Possible NYC Transit Strike 12/15-now on strike as of 12/20

jtr1962

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I starting this thread in case any CPFers might be visiting New York in the coming week. The MTA and the TWU are still miles apart. The talks will probably go down to the wire regardless but if there is no settlement on a new contract there may be a strike. What this means if you're planning to visit the city is that getting around will be a lot slower and harder. The subways and buses will not be running at all. The commuter railroads will be running but they aren't as comprehensive as the subways. The roads will be clogged of course. The strike contingency plans call for only letting only autos with more than one occupant into Manhattan. Your best bets to get around will probably be walking and biking. Cabs are an option as well, but don't expect them to be much faster than walking with the expected traffic.

I'll keep this thread updated with strike news as needed.
 
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cobb

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Re: Possible NYC Transit Strike 12/15

I heard some of the afternoon folks on FOX NEWS talk about it. They said something about a slow down today. Something to the effect the trains were running at 5mph. This was at least what Smith and Skinner were saying, then the weather lady joined in.

I cant imagine living in NY from seeing it on tv. I would have some E Bike I would use to get around.

I hope it goes well.
 

carrot

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Re: Possible NYC Transit Strike 12/15

I hope there's no strike... I'll probably end up biking to school. And given that it's been pretty cold the past few days, I'll look like the Stay Puft Marshmellow man on a bike.
 

jtr1962

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Re: Possible NYC Transit Strike 12/15

cobb said:
I heard some of the afternoon folks on FOX NEWS talk about it. They said something about a slow down today. Something to the effect the trains were running at 5mph. This was at least what Smith and Skinner were saying, then the weather lady joined in.
Rule book slow down. Apparently there's some old rules still on the books about entering a station at 5 mph (they usually come in at 40 to 45 and brake hard to stop by the end of the platform). Anyway, if they're following the old (obsolete) rule to the letter it will really be slowing down service even if they go normal speed in between stations. And BTW, I'm sure they're probably going well under the speed restrictions even between stations instead of at or slightly above them as they usually do.
 

matt_j

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Yes it is shot down. No buses or trains. Way to go stranding close to 30000 people in pre christmas season. Traffic is still ok but it will get bad soon. At it is 18 degrees outside. Ambulances will be stuck unable to provide care, homeless who live on the trains will be on the street freezing to death, people cant get to work, people who work for others: nurses, post(wo)men, POs, oil workers, etc, etc will be stuck or late.

And all the workers hide behind the union.
 

DieselDave

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I wrote a long post but deleted it because it will just get others agitated. I will just say this. If I owned a company and my employees voted in a Union I would close the doors forever the very next day so to save myself a long slow death.
 

Silviron

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Ditto D Dave.

As I understand it, this strike is illegal.... Violates The Taylor Act or something like that.

Strikers can be fined two day's pay for every day they are out.
 

Mags

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Yep silviron, the strike is illegal, and it does violate the taylor act. Also, I read something about 25K fines to workers who walk off the job. There was a strike today, which is why I am typing this. 2 hour delay, I have about an hour till school....
 

carrot

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Well, looks like I'm going to be riding my bike into school today. Brrr.

Merchants in the city are going to be pissed today. Taxi drivers will be ecstatic.
 

nerdgineer

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People can say what they will about traffic and congestion in LA, but at least the cars won't form a union here and all decide to stop working at once unless we buy them spinner wheels...
 

jtr1962

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I wrote this about the strike on another forum but its relevant to this thread:

Lots of rights and wrongs on both sides here. Let me start with the MTA. The MTA is wrong to not treat their workers with some respect. That costs virtually nothing. Workers shouldn't have to ask 30 days in advance to get a day off. Workers shouldn't be brought up on disciplinary charges for violating minor, unsafety-related work rules. The MTA should be more transparent about its finances. The workers shouldn't have to contribute to their health plan because the nature of their job means they are far more likely to get sick or injured than an office worker, for whom asking contributions for health care I wouldn't consider unreasonable. As for wages, there should be regular automatic increases to keep pace with inflation. That shouldn't even have to be negotiated with each contract.


Now the union has done its share of wrongs also. For starters it needs to be realistic about pensions. That means retirement at age 65 to 70 like everyone else, not 55, and the new plan should apply to everyone, not just new workers (multitiered plans are inherently unfair). Fact is that the MTA needs to get its pension costs under control regardless of any supposed surplus. Next, I don't like the talk of "selling out the unborn". It's the MTA's right to assign its workers to whatever duties are needed, and to eliminate certain positions as it deems necessary. Indeed, as a public agency the MTA is obligated to keep costs as low as possible even though the reality is often different. The union seems to think that the MTA is an employment agency not only for present members, but for their children as well. Long term by being inflexible regarding job descriptions the union will only shoot itself in the foot. I have no doubt that the installation of CBTC systemwide will be accelerated. First token clerk positions will be eliminated entirely, followed by conductors. Once the public is comfortable with the idea of unmanned trains, and the idea proves itself, the train operators will go as well. The union will have nobody but itself to blame for this by making labor costs unsustainable. They may yet win this particular battle, but ultimately they'll lose the war. Even longer term, things like station cleaning and car maintenance may be done by robots. Cops may one day be the only humans you see on the system on a regular basis in the future. The union can try to get better conditions for its current workers, but ultimately they can't force the MTA to keep a certain number of workers.


As for public sympathies, had the union postponed the strike until after New Year's they would have had a lot more of it. This was another collosal mistake. I'm hearing calls by some riders for firing the workers as Reagan did with the air traffic controllers. Without the public on their side, the union will ultimately lose. You have to look at it this way-many of the subway riders make $12, $10, some even $1 an hour, and often with no health benefits, no paid holidays, no pension, and much harder working conditions than most MTA workers. They're not likely to be sympathethic to people making 2 or 3 times per hour what they do, and with a benefit package easily worth as much as their salaries.


My predictions-the union will get slapped down hard, the workers will get a lesser package than what the MTA's last offer was, and this will be the beginning of the end for what's left of organized labor in the US. There are a lot of global reasons for this. The US cannot remain competitive on the world stage with workers under traditional union contracts. The continual shedding of jobs by the automakers is a great example of this. Sad to say, but until wages and working conditions come up in the countries the US is competing with, it's going to be all downhill for all workers, not just those in unions. Protectionism, which is essentially what unions are at this point, didn't work in the past and it won't work now. People will have to get used to working harder for less, and retiring later, if at all. Entrepreneurship will remain the one best path to elevating oneself. The idea that you can do so also in a civil service job, or any job, is just about dead. Face it, nobody ever got rich working for someone else.
 

jtr1962

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nerdgineer said:
People can say what they will about traffic and congestion in LA, but at least the cars won't form a union here and all decide to stop working at once unless we buy them spinner wheels...
Maybe not, but when two or more of them decide to "merge", the resulting mess can tie up traffic for hours, and with no real alternative to driving you just have to grin and bear it. I may not like the idea of a strike now, but the last one was 25 years ago. It's well worth the very occasional inconvenience to avoid the everyday hassle of driving.

BTW, my mom was working for the MTA during the last strike, and the fines are no idle threat. She got fined for 20 days pay for striking 10 days so the first month she was back she worked for free. Even if she wanted to cross picket lines, the subways were shuttered. I'm sure quite a few workers don't agree with this strike but have no option to work at this point.
 

JasonC8301

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jtr1962 said:
You have to look at it this way-many of the subway riders make $12, $10, some even $1 an hour, and often with no health benefits, no paid holidays, no pension, and much harder working conditions than most MTA workers. They're not likely to be sympathethic to people making 2 or 3 times per hour what they do, and with a benefit package easily worth as much as their salaries.

Agree with all points, BUT I only partially agree with this one. Yes, some jobs pay less and offer less benefits but after seeing the work that needs to be done sometimes, I don't even want to work for the MTA.

All we can do now is wait for the outcome.
 

*Bryan*

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There is a lot of issues with this strike that aren't in public view. I for one believe they should've struck.. As far as abadoning the city around the holidays, you could say that to the MTA as well. They should've been more forthcoming.

Again, any agency that has 2 sets of books to hide a 1 billion dollar surplus, I wouldn't trust.

In a strike, everbody loses!
 

Mags

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The carpooling rule just makes it worse. my friend's mother works in manhattan, so she cant get into the city and his father is gone to the Phillipines for something, so they are left without a source of income.
 

DieselDave

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First the MTA making a big profit should have nothing, zero, nada to do with what the transit workers are paid. If it were the case then Union workers should also share in the loss when there is one but you don't see that happen until the approach of bankruptcy and then begrudgingly. The mindset of "you're making money so pay me more" is so short sighted but everyone seems to feel that way. GM and United Airlines is a perfect example. When they were making huge profits there came the Union with their hand outstretched demanding to share in the profit. Over the last few years did the Union come offer to take pay and benefit cuts, hell no they didn't want to share in the loss, only the profit. It was only when GM was about to go to the courts on the brink of bankruptcy did the Union make any concessions.

As far as what the workers themselves make. I believe I read a bus driver in New York makes $45,000-$55,000 a year. With a 40-hour work week and assuming two weeks paid vacation, knowing the Unions it's probably more. (I'll leave their sick leave, maternity leave and personal days as time off out of the equation and just call it a perk) With an average pay of $50k a year that equals $25.00 an hour to drive a bus or subway but once you include benefits and actual time worked, it's far higher. That's pretty sporty pay for semi-skilled work. It's about the same kind of money the GM union workers make.

Now they want an 8% a year pay raise. I say give it to them! Keep giving it to them until MTA starts losing money and then give them an 8% pay cut every year MTA loses money. Also raise MTA's profit margin requirement by 8% a year to adjust for inflation. Keep half of the workers pay raise money in a fund until retirement age. The worker is now a partner, if they quit because of any future pay cuts they lose the money in the fund. Adjust it quarterly so neither party gets too far ahead or behind. I wonder if the Union would agree to that deal? Easy answer, NO. The Union's essentially want all the benefits of being a partner in a business with none of the liability. It doesn't take a genius to see that doesn't work.

Bottom line, they are breaking the law and should be hammered whether they are right or wrong. If it's so bad they should quit. They want to retire at 55, guess what, we all do but it ain't happen'in for us. If I live to and then retire at 70 I will feel very fortunate. Given the chance the greedy Union will force it's members right out of a job. The corruption, and lack of productivity by organized labor is astounding.

Want some real data? Look at Southwest Airlines, non union and one of the others like, Delta or United. Southwest uses less people to turn their planes around during a stop and completes the turnaround in less time. That's less people, less time, which equals less cost and happier customers. Southwest is profitable and the Union airlines are not, hmmm.

I know the old adage the country needed unions back in the day… Well, we are no longer back in the day and big unions are killing us now.

For those of you in a union that disagree all I can say is maybe I would feel different if I were part of a union but from the outside it looks reeealll bad.
 
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matt_j

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That's what keeps me comming back to the cafe... People who speak their minds without moderators locking the thread worrying about being pc (as opposed to other places)... Everyone has an opinion that should be heard. It doesn't matter if your mind about an issue is changed or not but at the end of the discussion both sides shoud hear the argument. And yes sometimes internet arguments get ugly but writing something down gives someone a chance to be heard.
 

Silviron

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By so inconveniencing 'normal' people who otherwise may be sympathetic to unionism in general, it will turn many people against them.

The publicity of their (the transportation workers) already GREAT pay and benefits for a modrate to low skilled job that requires no advanced education and little training is going to make the guy working his posterior off for $8 -10-12- $15 an hour go 'Hmmm" why do they deserve that kind of money and benefits and I don't.... Creating more resentment to unions.

I don't see this strike as being a bad thing in the long term at all.

My sympathies to people who absolutely rely upon government and unions for their ability to earn a living..... Maybe they will learn something from this.
 
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