Fun with computer hardware and support

ABTOMAT

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Just thought a few of you guys might appreciate this. I think we all have these kind of things happen now and then. A friend of a friend has had Verizon DSL (with basic modem/gateway) for about a year. At the time he also got a Dell router but he couldn't get it to work. He finally wants a wireless network, so I take a shot at getting things going over last weekend.

First day: Set up router and modem. Configs go fine but the modem no longer connects to DSL. Finally works after several resets, then stops again. More fiddling like this until it's working properly. I go home. Get call that it stopped working that night.

Second day: Found more settings on Verizon's page to try. More fiddling and resets, same deal. Determine that the modem isn't storing settings, just going back to default. Make weekday appointment.

Third day:
Call 1, Verizon tech support says that the modem is having a problem but there's a workaround. Try workaround, connection starts working. Then stops, turns out it still didn't save the settings.
Call 2, support has me go through all the stuff I've already tried, then says the router isn't supported. I convince them that the modem's problems are unrelated. Support guy tries a few more things then tells me that the problem is that the modem isn't storing settings. Thanks, that helps. Support guy then says Verizon doesn't support their modems (which I knew was BS) and to call Westell for a warranty replacement.
Call 3, on hold for about an hour to Westell, all the while hearing a recorded message saying "if you're a Verizon customer, we'll have your head on a platter" or something along those lines. Finally get an agitated guy who I convince not to hang up on me. He says Verizon is nuts, the modem's warranty ran out six months ago, and they wouldn't support it anyway.
Call 4, tell Verizon tech my story and she says the other Verizon guy really was nuts. Also says the warranty is out and to talk to sales. Get transfered to wrong sales, then right sales. Sales has a hard time believing I'm calling for a client. Finally get that straightened out and everything else is smooth sailing.

In the end, he's getting a new Verizon/Westell modem/router combo unit to avoid any Dell issues. But man, what a lot of treading water for a simple problem.
 

gadget_lover

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Yeah, sort of reminds me of the problem I have every time there's a problem. I Pac Bell DSL and Comcast Cable but I use Linux systems and own my own router and firewall.

Talking to tech support will take one of two paths. A typical call goes like this.... (TS = Tech Support)

TS: Are you using windows or Mac?
Me: Neither. It's linux.
TS: Oh. Sir I am sorry we don't support linux.
Me: That's OK, I do. It's a line problem anyway. Can you test the line.
TS: First you must reboot the DLS modem. (helpfully) Is it a westell modem? The switch is on the back.
Me: No, it's a Zyxel modem, and I've already power cycled it. Can you run a line test, Please?
TS: Please to wait one moment..... (10 second pause)
Scenario 1) Click. Buzzzzzzzz
Scenario 2) TS: I'm sorry sir but I can not test your line.
Me: Why not?
TS: The computer says there's an outage in your town.



Some days it's just not worth it.

Me: can you jsut test the line? The DSLAM appears to be jammed up again.
TS: Are you using windows or Mac?
Me: (sigh) Win 98
TS; You must reboot the system
Me: Just a minute, it's rebooting... Pause. It's back.
TS: (suspisciously) That was fast.
Me: Yeah. The latest patch sure made things faster.
TS: Oh. OK....Please to Press start, run, and type winipcfg
Me; Ok. It's showing the right address, mask and gateway. The DNS server is correct too. It's showing no errors on the ethernet interface.
TS: OK.... Please hold while I test your line.
Me: Thanks. Please call me back if we get disconnect....Click Buzzzzzzz


Sadly, I had to do the same thing with my cell phone recently. It was working fine, and suddenly lost text messaging after daily use for 3 years.

TS: So you can't get text messages?
Me: Yes. It stopped working yesterday.
TS: Ok, lets check your software version. (rattles off instructions)
Me: I have 2.3.12
TS: OH. YOu have to have at least 2.3.14. 2.3.12 is obsolete.
Me; But it worked last week.
TS: Sorry, I can't help. You have to go to the service center to upgrade the software.
Me: Can you at least check your end's configuration?
TS: Sorry, I can't help.
Me; Just a moment, Ohhhh My mistake. It IS 2.3.14 !! I must have misread it. What do we do next.
TS: Are you sure?
Me: (with a voice that dripped sugar) Yes, I must have misread it.
TS: Just a moment. ( 1 minute pause) Try it now.
Me: Yep, it works. Thanks.

Sigh

Daniel
 

Jumpmaster

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Friggin' MORE COWBELL!!!
That's nothing...

I talked for an hour and a half to DELL to RETURN a monitor to them AFTER they had provided a warranty replacement for our client...again, this was to RETURN the bad monitor so we didn't get billed for it.

Talked to three separate "departments" there.

...and then they didn't want to let me send it back because I couldn't verify the billing address of a different subcontractor (long story, but we have no reason to need to know their billing address...) I got it pretty close, so they "let" me return the monitor.

I will never buy a Dell product.

gadget_lover said:
TS; You must reboot the system
Me: Just a minute, it's rebooting... Pause. It's back.
TS: (suspisciously) That was fast.
Me: Yeah. The latest patch sure made things faster.

When a user pulls that crap with me, I ask them politely (really!) to call back when they're ready for us to help them. Click.

JM-99
 
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ABTOMAT

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My turn for a Dell story. Client across the street bought a new Inspiron 8500 (very flimsy widescreeen laptop) a couple years ago. Had nothing but trouble with it and so he bought a new Thinkpad last fall. Wanted me to have Dell overhaul the 8500 so he could give it to an employee.

I call up, get the Indian regiment, and explain the work needed (trackpad, keyboard, sleep button, case plastics). After a long conversation I get transferred to US (be thankful for small favors) business support. Explain the whole thing again, in greater detail. Set up a service job. Box arrives MUCH later than it should--the DHL guy shows me that above my address there was a whole other address listed in another town. They tried to deliver there first, luckily no one was home.

So before I send it back I call US Dell. On hold for about half an hour before I give up. Try the next day, same deal but I hang on the line and get someone. They say they have no record of that other address, but they must have since it didn't appear on anything after I talked to them. Laptop gets packed up, box goes back to Dell. Supposedly around three week backlog.

4 weeks later I call back, hang on hold forever. I ask about the repair status and get that they're just finishing up a second round or repairs since the first didn't work. Should be sent any day now. I have them change the address to one where I'll be reached during the day. Another hour on the phone.

A week or two later it comes back. Open it up, and I notice a great big, horribly printed (think runny mimeo machine) form letter saying I hadn't paid so they coughed back the laptop. While I'm wondering about that I check over the machine. Trackpad and keyboard are new, but the sleep button is still broken and now one of the hinge covers is broken.

So I call Dell yet again. Get put on hold about 11AM. Around 11:20 AM my elderly neighbor comes over and needs me to jumpstart his car. I leave the phone on hold and go out into the cold. After about half an hour of laboring over his reluctant DeVille I get it going and come back in, expecting to be disconnected. Nope! Still on hold! So it's about noon, and I'm halfway through making lunch. Finally a person comes on the line.

"What, what letter? We didn't have any payment issues." Then she asks me to describe the letter in detail, to the end that she had never seen one like that before. I explain the problems with the laptop and set up a new repair. DHL comes that day, laptop goes out with an express flag.

Next week it comes back. Everything's been replaced just like it should, only...a bunch of case screws are MISSING! Along with some rubber feet. At this point spending more time talking to Dell just wouldn't be worth it so I find some screws an feet in my pile and put it back together.

Total time was almost a couple months for this whole thing to play out. I spent a solid workday in all on hold. It wasn't even fixed properly. I still have my sanity only because of the mammoth bill I had to present the client (not just for this), although I don't think it had a similarly positive impact on said client.
 

IsaacHayes

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Yup. Basically anytime you call, its' going to be a headache. That's why I'll always search on line for others past experience with a product, so I can fix it on my own. Or find out how to get into such device myself.

Luckilly I have a cable modem that has no router/etc built into it, so adding my own equipment won't conflict.

I had to fix a brand new dell XPS (this thing had some serious hardware!) for someone because Dell tech support (in india) told her to use XP system restore when her internet went down. Then system restore (I've never seen that work for ANYONE) locked up and froze in the middle. She waited like a day before turning it off. Then of course windows won't load so tech support said it was because of some software she must have installed and that she'd have to pay to have someone work on it. I came and coulnd't even un-do the system restore from the windows CD so I had to wipe the HD and start over! She only had the sytem for a few days!! Her interent problem was just the satellite provider being flaky, no big deal!!

I had to return a new dell monitor a LONG time ago (96/97). I told them the anti-glare coating was coming off and that it made the pixels red/green/blue underneath and it was terrible. They swaped it out for a re-furbished one. Well that one was either dropped in shipping, or wasn't refurbished enough. Half of the screen had the phosphur knocked off and vertical streaks. I called them again and explained it, they told me to update my video card drivers and reboot/etc and I might have to re-isntall windows! I told them again that it wasn't a software issue, as it looked like that in dos and windows. That didn't work so I said hold on, I have my old pc here, let me hook it up to that to see, will that work? They were satisfied with that. Ok it's still messed up like I said, half the phospur/appature grill is screwed up. Ok sent that off. Got another used one, has 2 tiny specs that I'm used to now pitted in the glass, and the bottom right corner was purple and flickered for the longest time. That finally went away after years though. It's been fine now, and is one of the sharpest monitors, even compared to LCD I've used. There was a period where it would change colors like a gun was going out, but then it's been fine since then..... Now I don't clean anti-glare monitors with ANYTHING. I used water and a tea-towel cloth once and that seemed to not harm it. This anti-glare stuff is more fragile than gold leaf!!

EDIT: Oh yeah my system now was built by me. No extra crappy software installed, I know all the parts, and can get replacements and upgrades that are compatible and not proprietary. I'm not at the mercy of the vendor! I LOVE IT. Best PC I've used yet. I use www.newegg.com for all the parts, they rock!

The old dell I had, I ordered as bare as possible and put in my own sound/video card/hardware modem(runs in dos), and extra ram. It was hard enough trying to convince them that I did not want on-board audio, a win-modem/etc when I ordered it. They didn't have the stuff I wanted, so I went that route. It wasn't a bad system but cost nearly 3,000 almost as much as my 486 I had before that from gateway. I should of built my own then but didn't have the time or knowledge to pick out parts. I could of actually done it though if I put effort into it no doubt about it. I just didn't feel like messign with it all. This system I have built now only cost $800 and that was well over a year ago and it still is smoking!!
 
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Navck

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Everyone in my area "FANBOYS" dells
"OMG ITS A DELL!! DEWD ITS GOTTA BE FAST AND IT AINT SUCKY LIKE THOSE PCS"
:ohgeez::ohgeez::ohgeez:
Wrong, my T43 is faster than their XPS Gen 2, even if its a buisness laptop that looks plain and black.
Sad huh?
Funny part, people in my area complain about battery life (Hmmm, they've already cycled their battery packs 3000 times within the same week and haven't even reset the battery gauge... Hmmmmm)
Anyways, I never recomend anyone a Dell, horrid support
 

ABTOMAT

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Something similar to that laptop thing happened to a client once. She had a Gateway PC with Windows that developed a software boot issue. First they had her reformat the hard drive (bye bye data), didn't tell her to reinstall Windows properly, then sold her a new hard drive for three times the Staples price. I set up her new drive and used the old one in my own computer for several months.

I build (it's an ongoing thing, five years and counting) my PC from stuff bought off eBay and parts from customer trade-ins. "Dude, I don't know what the hell I'm getting"
 
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Navck

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My desktop is a weird mix of stuff
Athlon 64 +3200 (Modern)
ASUS A8N-SLI Premium (Modern)
Ballistix PC3200 512MBx2 (Modern)
Western Digital Raptor 36.7GB (Modern)
120GB Maxtor Diamond Max 9 (Submodern)
120GB Maxtor Diamond Max 8 2mb Cache (Old. It was "cutting edge" compared to the 40GB one when I had it)
Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum (Ancient. We're talking 2000 or before tech)
ASUS 7800GT (Ultra. Modern)
If I included the replaced and broken things, ancient desktop here we come!

Edit:Will post rest of system torrmow. Brain tired....
 
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raggie33

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i can never figure out how to get thru the computer thing that answers phone i get so mad i cuss at computer
 

Corrosion

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Gadget_lover said:

Me: can you jsut test the line? The DSLAM appears to be jammed up again.
TS: Are you using windows or Mac?
Me: (sigh) Win 98
TS; You must reboot the system
Me: Just a minute, it's rebooting... Pause. It's back.
TS: (suspisciously) That was fast.
Me: Yeah. The latest patch sure made things faster.
TS: Oh. OK....Please to Press start, run, and type winipcfg
Me; Ok. It's showing the right address, mask and gateway. The DNS server is correct too. It's showing no errors on the ethernet interface.
TS: OK.... Please hold while I test your line.
Me: Thanks. Please call me back if we get disconnect....Click Buzzzzzzz


Nowhere in here did you think that perhaps the guy on the phone knew you lied to him and then hung up thanks to your rude and sarcastic attitude? 1st tier ISP support staff are the lowest rung on the hellish ladder of tech support. While their job wouldn't be all that hard on paper, they get to deal with users who lie to them and feel persecuted that a white-board work technician is required to follow a basic call flow in order to help eliminate stupid mistakes.

Personally, I would have hung up on you if I were the tech too. Way to go.
 

AlphaKilo470

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I once had a Hewlett Packard OmniBook 800CT (really cool little machine, it's a laptop about the size of a textbook if not smaller) that I bought for $20 at a school fundraiser sale aobut two years back. Well, a few months after buying it, the BIOS goes kaput when the BIOS disk I have turns out to have a bad sector. Well, I tried using the HP online support chat which was nice at first as the personell got to me pretty fast but after I explained my problem, I was informed that I would have to send the computer to HP and pay over $400 to have fixed. I decided to say no thanks and end the chat. I liked that computer alot and was dissapointed by the loss but $400 to fix something I paid $20 is something I'll say "no thanks" to.
 

cobb

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I hate calling anyone any more. I ve worked in inbound call centers and combination in and out bound for sales/customer service.

Anyhoo, I got a free digital cell phone from tracwireless that dated back to 01. It came with a ten minute card. I wanted to transfer service from a phone i had where rebuilding the battery pack didnt wrk and it had terrible run time. I called into talk to someone. They had a ten second delay and if I didnt speak slowly they could not understand me. I would guess the person was in India.

It took about half an hour after holding talking slowly to this guy and repeating stuff back and forth as we kept making mistakes in the long string of digits you must read off and enter into the phone.

Anyway, got a case number and code to setup VM on the new phone. The VM code wouldnt work and text messaging neither. THe website was no help and got errors when trying to submit a case. When I tried accessing the case for the minute swap I get a message it can take 4-6 weeks. I sure hope 10 minutes will hold me til middle of February.

I continue to try calling and following up on having no VM or text messaging. Either the phone call is ended cause the high call volume once I push buttons to get to the dept needed, other times I get a message that due to high call volumes they cant help me.

Filed a BBB compliant. two days later someone emailed me. Two days of calling got person and within a few minutes both VM and text messaging were working. Now I hope 8 minutes will last me.

I cant speak for the tech call centers, but the ones I worked in are severly scripted and not following them can cause you to fail a call. Its more important on their end that you follow the scripts, read them verbratum than actually help the person. The call centers job is to just handle the calls, not necessarly help anyone.
 

gadget_lover

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Jumpmaster said:
gadget_lover said:
TS; You must reboot the system
Me: Just a minute, it's rebooting... Pause. It's back.
TS: (suspisciously) That was fast.
Me: Yeah. The latest patch sure made things faster.



When a user pulls that crap with me, I ask them politely (really!) to call back when they're ready for us to help them. Click.

JM-99


It's not a case of "pulling crap". I don't use windows for my systems, but I am a qualified tech and I understand computers, telephony and networks. I trouble shoot my stuff long before I call the poor tech who is saddled with an inept script that he must follow. As I said in my post, they don't need to support my system. I support it quite well.

Since I don't use windows, following a TS request to reboot will do no good. Since he is reading a script, I simply do the appropriate step for MY setup and feed him back answers that satisfy his script. Sometimes I get luck and get bumped to a second or third tier support person who is not constrained by scripts.

People in tech support should realize that some of us are at least as capable as their second tier support. We just don't have access to the tech support's terminal to check their equipment status, re-init settings or reset interfaces.

Daniel
 

gadget_lover

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Corrosion said:
Gadget_lover said:

Me: can you jsut test the line? The DSLAM appears to be jammed up again.
TS: Are you using windows or Mac?
Me: (sigh) Win 98
TS; You must reboot the system
Me: Just a minute, it's rebooting... Pause. It's back.
TS: (suspisciously) That was fast.
Me: Yeah. The latest patch sure made things faster.
TS: Oh. OK....Please to Press start, run, and type winipcfg
Me; Ok. It's showing the right address, mask and gateway. The DNS server is correct too. It's showing no errors on the ethernet interface.
TS: OK.... Please hold while I test your line.
Me: Thanks. Please call me back if we get disconnect....Click Buzzzzzzz


Nowhere in here did you think that perhaps the guy on the phone knew you lied to him and then hung up thanks to your rude and sarcastic attitude? 1st tier ISP support staff are the lowest rung on the hellish ladder of tech support. While their job wouldn't be all that hard on paper, they get to deal with users who lie to them and feel persecuted that a white-board work technician is required to follow a basic call flow in order to help eliminate stupid mistakes.

Personally, I would have hung up on you if I were the tech too. Way to go.

Personally, I have no idea why tech support disconnects are so common. It is rather disgusting to have it happen after being on hold for an hour and then transfered to a couple different people. It seems to happen most frequently when the call center is busy or the problem is complex.


Just for my education, I'd like to know exactly which of my words were rude and sarcastic? My tone in these situations are always neutral or pleasant, depending on the level of frustration. If they won't even try to help if I don't use Windows, why should I not play along as if I were doing as they ask? It does not hurt them in any way for me to play along, right?

I feel bad for the tech support people who forget that their job is to help the people who bought the product. As my dear late aunt used to say : "When you are dealing with the public It's important to remember that you are overhead, they are profit."


Daniel
 

James S

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While I always do my best to be polite and friendly to the folks on the phone, it is sometimes impossible ;)

Here's me talking to get the phone company to be aware that my ISDN line was down (this was not all that many years ago, but there was no DSL or cable to my area then)

Me: My ISDN connection is down, modem self tests check out OK but claim the line is dead on your end.
TS: what browser are you using?
Me: can't get that far, there is no internet connection at all
TS: It can really make a difference which browser your using!
Me: OK, (carefully not mentioning that I have a Mac so as not to give the poor support lady a heart attack) I have both installed, which would you like me to try?
TS: IE?
Me: OK, sure, launching IE, nope nothing. I'm pretty sure it's a line issue external to my house here.
TS: What kind of modem do you have?
Me: netopia something or other
TS: You're going to have to call them for support for your modem as I dont show any problems here.
Me: Modem claims to be fine, I can dial, but your end never picks up.
TS: I'm sorry, we can't support your modem you're going to have to call Netopia support.
Me: This has happened before, you have fixed it on your end.
TS: If there were problems at this end we'd be getting reports from lots of other people and everyone else seems to be fine.
Me: This has been down since 4:50pm on Friday, what did you guys do before leaving for the weekend? (it was now monday)
TS: wait... (speaking to someone walking by her cube) Hi gary... (blah blah blah blah can't hear her... Oh, OK... Our network tech just walked by, hold on a second.
Me: OK! (about 15 seconds pass)
TS: He says to try it now
Me: OK! (make modem redial and get connected immediately!) HEY it's all better now what did you do?
TS: Ummm, I dont know, gary just went into the back room for a moment... thank you... click

Did they just forget to plug my line back in? I dont know, they wouldn't admit anything more than that ;)
 
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ABTOMAT

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The scripted stuff drives me crazy. Part of the Verizon troubleshooting involved going through several settings screens. For about the third time in one procedure:

TS: Now go to VC Setup
Me: All right, I've gone into VC Setup, clicked on VC1, changed VC1 to bridge, clicked OK, and reset the modem, and the mode still hasn't changed.
TS: Now that you're in VC Setup, click on VC1.
Me: No, I've already finished this setup.
TS: When the VC1 screen opens, change to bridge.

For crying out loud.
 

Jumpmaster

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gadget_lover said:
People in tech support should realize that some of us are at least as capable as their second tier support. We just don't have access to the tech support's terminal to check their equipment status, re-init settings or reset interfaces.

Right...there are an ENORMOUS number of people that THINK they are "at least as capable as (our) second tier support"...but at least 99% of the ones I've talked to that think that way are the worst ones. They totally jack their (and others') systems up beyond comprehension.

We do not mind politely and patiently helping those that honestly would like our help. Those that think they are God's gift to computers, we can do without. Usually, when these people call they start rattling off to us what it is we're supposed to do -- they ASSUME they know what we want them to do, so they start getting ahead, doing things we didn't ask them to do and don't need them to do...NOT doing things we need them to do (like REBOOT, for instance...and ipconfig, etc...) That's when we become very directive with them and if they will not comply with our instructions (no matter what they think they know), we ask them to call back later.

To clarify...these people that I'm talking about are the same ones that will go in and start deleting files from system32...for no other apparent reason than to free up diskspace. The same people that try to back up their 30GB hdd onto a CD-R. The same people that think that because they're having a hard time getting a 2MB attachment over a 36k dialup line means they need to defragment their hdd. etc, etc, etc...ad nauseum...

If you're so knowledgeable, maybe you should always ask for a level 2 tech straight off the bat? And if your ISP doesn't comply, find another ISP. :shrug: That's what I'd do...

JM-99
(Not directed at you...just giving an explanation of why some of the techs you talk to may be frustrated at times...we hear the same crap (and have the above-descibed know-it-all customers) too often.)
 
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PhotonWrangler

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cobb said:
... Its more important on their end that you follow the scripts, read them verbratum than actually help the person. The call centers job is to just handle the calls, not necessarly help anyone.

To a certain extent this can be true, but if "making the numbers" is actually more important than actually helping the customer (which in turn reduces callbacks), then there needs to be a regime change. This shortsighted thinking costs a company more money in the long run.
 

gadget_lover

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jumpmaster said:
If you're so knowledgeable, maybe you should always ask for a level 2 tech straight off the bat? And if your ISP doesn't comply, find another ISP. That's what I'd do...

I often do ask for their second tier support right from the start if I've used their support before. My experience is that they seldom comply without some fuss. If their script says they have to go though their screening first, then that's what they need to do. The frustrating part is how infrequently they pass any of that info to the next level. It seems neither my cable, phone nor cellular providers track any of the non-standard problems. Equipment returns and total outages are recorded, but not poor service of any kind.

I'd change ISPs again if I thought it would do any good. I stopped hopping ISPs when they started buying each other up. No matter what ISP I sign up with there is no garantee that they will provide the same service next month. My cable modem was installed by Viacom, replaced by AT&T and is currently served by Comcast. My DSL was installed by Mindspring which became Earthlink who stopped supporting static addresses so now it's SBC which used to be Pac Bell. Yeah. Switch. No thanks. I'd rather put up with the devil I know.

I don't blame the TS people. I do hold the companies responible for not allowing a little flexibility or at least a script that can be used with experts. Would it be so hard to ask "what is your netmask set to?" instead of trying to lead me through an ipconfig, network settings screen, etc? Mybe that's unreasoanble, maybe not.

Daniel
 

KevinL

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I have both called technical support and been Level 2 for these people. I have also been combined L1/L2 before too.. for many, MANY long months sandwiched in between both!

Occasionally the gods-gift-to-computing crap flew through and hits L2 (me) directly. I really respect the L1 folks who help us screen most of these, because it means they're taking the bullet.

Sometimes where a white lie has to be told to make things easier for them, I tell it. It's not something we're necessarily proud of but I do it where it may make things easier for both them and I. Having served as one of them I never pull attitude on these people unless they start first (which thankfully, has never happened).

Last call I had to make was about my DSL as well. I'm running a Cisco setup, which is WAY outside their scope, and I know it is, but I played honest with them. I told them it was a Cisco, but I correctly identified the problem as being a line problem. I told them that yes, I understood it was out of their scope but if they could try a line reset for me I would be grateful - the girl turned around, asked her supervisor, who did it - by the time she picked the phone back up again I told her everything was fine (I could see the reset and the successful connection).

Make it a point to thank these people - I specifically asked that she convey my appreciation to her supervisor as well for being flexible. This is good support and service and should be appreciated.
 
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