Copying DVD's you own, illegal or legal?

Guys,

Sony won a case long ago for the betamax against universal studios, in that it is legal to copy shows under the fair use clause for the purpose of 'time shifting,' that is, so that you can watch the show later.

One current argument against copying DVD's is that you have to break encryption order to do it.

But what if you want to copy an original that you own so that you won't have a stroke if your three-year-old destroys it? 'They' say that you're in violation because you've broken encryption in order to do this, but this is not, to me, like renting a copy and then burning that to a permanent collection. Also, breaking encryption to load it into a computer (laptop) so that you can watch it during your downtime on a business trip instead of lugging along a disc. Seems reasonable, but IIRC still considered a no-no due to breaking encryption.

This is just my wonderings.

What say you? Okay, not okay? Also, legal definitions?

Not offering this as advice in any way, but I'm not sure how changing formats for your own use could possibly be illegal and constitutional. This is assuming you have an impeccable background and you somehow make it obvious that it is in no way your intention to redistribute.

For example, with the advent of car MP3 players and Ipods, there are probably millions of people that buy CDs, put them in their computer, convert them to MP3 format and shelve the CD indefinately. If these products are sold and market to be used with copyrighted source material, then to declare the use of said devices as intended would be so large in scale that literally Apple Computer would be all but bankrupt.

Now, if the authorities get a lead that you are redistributing such materials, they kick in your door, find your computer with 17,000 MP3s and Kazaa actively running, then it's going to be quite difficult to paint yourself as a law-abiding citizen. That's where much of the trouble is coming from. These kids (and adults... and senior citizens...) have files shared yet are trying to claim that they had no idea how they got there or that they didn't know it was illegal to share them.

Also, when the Napster craze took off and the RIAA finally started cracking down, it seemed like they were mostly going after folks that were making the files available to be downloaded. That is to say, if you downloaded illegal MP3s or Divx files but never made them available for others to download from you, then you weren't really their highest priority. Sort of like the difference between having a recreational amount of illegal drugs, seemingly for your own use, vs having 2 kilos of something while you are offering it for sale on a street corner.

All I know is, I find the whole situation endlessly frustrating. I'm a musician and if I was one that made enough money making and writing music to live off of, then no doubt, I would be equite miffed at folks stealing my property. However, when you have folks like Madonna, who already has more money than any reasonable person will every possibly go through, going on endless tirades about lost money, it makes me wonder how greedy our society has become. I'm not holding this against her in any way... but if I own planes and cars and multiple houses and I will literally NEVER run out of money, I'm sure I could find better things to do with my time than complain about lost money.

Sorry... end of rant mode...

Just my 2¢ here, but if you own the originals and intend to use the copies in your own household and have them used by your own family members, this should be 100% legal.

Sleestak said:

One current argument against copying DVD's is that you have to break encryption order to do it.

Click to expand...

You own the DVD, you own the encryption. If you want to break the encryption you own there is nothing illegal about that. Any digital information what so ever contained inside that DVD is yours to do with as you wish, as long as you don't try selling a copy to someone else.

Copying DVDs and CDs for your own personal use (ie. not to give to a friend or sell), is perfectly legal and considered fair use. The RIAA and MPAA are trying to take away consumer's rights by making it difficult to even exercise those rights through encryption and rootkits (Sony...), and a myriad of other things. HDTV-enabled devices are a perfect example of this -- you'll need HDMI-supporting devices from video cards to monitors, or else you can't watch next-gen high definition.

If you want to copy DVD's for your own personal use, DVDXCopy comes to mind, although it may be *very* hard to find.

IMO, this is overkill, since it's not the average consumer who is distributing the music and videos over pirate networks -- it's the dedicated crackers (note: NOT hackers, hackers are elite programmers, not pirates) who distribute the stuff, and no copyright protection anti-piracy countermeasures will stop them. It just hurts the average consumer.

I agree with everyone else. Unfortunately the Fair Use clause seems to be in direct conflict with the DMCA's interpretation of "breaking encryption." I feel this is a case where the law hasn't fully caught up with all of technology's permutations yet.

Technically you could play back on a DVD player and capture viua the analog input of a PC's capture card without breaking encryption.

Sleestack, your current understanding of the law is correct. Under the DMCA breaking the encryption to copy the DVD is a violation of the law.

Having multiple copies of a DVD you own is not illegal, and has been upheld in court since the passage of the DMCA.

So technically, if you download a copy of a DVD you already own and make another copy to use you are fine.

Kinda dumb, huh?

The most important thing to remember is, if you're just a guy making a copy of your own DVD so your kid doesn't ruin the real thing, even if it WAS completely illegal, you could tell a cop, or whatever other group that monitors this kind of thing, and nothing would happen...

I've always wondered - if you contacted the publisher, would they replace the disc for you for a nominal fee? You're paying for the content, not the media. And the cost to produce the media is negligible to them. So it seems like it'd be a good idea to just offer to replace scratched discs for like $1 - of course you'd have to send them the damaged disc.

Almost makes sense there.
Just like whenever a fast food restaurant drive thru gets your order wrong, you just bring back the wrong order with your receipt (even what's left of it) for the right one.

For the kids, just keep your dvds and dvd player out of thier reach, and this issue will likely never even come up.

I use:
AnyDVD
CloneDVD2

do you know that if you buy a DVD then invite a bunch of friends over to watch it, thats illegal!
cause "they" want your friends to buy their own copies!

carrot said:

Copying DVDs and CDs for your own personal use (ie. not to give to a friend or sell), is perfectly legal and considered fair use. The RIAA and MPAA are trying to take away consumer's rights by making it difficult to even exercise those rights through encryption and rootkits (Sony...), and a myriad of other things. HDTV-enabled devices are a perfect example of this -- you'll need HDMI-supporting devices from video cards to monitors, or else you can't watch next-gen high definition.

If you want to copy DVD's for your own personal use, DVDXCopy comes to mind, although it may be *very* hard to find.

IMO, this is overkill, since it's not the average consumer who is distributing the music and videos over pirate networks -- it's the dedicated crackers (note: NOT hackers, hackers are elite programmers, not pirates) who distribute the stuff, and no copyright protection anti-piracy countermeasures will stop them. It just hurts the average consumer.

Click to expand...

Agree, xcopy is gone use AnyDVD and Clone2DVD

Last I read,

It is 100% LEGAL to make copies of CDs and DVDs that you own, for your own personal use.

I think Sony had a new encryption planned, but were not allowed to use it.
Due to it violating the users right to copy his own DVD for personal use.

~John

Some interesting links:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/02/20/tech/main601371.shtml
http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA
http://www.gseis.ucla.edu/iclp/dmca1.htm

In the manner that they've conducted themselves, as market manipulators, corporate and litigious thugs, and content pimps, it makes me feel good when the RIAA and MPAA are made to scurry like roaches in the light . With NO regard for the consumer, they act only to preserve themselves and a dying business model with underhanded methods as they cozy up with like minded companies and congress. Unless they soon "get it" (it's not likely that they ever will), they'll likely go the way of dinosaurs and carbon batteries.

Here are some informative reads:
Do the Math
RIAA and Sony
DRM - Three Dirty Letters
Shop 'til they Lock

73
dim

Out of curiosity, I thought that DVD encryption just stopped a person from playing the DVD on an "unauthorized" player (prevents ripping to different formats, editing, playing on Linux players, etc.).

And technologies like MacroVision randomized the video timing enough that a TV could sync just fine, but a mechanical analog VCR could not track the "jittering" video signals and you would see poor video quality (unless you used a video re-syncing box).

"Standard" DVD's were copy-able from the original to a blank without "breaking" the encryption.

-Bill

A great resource:

Digital Video Forums

Eric