Spyderco Calypso Jr / ZDP-189 steel / calling all experts

Pokerstud · May 18, 2007

I was looking at the Spyderco Calypso Jr with ZDP-189 steel:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/spo/329045819.html

I did some reading up on this steel, and some articles state that it has a RC of 65-67. Supposedly, that would make a blade pretty brittle, but not this steel. What are the advantages / disadvantages of this hardness?

There are not a lot of knives out there with this steel. The Calupso Jr specs state "sandwiched between two layers of 420J2 stainless is a single layer of the new Hitachi super steel - ZDP-189", is this good, bad, ugly, optimum?

SO, I'm calling on the blade masters to help put this into perspective for me please.

cutlerylover · May 18, 2007

According to the chart I go by it is 68...

http://rusticforge.com/Knives/steelchart.htm

From what I hear most people like it, but I have heard of 3 different cases where people were using a Kershaw Leek with this steel and they had the tip break off because of how brittle it was, but keep in mind that in ALL three cases these people were not using the knife properly, either prying with the tip, or in one of the cases someone was stabbing into somethgin then moving it from side to side to get the blade out...So Im sure you have nothgin to worry about as logn as you use the knife properly, but for the people who abuse their knives and use them for other thgins besides cutting, well this steel is not for them...

Now the sandwich style steels like this have very good perfomance...the harder core or middle steel gives the blade more strength, but the softer outer steel makes sharpening a bit easier...Put it this way its being used on some more expensive knives for a reason...I have not yet tried a knife with this steel yet so all this information is based on what I have read, not personal experience...

Danbo · May 18, 2007

What that means is, this blade will stay sharp for a LONG time, before you need to sharpen it. Probably won't be a lot of fun to sharpen, but you've gotta expect that with a Rockwell that high.

Pokerstud · May 18, 2007

Thanks Jeff, I was hoping you would chime in on this one. I am still comtemplating the Calypso Jr. as it seems to fit what I'm looking for seeing as I can't afford what I really want, and I use my knives. I'd rather totally screw up a $70 knife than a Sebenza :candle: I wish there were more varities available with this steel. If I get it, I'll play guinea pig and post some sort of a review.

Thanks to you also Danbo, thats a good point.

shakeylegs · May 18, 2007

Pokerstud,
I bought one of these when the first run was produced hoping it was light enough to replace the AG Russell Featherlite ats-34 in my backpacking kit. Now it's my edc. It's SHARP, fits my hand perfectly, virtually unnoticeable in my pocket, and construction is solid. No play between blade and body as with the Featherlite.
I'm guessing the J2 laminate is supposed to add some flexibility to the blade and as it is much softer steel, may be prone to scratching. Sharpening will be a chore but it still feels as sharp as the day it arrived.

One bladeforums poster suggested that spyderco was redefining ugly, one blade at a time. I was on that bandwagon until the Calypso arrived. Looks like Spyderco is producing other standards with this steel as well. I liked the Calypso so much that I popped for a Kershaw Leek titanium w/zdp steel. That blade is solid zdp, not laminated, and I've heard about the broken tips as well. So far my experience with ZDP blades has been positive, of course I haven't had to sharpen one yet!

The Calypso is one great knife at a decent price. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Pokerstud · May 18, 2007

shakeylegs said:
Pokerstud,
I bought one of these when the first run was produced hoping it was light enough to replace the AG Russell Featherlite ats-34 in my backpacking kit. Now it's my edc. It's SHARP, fits my hand perfectly, virtually unnoticeable in my pocket, and construction is solid. No play between blade and body as with the Featherlite.
I'm guessing the J2 laminate is supposed to add some flexibility to the blade and as it is much softer steel, may be prone to scratching. Sharpening will be a chore but it still feels as sharp as the day it arrived.

One bladeforums poster suggested that spyderco was redefining ugly, one blade at a time. I was on that bandwagon until the Calypso arrived. Looks like Spyderco is producing other standards with this steel as well. I liked the Calypso so much that I popped for a Kershaw Leek titanium w/zdp steel. That blade is solid zdp, not laminated, and I've heard about the broken tips as well. So far my experience with ZDP blades has been positive, of course I haven't had to sharpen one yet!

The Calypso is one great knife at a decent price. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

This is the positive I was hoping for, thank you.

Pokerstud · May 18, 2007

I just ordered it from Lighthound, so we'll see.............................

Thanks to the great replies I received, which help shed some light on my fence riding with this knife and the steel. :goodjob: :thanks: :grouphug:

Danbo · May 18, 2007

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and wager that you'll love the knife, and won't regret your decision one bit.

If you do, contact me and I'll trade you something for it.

Pokerstud · May 18, 2007

Danbo said:
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and wager that you'll love the knife, and won't regret your decision one bit.

If you do, contact me and I'll trade you something for it.

OK, we'll see. I should have it Monday. I'll post my thoughts here.

cryhavok · May 18, 2007

Just as some reinforcement, I have a Caly Jr. in ZDP-189...absolutely LOVE it. The fish scales on the handle are very very cool...leaf blade is awesome.

Some people report a little bit of blade wobble when the knife is closed. Mine maybe has an extremely small amount, but nothing to really be upset/worried about. Locks up rock solid.

The advantage of the ZDP steel is that it can hold a very narrow edge much better than VG-10, 440C, and the others. I believe this knife comes with a 12.5º edge on both sides, whereas most other spidies come with a 15º edge on both sides. I only wish my sharpmaker would allow me to sharpen to a smaller edge than a 15º bank so I could take full advantage of the harder steel.

Pokerstud · May 18, 2007

cryhavok said:
Just as some reinforcement, I have a Caly Jr. in ZDP-189...absolutely LOVE it. The fish scales on the handle are very very cool...leaf blade is awesome.

Some people report a little bit of blade wobble when the knife is closed. Mine maybe has an extremely small amount, but nothing to really be upset/worried about. Locks up rock solid.

The advantage of the ZDP steel is that it can hold a very narrow edge much better than VG-10, 440C, and the others. I believe this knife comes with a 12.5º edge on both sides, whereas most other spidies come with a 15º edge on both sides. I only wish my sharpmaker would allow me to sharpen to a smaller edge than a 15º bank so I could take full advantage of the harder steel.

Thanks for your input

cutlerylover · May 18, 2007

Congratulatiosn on your new knife purchase! If you have the time post a review when you get it! One thign I never hear about knives in reviews is how they feel in the users hands...I have had knives that perfomred great but didn't have that comfortabel feel when holding or usign it...but then again everyones hands are a bit different so this opinion can change from person to person...

Pokerstud · May 18, 2007

cutlerylover said:
Congratulatiosn on your new knife purchase! If you have the time post a review when you get it! One thign I never hear about knives in reviews is how they feel in the users hands...I have had knives that perfomred great but didn't have that comfortabel feel when holding or usign it...but then again everyones hands are a bit different so this opinion can change from person to person...

Jeff, I think thats important also. I'll do my best to write a review for the average working man who uses his knife on a daily basis. I have what I would call average size hands, a pair of medium sized gloves is a little snug but large are a little to big.

Joe Talmadge · May 18, 2007

Agree with the opinions above. In the hand, the thin, high-performance geometry of the blade is apparent. I don't think you'll be tempted to pry with this knife, you'll pretty much know that that is not what it's for. And after you see how it outcuts every other knife in your collection, you'll figure out what it is for! As stated above, it takes and holds a nice thin edge, but if you care about such things, the soft sides scratch more easily.

You ask me, this knife is one of the best achievements in all of knifedom!

Pokerstud · May 18, 2007

Joe Talmadge said:
Agree with the opinions above. In the hand, the thin, high-performance geometry of the blade is apparent. I don't think you'll be tempted to pry with this knife, you'll pretty much know that that is not what it's for. And after you see how it outcuts every other knife in your collection, you'll figure out what it is for! As stated above, it takes and holds a nice thin edge, but if you care about such things, the soft sides scratch more easily.

You ask me, this knife is one of the best achievements in all of knifedom!

Sounds great Joe, thanks.

Hans · May 18, 2007

Danbo said:
What that means is, this blade will stay sharp for a LONG time, before you need to sharpen it. Probably won't be a lot of fun to sharpen, but you've gotta expect that with a Rockwell that high.

This isn't quite correct. All modern sharpening materials are a lot harder than any knife steel. Sharpening is no problem at all when you use for instance diamond hones or a good ceramic stone. The Spyderco Sharpmaker also works very well with this steel. I actually changed the blade geometry on my Calypso Jr., making it even slimmer. I just used my DMT hones, and it was a quick and pretty easy job.

By the way, Spyderco usually runs their ZDP-189 blades at something like 63 to 64 RC, and these blades are in my experience a lot easier to sharpen than S30V or S60V. No real problems with burring, and the slim edge geometry also makes quite a difference when touching up the knife after a couple of days (or weeks) of use.

Hans

Pokerstud · May 18, 2007

Hans said:
This isn't quite correct. All modern sharpening materials are a lot harder than any knife steel. Sharpening is no problem at all when you use for instance diamond hones or a good ceramic stone. The Spyderco Sharpmaker also works very well with this steel. I actually changed the blade geometry on my Calypso Jr., making it even slimmer. I just used my DMT hones, and it was a quick and pretty easy job.

By the way, Spyderco usually runs their ZDP-189 blades at something like 63 to 64 RC, and these blades are in my experience a lot easier to sharpen than S30V or S60V. No real problems with burring, and the slim edge geometry also makes quite a difference when touching up the knife after a couple of days (or weeks) of use.

Hans

Thanks Hans, I'll keep this in mind.

leukos · May 19, 2007

Joe Talmadge said:
You ask me, this knife is one of the best achievements in all of knifedom!

This is quite a compliment from the knife sharpening guru!

Joe Talmadge · May 21, 2007

Heh, well deserved though!

CLHC · May 21, 2007

Check this site out and click on the ZDP189 where it'll take you down to that page. It details quite a bit of information plus the minor trivials associated with this material.

http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/blade_materials.html#S_ZDP189

Spyderco Calypso Jr / ZDP-189 steel / calling all experts

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