would also make a pretty kick *** grow lamp- and cheaper than LED- and I could still always supplement the light with LED on bars.

Very interesting- I can't find anyone else that sells them.
 

deadrx7conv

Enlightened
Joined
May 5, 2010
Messages
621
Location
USA
Look into LVD or induction lamps.

I have a single 23w LVD bulb that puts CFL's to shame. And, I couldn't find an E26/E27 LED bulb that produces the open flood of the LVD.

lvdbulbs.com has some info.
 

lostinwv

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
95
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the amusing video on the linked page. Now those are some serious eyebrows (Andy Rooney lampoon, I guess).

Entertaining...
 

AnAppleSnail

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
4,200
Location
South Hill, VA

Hmm. Mercury comparison
This page says "Due to the combination of longer bulbs life, and increased efficiency, LVD bulbs can decrease overall mercury contamination by more than 90% compared to fluorescent bulbs."


My research indicates that inductive lighting uses mercury amalgam, which is less polluting than the liquid mercury used in CFLs. I am somewhat sure that this flood light, with 3 mg of mercury, has about 1/5th the mercury of a CFL, but it is an LVD bulb.
3 mg mercury floodlight where again, the difference claimed is "Less mercury, and less harmful mercury." But not "No mercury."
 

TorchBoy

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
4,486
Location
New Zealand
In the light of the mercury page, if I understand what the comparison page is actually saying, they're claiming no mercury waste because the bulb was still going at the end of 10 years. That's highly deceptive because it is not the same as no mercury in the bulbs.

The latest figure I heard for mercury in a CFL was 5 mg.
 

blasterman

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
1,802
Induction light technology is absurdly under-rated and is perhaps the most promising technology on the near horizon. At this point I don't see LED going much of anywhere except for directional lighting applications.

However, I really wish we'd stop seeing references towards 'photopic' vision when it's in the best interest of marketing the product.
 

deadrx7conv

Enlightened
Joined
May 5, 2010
Messages
621
Location
USA
I stand corrected. It has a mercury slug but not liquid/gaseous. So, less of a hazard and more easily recycled/reused.

Most of my CFLs failed when the glass broke or cracked(too many heat cycles??). So, all that CFL mercury is in my kitchen/livingroom/diningroom....in my lungs and maybe on my food too. I don't have that fear with LVD since you can actually break off the mercury amalgam, stick it in an envelope, and mail it to the recycler. And, unless it explodes completely, you don't have to worry about the mercury(liquid or gas) in your environment.

I think that induction is seriously under marketed. Its the perfect quick/easy replacement for ALL CFLs, HPS/LPS halide street lighting..... without the LED hassle. Bulb life is extremely long. We're at ~100lm/w already. Simple unscrew old bulb and screw in a new LVD bulb retrofit capability. Excellent CRI. But, as we know, lobbyists control our choices.

I love my LED lighting, as I have a couple bulbs with 2x3 Cree(6watt) and some that are 9w. They run hot. If you search ebay for: "G60 LED -flashlight" or "L11 e27 led", you'll see some of the bulbs that I've used for a couple years now. I was never impressed by the LED bulbs sold at LowesHomedepotTargetWalmart and some of those catalogue shops(usually grossly overpriced). But, it looks like that ccrane and earthled... have seriously reduced their 'profit margin' compared to a year or 2 ago. Those $150 LED bulbs from 2 years ago, were $100 last year, and now are $50.

The LED lighting is definitely directional but I have a frosted 6w LED bulb that has good all around output but is about equivalent to a 25-40w incan. No way will it replace a 60w incan which is minimal for the lighting I need. It shares a 2 bulb fixture with a 15w CFL. The LED/CFL combo is a great match in your typical enclosed 2 bulb fixture. LED bulb is instant full on and the CFL catches up to and passes its output after a warm up.

The L11 e27 LED is directional as most of it is heatsink. 9w's is a limit and larger heatsink mass or fan cooling will be needed if anything stronger is used. This is the perfect shower bulb as the shower bulb points straight down through a ripple glass fixture lens. Because it points down, this 9w LED bulb is equivalent to a 75w incan in the shower fixture. But, the 6w is brighter than the 9w when used to light a room. That directional issue shows as the 6watter glows the entire room and the 9watter lights up the opposite wall like a strong flashlight and you rely on light reflection. Maybe I should paint all the walls/ceiling with reflective paint:D then those directional LEDs would be more tolerable.

One thing I don't like about CFL is that I always have to step up the size to make up for warm up and normal decrease in lighting over time. I prefer the 15w-20w CFL to replace the 60w incan, even though most comparison charts show 12-14w CFL as a 60w incan equivalent. And, most of my 75w incans were replaced with 19w-24w CFLs. 30w CFLs to replace the garage ceiling 100w incans. I'm pretty close to incan/3 to pick my CFL light. Most charts are incan÷4 to pick a CFL size. Usually that means my lighting is a tad more brighter when the CFL's are fully warmed up. Also can guess that incan÷5, ÷6, or ÷7 for choosing my LEDs over incans even though marketers make it seem that incan÷10 should help you pick an LED bulb. Not for me!

Incan's and CFL's work better in many fixtures since the bulbs sit sideways. Not too good for LEDs as they're best in a fixture that points the bulb where you want the light. So, fixtures needs to be redesigned and have more 'reflector' material on top to move the light into your room.
 

blasterman

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
1,802
But, as we know, lobbyists control our choices.

I don't think I can let off consumers that easy :shrug:

Buying decisions in regards to these products are pretty much dictated by what's available at Big Box stores which are nothing more than showrooms full of junk from China. As I've said in numerous threads, we treat these stores as the apex of technology because we're too lazy to think otherwise or do some R&D. As far as I'm concerned we could almost yank kids out of school and put them to work full time at Home Depot and Walmart because what's available in the aisles is all they'll ever need to know about technology, right?

While the induction screw in style bulbs linked to the site above have excellent advertised lifetimes, I have to be concered because there aren't more types of induction type bulbs on the market. If they were as popular as standard CFLs, I'm convinced that even induction bulbs would start to suffer longevity issues as the price and quality plummeted.

Which brings me to a controversial conclusion that if we really want to get western consumers to make the right decisions, then rather than trying to legislate light bulb formats why not just put a tax on anything that screws directly into an E27 socket? Think about it - no conventional bulb that plugs directly into mains is that efficient, LED retrofits are a joke in denial, and screw in CFLs are mostly junk and have a fraction the lifespan of dedicated fixtures and ballasts. While were at it, an energy credit for new homes built without E27 sockets. The new technologies aren't the problem - it's legacy bulbs formats that are the problem. Why should an induction bulb suffer a 50-75% longevity hit because it screws into a E27 socket? Same with LEDs and fluorescents.

I realize there's always a cost increase in regards to dedicated fixtures -vs- being a bit lazy and just connecting something directly to mains and screwing it in. However, I've seen a lot of wives get dirty looks from their husbands when they buy a fugly $200 lamp :thinking: Falls under 'dedicated fixture' if you ask me.
 

ama230

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 23, 2010
Messages
416
Location
Mesa, Arizona
I have never seen this before but this will definitely do better than incandescent technologies. Then there is the price and durability questions. It has the tremendous life but as with glass containers and high pressure gases there is a level of uncertainty with portability. I believe this is not what they are shooting for but again its looks very interesting.

Remember: We are trying to phase out these high output lights due to light pollution and overall power consumption. Its no where near LEDs so you guys can still sleep at night and the only possibility i can see these used in is in industrial buildings and nothing else. Also this is putting out crazy heat so a compact florescent is still cheaper and better, it just seems like they mad it a little smaller so this is nothing new as plasma tvs were nothing special and are energy hogs but they were cool while they lasted.

LEDs: Using nichias gs 5mm's you can have a much more usable spectrum with less output of photons and not to mention power. Also why are we going back to mercury as i thought we weren't going to use it anymore.... What the fudge....:thinking:

Great find by the way and it seems that there is more resources used in making this technology then it saves. Just like nuclear power, its not safe nor special, its chaotic, toxic and uberdangerous.

Try looking a LECs and this is using a ultracapitor technology that stores a charge and and emits light at the same time so there is no more foward voltage of .7v. Then again it has a low output of 100lumens/sq ft but again its requires nothing special just like leds.

Also plasma emits light as is so whats up with light emitting plasma. Don't try to spice it up dirt...:crackup:
 

TorchBoy

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
4,486
Location
New Zealand
I stand corrected. It has a mercury slug but not liquid/gaseous. So, less of a hazard and more easily recycled/reused.
At 3 mg there may not be less of it, and of course it's not going to be solid if the bulb has had time to warm up. Wikipedia on CFLs:
Some CFLs are marketed as "instant on" and have no noticeable warm-up period, but others can take up to a minute to reach full brightness, or longer in very cold temperatures. Some that use a mercury amalgam can take up to three minutes to reach full output.
...
Most CFLs contain 3 – 5 mg per bulb, with some brands containing as little as 1 mg
The CFL in the room I'm in at the moment claims 67 lm/W, not the 40 lm/W the comparison page states (or 50 lm/W in the similar page here). Those pages also make no mention of warm up time for the LVP, which mercury amalgam implies. Not a problem if there's no mercury/mercury amalgam in them, but the mercury page on the same site says LVD bulbs do have mercury. :confused:
 

deadrx7conv

Enlightened
Joined
May 5, 2010
Messages
621
Location
USA
My 23w LVD's warm-up, when cold(and I kept my thermostat at 60F during the winter), is very quick. The LVD lights up instantly and I would guess that it is at 75%+ output. And, within a minute its at 100%. The 23w CFL will flicker, glow(maybe as low as 25% output) and usually takes 3-4 minutes to hit full hot output. My 23w CFL is a Sylvania. I need to check to see if I have other brands of CFLs to compare the LVD to. But, I haven't seen a brand of CFL that is as quick and bright as the LVD. And, this is important as some closet lights, laundry room lights, basement or garage lights, might not even be on for a minute or two at most. One thing I hate is just standing around waiting for the CFLs to get warm enough so that I can see what I'm looking for.

One thing I hate about my 7 R30 CFLs in the kitchen is that it takes them a while to warm up. There are no LVD equivalents to an R30 yet. But, I'll probably replace them with PAR30 LED equivalents.

Hopefully the market warms up to LVDs. I'd fire up the hole saw to replace the R30 ceiling fixtures for some LVDs fixtures! But, from the looks of it, I might be stuck with LED replacements.

I'm also not wealthy. So, those $400 LEP bulbs aren't worth it for me.

The only issue with LVD bulbs is that they are fugly. So, they are not the best open fixture bulb out there. Hide 'em behind a lamp shade or in some fancy fixture is great. But, for most floor lamps, incan/led/cfl are definitely more pretty. LVD are great open lights in unfinished basements and hanging from your garage/shed ceilings and in larger outdoor fixtures.

I'm trying to find the 15w LVD since the 23w is too bright/big for some of the locations that I'm using it in.
 

Latest posts

Top