Need advice on emergency power generator purchase

CroMAGnet

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Hi all. My wife asked me to get us an emergency power generator . She mentioned that a propane model might be better than a gas model for storage purposes and ability to use the left over BBQ propane. Nawt sure if they even exist. All I've heard of is the Honda power generators. I think they're gas.

Anyway, we need to get one to last a couple of weeks to power some... hmmm what the heck will we power? rechargable flashlights, lamps, microwave , mini fridge is all I can think of plugging in at the moment. We were talking about being able to use the furnace and water heater if the gas is still able to be turned on. This sounds a lot more involved that I first thought.

Anyone care to share some idea's or experience?
 

robk

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Re: Need advice on emergency power generator purch

After last summer's hurricanes here in Florida, I'm also putting in a few generators for emergency power. I've researched the project and found out a few important issues.
First, I wanted a "whole house" propane powered 15kW (or 20 kW) generator. After talking to the few propane dealers here (not much propane used in FL), not one of them could gaurantee delivery at peak usage times (hurricanes). No propane means no power, and it's over $2.50 a gallon here. Check on the propane usage per hour on the big generators, you won't believe it - with 200 gallons of storage (maximum allowed by the county code in my area) I would need a delivery every 2 days if I used the generator at 50%. So that killed that idea.
Second, I realized that nothing can replace the electric service from the utility company, so I started to look at small effiecient models. My decision was to buy 2 Honda generator/inverters (2kW) for lighting, TV, and a portable A/C in the mother-in-law house on the property. The honda units are cheap to run, easy to service, and very quiet. Because they use an inverter, they throttle down when the load decreases, unlike a traditional gas generator that runs continuously at 3600 rpm to maintain a 60 Hz power source. The third unit will be a noisy, ugly, heavy, cheap Coleman 5kW, only run for 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the evening to power the deep well pump and possibly one hot water heater for showers and filling buckets for flushing the toilets. The rest of the time it will be turned off. They are impractical for any long term use, gas guzzlers and very frequent oil changes.

You mentioned you have natural gas - if it's still turned on. That can power the large "propane" generators (at a reduced kW output), but the cost is very high, and depending on the "disaster" that you are preparing for, if there is no gas or a pipeline is broken, you're dead in the water.

I made it through last summer's hurricanes (total 11 days w/o power) with a 700 watt 12V to 120VAC inverter hooked to my wife's SUV. At least I had a fan, TV, coffee maker and minimal lighting. I charged AA's for flashlights with a Maha charger with a cigarette lighter adapter in my car. We used a lot of gas idling the SUV, but better than having no power.

Good luck! Look at the Honda EU2000i, less than 50 lbs, quiet, inverter type generator, up to 15 hours on a gallon of gas with light usage. Under $1000.

Rob
 

robk

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Re: Need advice on emergency power generator purch

I forgot to mention the propane unit that I almost bought was a Generac Guardian, sold by Harbor Freight and others. Auto switch-over, nice unit, but like I mentioned, unless you've got fuel, it's not worth much.
Rob
 

powernoodle

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Re: Need advice on emergency power generator purch

I have a Craftsman 7.8HP 4200 Watt generator similar to this one, with about 40 gallons of gas on hand. You could always get some gas out of a vehicle if you need more. If you really need a generator (ice storm, hurricane, etc.), you likely won't be able to go and get some gas quickly. I have a little port installed in a basement window thru which I can run a cord from the generator to the inside of the house. 4200 watts is plenty to keep a space heater or two going, plus a few lights and a small tv, and I can cycle the fridge and freezer as needed. Since 09/01, I've become somewhat of a survivalist nut. A generator is part of that equation, but its much more likely to be needed after severe weather.

best regards
 

Rothrandir

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Re: Need advice on emergency power generator purch

theres quite a lot of information out there about building your own generator, even using "alternative" fuels...
might be something to look into /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif
 

Brock

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Re: Need advice on emergency power generator purch

I would strongly suggest the Honda EU2000i for the size, weight and noise issues; I think it is actually rated about 1600w continuous. You can parallel two of them for or double the power. If Diesel Dave chimes in he will tell you all about them.

It really depends on your needs though, 2kw will get you basically one full power outlet, 4kw is better, 15kw to 20kw to do a regular sized house as normal. I have a 5kw 240vac battery/inverter system with a 4kw gas genset feeding that, with a 120v 1000w older Yamaha and a 12v 600w genset and finally a connection to the front of the garage to charge my battery bank in a pinch from an idling car.
 

Pydpiper

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Re: Need advice on emergency power generator purch

I have a 5000 watt Honda in my garage, I Installed an rv plug on the outside wall. My circuit panel is wired so I can input my generator into specific circuits and power them up.
I isolated my furnace fan(gas), my fridge, main kitchen light,2 chest freezers and livingroom (tv, sattellite, stereo)
When the power goes out there is an override beside my circuit panel that insures I don't backfeed power back onto the grid (very important), fire up the generator, plug it into the wall and enjoy. Home Depot carries a good line of manual override switches, and there are others out there that have some pretty cool stuff.
If you plan on hooking it to your Circuit panel and you arn't 100% sure what your doing then hire an electrician..
The only thing I have to do different when I use the generator is switch my furnace fan to "on" instead of "auto" Starting a motor (fan, fridge, freezer) requires a lot more power than it does to run, so once its going its fine.
Smaller generators offer a portability option too..
 

paulr

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Re: Need advice on emergency power generator purch

Running an electric heater from a gas powered generator is woefully fuel-inefficient. Better to just get a gas powered heater.

Trying to keep 20 kw of electric appliances running through a hurricane also sounds like asking a bit much. There's likely to be a fuel shortage going on too. Best to just use what you need to. I'd say that includes powering the fridge so the food doesn't spoil; a few lamps (CF bulbs preferred); the TV set to keep up with current news and/or keep the kids pacified; battery chargers for your flashlights, furnace starter if you're in a cold climate; another thing or two like that and you're set. Hot water should come from bottled propane if possible. A/C is mostly a creature comfort unless required for health reasons, especially A/C for the whole house. When I was a kid we had A/C in one room in the house so we all gathered there on very hot days; that worked out fine. That doesn't seem like too big a problem in a hurricane.

I think of getting a generator sometimes, and go back and forth between wanting a very portable 1kw unit, or a somewhat less portable 2kw unit. I rarely use more than 2kw when the power is working, so I certainly shouldn't need more than that in an outage. I can live without my microwave til the power comes back on.
 

LitFuse

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Re: Need advice on emergency power generator purch

Honda EU series all the way... The 2000 is the best unit in my opinion. Trying to run your whole house from a genset is really not very practical, unless money is no object. Whole house solutions are very expensive, both in inital outlay, and also in the fuel to keep them running.

For all practical purposes, the run of the mill 5kW unit from the local big box store, is a loud, crude, gas guzzling POS. If you can afford a nice 1800RPM diesel unit, well that's a different story.

You're much better off using one or two of the EU Hondas to power the stuff that you really "need". These generators are super quiet, and super efficient. I used these with great results for the 2+ weeks that I was without power this summer due to hurricane Charley. Gas was hard to come by, and lots of people with the guzzlers could not find the fuel to run them. The Hondas are not cheap, but they are worth the price.

It's all a matter of perspective I've found. When the power is on, people would crap themselves at the mention of what the 2kW Honda cost. When the power has been off for a couple of days (and gas is as scarce as gold) these same people would have happily paid twice as much for the Honda. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Peter
 

paulr

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Re: Need advice on emergency power generator purch

Yeah, I like those Hondas too. I just am not sure of needing 2kw instead of the lower cost and easier portability of the 1kw version.

Right now I'm running two 25 watt CF bulbs, the laptop computer I'm typing on plus the DSL modem and router connected to it, a laser printer on standby, and a second laptop that I was using earlier and should power off now. This is probably about 120 watts total, about 100 if I shut off the other laptop. I do have a Peltier fridge that uses around 50 watts but it's not plugged in right now. A typical household fridge (I don't use mine) might need 100 watts when running. A full sized TV set or a NiMH high speed battery charger, might add another 50 watts.

A multi-person household might want to run a few more lights and appliances than I do, but it still looks like 1kw covers all the essentials. 2kw makes it possible to use a microwave, which I guess would be a real convenience, but not a necessity. I guess it could also run an A/C, but I probably would avoid that in a potentially long outage, unless I had unlimited fuel.
 

LitFuse

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Re: Need advice on emergency power generator purch

Hey Paul, do you like coffee? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Peter
 

paulr

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Re: Need advice on emergency power generator purch

Peter, yeah, I don't have an electric coffee pot though, so a big generator wouldn't help with that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. If the gas is out I currently have no way to cook. I figure I'll get a camp stove sooner or later.
 

LitFuse

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Re: Need advice on emergency power generator purch

Paul- for the cost difference (about $250) and the weight difference ( around 15# ) I'd recommend going with the EU2000 over the 1000. It just gives you more options and flexibility. That full size fridge uses about 1.5A when running, but needs about 15A to "start". Since the EU's throttle up to meet the load, there is no gas consumption penalty to the 2000 either, which is really cool.

Peter
 

cy

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Re: Need advice on emergency power generator purch

running 5700 Honda w/11hp intelligent controls for whole house operation. 1,000 watt Yamaha for small jobs w/long runtimes.

We've got huge trees in my neighborhood, which translates into frequent power outages during storms.

Seems to me if you need a small portable unit, then the $1,000 price tag for 2,000 watt Honda may be justified. but for most home backup use a slightly heavier 2,500 watt unit may cost 1/2 that with a good overhead valve motor.
 

James S

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Re: Need advice on emergency power generator purch

At some point I hope to have it in the budget to do this on a big scale too.

I also really like the idea of a propane generator. The propane doesn't go bad, you can bury the tanks, you can start with a couple of grill tanks which are cheap and as budget allows in the future you can add more larger tanks under ground. i like that idea. There are big problems with long term storage of gas or diesel that propane doesn't suffer from. But a grill tank wont run a big one for very long at all.

The other place really not to skimp on is the wiring and transfer switch. Frankly I am surprised at how expensive the transfer switch is! But the electric company is very very picky about how you connect a generator up.

Something to consider also is that a big enough generator that will let you run an AC unit or 2 will keep your home from filling with black mold if there is some flooding. If you actually get hit and can run the AC you will save back your original investment in a larger system and then some.
 

Chris_Medico

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Ok.. Here is my opinion on this stuff...

If you want an automatic backup with very low maintenance then LP/NG is the only way to go.

If you don't mind being frugal on power then a portable inverter based generator will be the best overall value and by far more fuel efficient over the LP/NG.

If cost is no object, Diesel...

Here is how it breaks down and why..

LP and NG - This is the best option if you don't like maintenance and such. LP/NG burns very cleanly and there is no residual fuel in a carb to gunk up everything. Changing the oil is about the extent of the maintenance. The down side is fuel cost. They will cost much more per unit of electricity to run in comparison to gasoline or diesel. They will be medium on the equipment cost scale.

Diesel - This is the best option if you expect to need it regularly. The fuel cost is the lowest of the bunch per unit of electricity. The more you run it the cheaper this one will be. Diesel fuel is also more stable than gasoline so its not as likely to gunk up everything. If you get a good water cooled diesel setup it will last a lifetime. Equipment cost will be the highest of any of the other options. If you are in a freezing area be sure to get the cold weather kit or the fuel can gel on you.

Portable inverter based generators - For the average home owner this is the best compromise of equipment cost and operating cost. You can connect 2 of these generators together to get more output. They are very fuel efficient and quiet. They generally come in only the 120v flavor but if you really need 240v it can be arranged via a transformer. The equipment cost will be less than LP/NG or Diesel. Automatic changeover is possible but not recommended. If you need something only every year or so this one would get my vote. Gas can be a problem if left in the generator so be sure to have a way to drain it between uses or use a good fuel stabilizer.
 

CroMAGnet

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Re: Need advice on emergency power generator purch

Wow. Thanks for all the great advice. really! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I will print all of this stuff and figure out the options for us. Thanks everyone /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grouphug.gif
 

paulr

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Re: Need advice on emergency power generator purch

Chris, yes, thanks for the excellent post. Good point about fuel gunking up.

I don't feel really likely to buy a generator unless I have some non-emergency use for it. I have enough flashlights and batteries in this place to go without AC-powered lighting for a long long time, and I have a few portable radios which can get news updates. I don't use a TV or fridge (but that's just me), and in a prolonged power outage my internet connection will probably be out too, and I can survive without using the computer. In a prolonged-outage situation I might think about getting one of those 15 minute NiMH chargers with a 12VDC power cord, so I could charge the batteries in a vehicle.
 

CJR

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Re: Need advice on emergency power generator purch

Anyone have an idea of how many pounds of desiccant that I would need to open per day to compensate for a lack of AC and therefore the lack of dehumidification for a 2000 sq. ft. home in Tampa if I only ran the frig, ceiling fans and lights on the generator /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif?
 

KevinL

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Re: Need advice on emergency power generator purch

Sorry for the off topic.. what problems does humidity cause?

I live in the tropics, and it's 90-100% relative humidity all year round, and don't run climate control most of the day (leave the windows open, let the breeze in). Nothing seems to have suffered from that, mold only grows on bread if you leave it out too long.
 
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