Flashlight vs. Dog?

How effective is shinning a bright light into the eyes of an aggressively approaching dog. Any one has first hand or second hand experiences?

redduck said:

. . .aggressively approaching dog. Any one has first hand or second hand experiences?

Click to expand...

How about running away as fast as you can. Back in my prime of my youth, I could outrun a dog(s), but now, I don't know. . .There's going to be some comments as to how effective or ineffective a flash of light can be on an aggressive dog towards you.

You must be really fast to outrun even an average dog, I know I am not. Besides I am not sure it's a good idea to run away from a dog.

I was a sprinter on my school track team. Dogs used to laugh at me as they trotted by.

This is the one time I might recommend the Tigerlight. Better yet a Gladius + a can of Bodyguard.

I grew up in an area that was "infested" with pit-bulls. So I don't really know about dogs much other than to "stay away!" The only dog that caught me was my grandfather's German Shepherd. That dog took me down! So, YES, I know about not running, but couldn't help it when you're young and acting on adrenaline charged emotional impulse. He he he. . .

If the stories on the Surefire site are to be believed, yes, they work. Doesn't faze my cat, though, he just closes his eyes, looks away, and keeps gnawing on my leg.

Does a can of fly spray work on attacking dogs or does it just tick them off more?

I believe that running away only triggers the dog's hunting instincts...

My experience is the bright lights have no effect of aggressive dogs. Pepper spray can sometimes effect dogs. I wasted half a can one night keeping two Rotwillers off of me on an night time alarm call. I sprayed and backed up several times before the owner eventually called the dogs. Didn't want to shoot the dogs. I have shined Streamlights on several aggressive dogs with no effect.

just did a quick search.

Olympic runner - top speed is about 27 mph.

Greyhound - top speed is about 45 mph. A greyhound can hit it's top speed within 3 strides.:huh:

Granted not all dogs are greyhounds (which are the fastest dogs) - but then not all people are olympic runners...

I wouldn't bet on winning a race against a dog.

Shining a light into the dog's eyes at night may temporarily blind them - and buy you time. I've seen dogs at the dog park run into trees at night... It's pretty funny - unless it's your dog.

LarryC - I just clicked on your link to see your light collections. It's AMAZING... :wow:

i highly doubt a light is going to do anything to a dog. i've shined by 55watt spotlight on my rott mix and he is not fazed by it at all.

instead, a 4d maglite waved in a very aggressive/threatening manner will scare all but the most ferocious dogs. and there is no way in hell anyone is going to outrun a decent sized dog, i.e. anything besides toy chihuahua or of the like. maybe if it had three legs! my rott mix can run about 25mph for about 1/4 mile and 20mph for about 3/4 mile. no way any human can approach that and he isn't even special.

CHC said:

How about running away as fast as you can. Back in my prime of my youth, I could outrun a dog(s), but now, I don't know. . .There's going to be some comments as to how effective or ineffective a flash of light can be on an aggressive dog towards you.

Click to expand...

I'd suggest this is really bad advice on both counts.

Running can trigger the prey instinct. This will vary from breed to breed as well as the dog's background.

In general, dogs are MUCH faster than people.

Don't panic. Talk calmly to the dog, avoid making direct eye contact and slowly move away.

I'd say the most importaint thing you can do to protect yourself is to learn more about them and get some hands on experience with larger dogs.

As an owner of larger dogs, it is interesting to see people's reaction to large dogs. I had a large black lab who recently passed away, who went everywhere with me since our company lets us take them to work. This allowed me to observe a lot of strangers reactions in all sort of settings.

Sophie was the most calm, steady and friendly dog you'd ever meet. If someone broke through my bedroom window while I slept she would probably go over and see if he wanted to pet her or if perhaps he had a treat for her.

Yet, I'd see people step back and with obvious alarm, and I've seen out of the corner of my eye darting nervious glances at her. We even had a mailman who mentioned that she looked at him with ill intent in her eyes (or something to that effect).

The funny thing is I know that look well. Sophie was too well behaved to outright beg, but she'd sit politely and look at you hoping to soften you up with her big brown eyes. It was her "look at me, I'm such a good dog, don't you want to give me a treat or pet me?" look.

What's my point? Just don't attribute to malice what you are unfamiliar with.

That said, dogs that are roaming the street are nothing to be taken lightly. If the dog is on the street, you have to assume it's owner (if any) does not take the responsibility of ownership seriously (and many owners don't understand dogs that well, anyway) and you have to assume that it might not be well socialized, etc.

Also, even with a reasonably raised dog, they have strong instincts. This varies somewhat from breed to breed and obviously from dog to dog. It is the dog's owner's responsibility to protect the dog from these instincts and make sure they don't get into situations that the dog doesn't understand (they are dogs after all, not people!) and thus gets in trouble. The sad part is the dog always pays the price.

For example, my guess is most bites are fear bites, not agression related bites. Although, you always hear bites as characterized as from "agressive" dogs.

The danger does go up when there is more than one dog, as the pack instinct really starts to kick in. You see this same type of behavior out of teenagers. You put a pack of them together, and you see behavior that any one of them would have not instigated.

Of course, there are some agressive dogs out there, and from spending a lot of time in the dog park, if I see a dog *looking* for trouble, you can bet it is a pit bull. I'm not sure how much of this is the dog's genetics, or shaped by the personality of the type of people attracted to the breed. I'm not saying there aren't good pit bulls out there, or good pit bull owners, but just that when watching a large number of dogs, this behavior jumps out of the background noise. In any case, there are agressive dogs out there, just like there are seriously bad people out there.

Ok, let's get this back on topic..

If you did have to defend yourself, I wouldn't put much stock in a flashlight. You might give it a shot prior to any other actions, perhaps it might distract it. If the dog is truely agressive and attacks (vs fear attacking), this is *not* going to stop or slow it down. Dogs are incredibly focused and it just isn't going to phase it.

Personally, I would use an escillation of force. Here is what I would could consider against a dog (in order) if I was out walking.

1) OC spray.
2) ASP baton. 6D Mag will substitute OK here.
3) Firearm.

-john

hquan said:

I believe that running away only triggers the dog's hunting instincts...

Click to expand...

That is 100% correct. You cannot run away without a high probability that they'll pursue. Then, your @ss is one juicy target.

Bright flashlights and pepper-gas (OC) MAY work... or fail. CN or CS teargas? Forget it.

Last year I was jumped by a stray pit bull. Fortunately, I had a SL Scorpion in one hand and OC in the other. Strobing the Scorpion held him back 3 to 5 feet, but he kept snarling, barking, coiled for a strike. I held my ground -- and douched him with the Fox OC. That attenuated his desire to sniff my, umm, testicular fortitude.

So far, I've used OC on dogs (3 times with success) and teargas and/or OC on humans (5 times).

With the humans, the CS teargas failed... and only my .38 in his face stopped the $hitbird from cutting me up. (I didn't know about the 21-foot rule back then.) At another "event," the OC didn't stop the punk until 5-10 seconds after he'd nailed me with a sucker punch. Three other times (w/humans) the OC worked fine. Made 'em instantly curl up like a prune.

-->> A flashlight to temporarily disorient/stun vision PLUS a squirt of OC (in the face) is a much safer bet than lumens alone.

Like humans, animals have varying pain thresholds and motivational levels... all subject to adrenaline and (with humans) the presence of drugs/alcohol.

There are many cases where OC or bright light failed to stop both dogs AND humans. I've been relatively lucky.

TonkinWarrior said:

That is 100% correct. You cannot run away without a high probability that they'll pursue.

Click to expand...

Oh, it should probably be underscored that once this happens (you kick in that prey drive), they get a big shot of adrenalin. You just don't turn it back off. At this point you've pretty well hosed yourself.

-john

Speaking about aggressive dogs. . .Today a Fremont (California) Police Officer was attacked by 5 Chihuahuas. He had to go to the hospital for ankle injuries. Those little ones can sure sink their teeth now can they!

John N:

We're in debt to you for that great post (above) about understanding Dogs. May I suggest that CPF'ers refer future inquiries on this occasional topic to this thread... and your specific post.

As an old "dog person" from way back, it has genuinely pained me to need to use flashlights and/or OC gas on dogs a few times. Friends have speculated that maybe my body emits some wierd pheremone or something that makes most dogs want to "be my buddy." (Or, perhaps I just have dog-breath!)

A friend once spent thou$and$ of $$ training his young, well-bred German Shepherd to be a super guard/protection dog. Knowing my affinity for dogs -- but warning me about this dog's latent ferocity -- he reluctantly agreed to let me "meet" this special animal.

At the instant we "met," the killer-dog sniffed my hand, whined, licked my face, then rolled over on his back at my feet!

My slack-jawed friend could only say "I give up!"

Maybe one lesson here is that "scary looking" dogs may not always be a genuine threat. Much depends on your attitude and "presence." Animals can often sense whatever fear -- or friendship -- you project. On numerous occasions, while we've been out for a walk, I've had neighborhood dogs break away from their owners and make a dash toward me. I've simply "charmed" them by getting down on a knee, offering my hand, talking nicely -- and letting them slobber and paw away! (And I'll never wash my face again...)

I'm sorry to hear of your black Lab Sophie's demise. I once had a white lab that lived to 17. The last 6 months she was blind and crippled, so we had to carry her outside for her "business." Agonizing decision to put her down. More recently, we had to put down our great tomcat (my writing buddy AND the neighborhood mouse-muncher) on a two-hour notice. Vet said he had terminal congestive heart failure. That brought tears to our house for weeks.

Yep, there are a helluva lot more bad dog OWNERS than bad dogs out there.

And I bought OC spray only for the purpose of spraying aggressive dogs... :huh: I guess I'll go for the expendable baton soon.

I walk at night and have been bothered by several dogs over the years. I can't speak to how agressive they were but my QIII has stopped all the dogs that have bothered me since I obtained it.

The reflected light from their eyes show up the one or two I expect at great distances and they will stop at least 25-30 feet away.
Two or more dogs are a problem because they will try to get behind you.

Note all these events have taken place with no street lights within at least .1 mile.

Mike Painter said:

I walk at night and have been bothered by several dogs over the years. I can't speak to how agressive they were but my QIII has stopped all the dogs that have bothered me since I obtained it.

Click to expand...

I think it is pretty safe to say these were not agressive dogs, which is not to say your actions (including the use of the flashlight) didn't prevent the situation from becoming more serious.

-john