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Thread: Some questions about the Shark driver

  1. #391

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    Quote Originally Posted by TranquillityBase View Post
    Wayne, I received an email from Cindy and she told me my metal pin vise probably shorted the board and it would not be covered under warranty. Has this changed?
    It sounds like your board is functional. It doesn't sound like there is any problem and I think everything is fine except for the issue with the wrong resistor.

    Wayne

  2. #392

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    Quote Originally Posted by dat2zip View Post
    It sounds like your board is functional. It doesn't sound like there is any problem and I think everything is fine except for the issue with the wrong resistor.

    Wayne
    Yes, you are correct it is functional (post #379).....I thought post #379 would have been helpful to you.
    Last edited by TranquillityBase; 02-11-2010 at 10:54 AM.

  3. #393

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    I have contacted those who have purchased a Blue Shark and had them shipped on or after Jan 13th. There were 3 customers.

    Some orders have not been shipped. The Blue Shark will be fixed in these orders before the order is shipped.

  4. #394

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    Still an issue...

    The driver shuts down at 3.30 amps input current, which seems well below specification.

    I was able to run the driver for better than an hour at .700mA without an issue...When I turn the trim pot to feed the LED 1amp the board would overheat and shut off in under 15 seconds.

    Why would this occur?


  5. #395
    Flashaholic* TorchBoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    Quote Originally Posted by TranquillityBase View Post
    I was able to run the driver for better than an hour at .700mA without an issue...
    You mean 0.7 A?
    No, a torch does not always mean flames.
    Ian.
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  6. #396

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    Quote Originally Posted by TorchBoy View Post
    You mean 0.7 A?
    Yep

  7. #397
    Flashaholic* Icarus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    Scott, I think your input voltage is too low. As a result the shark has to work (too) hard and is overheating.
    It may also help to heatsink the switcher chip and diode.
    Wayne says input current should not exceed 3-4A.
    Last edited by Icarus; 02-17-2010 at 09:15 AM.

  8. #398

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
    Scott, I think your input voltage is too low. As a result the shark has to work (too) hard and is overheating.
    It may also help to heatsink the switcher chip and diode.
    Wayne says input current should not exceed 3-4A.
    Thanks Freddy

    I understand the driver has to work harder (boost), but isn't 4A input, 4A input?

    Here's the specs;


    Input voltage range: 2.7V - ~25V (Vin < Vout)
    Maximum input current: 4A
    Output Current: Adjustable on board trim pot - 50mA - 980mA
    Output Voltage: ~32V
    Regulation: Voltage or Current.
    Maximum component height 3mm
    Raises Vout from 22.5V and improves thermal performance over standard Shark.
    Requires Heatsinking

    I was under the impression the Blue Shark addressed the heat issues of the previous (green board) Shark driver?

  9. #399
    Flashaholic* Icarus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    Scot,

    I understand your frustration but... at the same page you can also read "... This will put open circuit Vout to ~32V and provide no load protection. 3-7 Lux3s/Cree XRE/Seoul P4s can be driven with this configuration as long as the boost input current does not exceed 3-4A. You can drive 5-6 Lux3s in series with 9V - 12V input and drive the string at 1A."

    I suppose you want to run the 6-die Ostar off one li-ion cell, but that's a huge boost. I think you need the best possible heatsinking. Personally I always try to avoid high input currents and also don't think it's a good idea to put whatever driver to its limits.

  10. #400

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
    Scot,

    I understand your frustration but... at the same page you can also read "... This will put open circuit Vout to ~32V and provide no load protection. 3-7 Lux3s/Cree XRE/Seoul P4s can be driven with this configuration as long as the boost input current does not exceed 3-4A. You can drive 5-6 Lux3s in series with 9V - 12V input and drive the string at 1A."

    I suppose you want to run the 6-die Ostar off one li-ion cell, but that's a huge boost. I think you need the best possible heatsinking. Personally I always try to avoid high input currents and also don't think it's a good idea to put whatever driver to its limits.
    Currently I have a 4 die Ostar, AA to the aluminum plate...13.2 Vf, so 8 volts is over 50% of 13.2

    Wouldn't a 4 die Ostar 13.2/4 = 3.3 Vf per chip equal four Lux III's, Seoul or Cree LED's?...

    I didn't expect to run this particular LED with one LiIon cell from the get go, but it struggles with 2 x 18650 cells in series.

    It's the IC that is overheating...If I blow air directly at the IC chip (with a small bulb duster), it will handle 6 volts...Without the air it will overheat and trip off. 6 volts = about 2.60 amps power consumption.



    Here is my IC cooler...

    Last edited by TranquillityBase; 02-17-2010 at 03:36 PM.

  11. #401

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    I have been able to get 4A on the input. The blue shark must be heatsinked properly and this means the gap between the copper C and the heatsink must be perfect. Any heatsink gap due to a thick layer of epoxy will not generate a proper heat transfer.

    You are at the limit. I've seen improper setups fail at 3A input. With proper mounting you can get the optimum. It is hard to tell in the picture the actual contact thickness under the blue shark and thus, impossible to tell. But, in almost all cases I've seen the blue shark had a thick of gap between the copper C and heatsink.

    To properly attach the blue shark should more than likely be clamped the whole time the glue is setting up. Also, some people lap the bottom of the copper C to make it even flatter.

    If you are just bench testing you can use a strong fan to keep the converter attached to a heat sink cool.

    If you can avoid pushing the Shark to the extreme it is always recommended.

    If your heatsink is only the dark rectangle that is not enough heat sink mass and if it is just sitting on the metal plate that is not a good contact to transfer from the dark plate to the sheet metal top.

    Wayne
    Last edited by dat2zip; 02-17-2010 at 06:20 PM.

  12. #402

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    Quote Originally Posted by TranquillityBase View Post
    Still an issue...

    The driver shuts down at 3.30 amps input current, which seems well below specification.

    I was able to run the driver for better than an hour at .700mA without an issue...When I turn the trim pot to feed the LED 1amp the board would overheat and shut off in under 15 seconds.

    Why would this occur?

    In your picture it appears the Blue shark does not have adequate heat sinking. Mount the shark to a heat sink that has 6C/W thermal transfer or better. A good heatsink is a junk CPU heat sink. These can be had for a few $$$ in surplus and make an excellent heat sink for bench setups.

    Wayne

  13. #403

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    I would not use anything smaller than the following to test the Converter board.


    http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.co...oducts_id=1190

    This is what I use to test my Blue Shark on the bench. Even with this I always turn on a fan to help move the heat off the heat sink.

    Wayne

  14. #404

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    The only part of the driver that will transfer heat away from the driver is the copper C, correct?

  15. #405

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    Quote Originally Posted by dat2zip View Post
    I would not use anything smaller than the following to test the Converter board.


    Wayne
    It's hard to tell from the picture but thats a Huge 1/2 thick plate of aluminum under that driver board

    Mac
    www.macscustoms.com
    *Note* Shipping Insurance must be requested.

  16. #406

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    Quote Originally Posted by dat2zip View Post
    To properly attach the blue shark should more than likely be clamped the whole time the glue is setting up. Also, some people lap the bottom of the copper C to make it even flatter.

    Wayne
    I noticed the copper C is not soldered flat to the driver (one leg of the C is slightly elevated, creating an air gap (not competely soldered))...If you speak of perfect flatness and an ultra thin layer of thermo epoxy, wouldn't the copper C be more suspect with the existing air gap than the mounting of the driver to the heat sink?

  17. #407

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    There is quite a number of voids between the C and the driver board, the piece of paper depicts the largest void.

    I would think the connection between this copper piece and the driver would play a bigger role in heat transfer than the epoxy that will eventually join the board to a heat sink.


    Last edited by TranquillityBase; 02-17-2010 at 07:13 PM.

  18. #408

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    If the heat sink burns your fingers it is not big enough. If you can hold the heat sink the blue shark burns your fingers the blue shark is improperly mounted.

    You should be able to hold the heat sink the whole time it is running. If at any time after 15 seconds the heat sink gets to hot to hold it is not big enough.

    Wayne

  19. #409

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    Quote Originally Posted by TranquillityBase View Post
    There is quite a number of voids between the C and the driver board, the piece of paper depicts the largest void.

    I would think the connection between this copper piece and the driver would play a bigger role in heat transfer than the epoxy that will eventually join the board to a heat sink.


    The heat emminates from the inside corner directly under the square IC. The outter edge where you are referring to has no heat generated at that point. The heat will spread to that whole copper C. The job of the copper C is to spread out the IC heat to a larger more manageble area that is mountable to a heat sink.

    Wayne

  20. #410

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    If you have never used a blue shark before my recommendation is to buy three of them.

    First one to test the setup on the bench and get familiar with the setup.

    One is a spare in case one burns up and the third is for the final light configuration.

    Wayne

  21. #411

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    Quote Originally Posted by dat2zip View Post
    If the heat sink burns your fingers it is not big enough. If you can hold the heat sink the blue shark burns your fingers the blue shark is improperly mounted.

    You should be able to hold the heat sink the whole time it is running. If at any time after 15 seconds the heat sink gets to hot to hold it is not big enough.

    Wayne
    The plate in the photo is .395" thick x 5.500" x 8.000" aluminum...I think it's adequate.

  22. #412

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    Quote Originally Posted by dat2zip View Post
    If you have never used a blue shark before my recommendation is to buy three of them.

    First one to test the setup on the bench and get familiar with the setup.

    One is a spare in case one burns up and the third is for the final light configuration.

    Wayne
    OK

  23. #413

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    Quote Originally Posted by cmacclel View Post
    It's hard to tell from the picture but thats a Huge 1/2 thick plate of aluminum under that driver board

    Mac
    It doesn't do any good if the converter is not mounted to it.

  24. #414

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    Quote Originally Posted by TranquillityBase View Post
    There is quite a number of voids between the C and the driver board, the piece of paper depicts the largest void.

    I would think the connection between this copper piece and the driver would play a bigger role in heat transfer than the epoxy that will eventually join the board to a heat sink.



    The converter must be glued to the heat sink with something like AA adhesive to move the heat to the heat sink. Is this picture taken after the setup picture? I don't see any glue on the bottom there. How did you mount the blue shark.

    Bottom line. If the blue shark burns your fingers it is not properly mounted to a heat sink of sufficient size or improperly mounted.

  25. #415

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    The thermal pad material (TGF120K)

  26. #416

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    the only bench test I can sanction is with the black anodized heat sink I sell on the shoppe as that is what I use for all my converter board tests.

    The converter board is glued to the center of the heat sink using Arctic Silver Arctic alumina adhesive (two part epoxy) and clamped until the epoxy is set.

    Wayne

  27. #417

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    Quote Originally Posted by dat2zip View Post
    the only bench test I can sanction is with the black anodized heat sink I sell on the shoppe as that is what I use for all my converter board tests.

    The converter board is glued to the center of the heat sink using Arctic Silver Arctic alumina adhesive (two part epoxy) and clamped until the epoxy is set.

    Wayne

    So if I AA the driver to this slab of aluminum and get the same results, will you site improper/unsanctioned heat sink?

    Please share your clamping method so I can follow your process, and not risk damage to the driver board components.

  28. #418

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    I recommended three because in bench testing the converter needs to be glued down and I would not recommend removing the glued down shark and re-use it.

    Converter board clamped to heat sink using a pony clamp. The pony clamp has soft rubber tips in this clamp.




    Converter board after glue setup.


    Bottom side view.


    In the pictures are a Shark Buck. the same procedure or method applies to the Blue Shark for bench testing.

    Wayne

  29. #419

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    a two cell lithium and 4 LEDs should be drawing around 2A.

    I have done a lot of testing of the blue shark and I know when the shark gets hot it gets less efficient and the input current rises. For your Blue shark to be drawing 3+ amps has only been seen when I run the blue shark in free space and no heat sink. Then the blue shark gets extermely hot and input current rises above normal levels.

    Wayne

  30. #420

    Default Re: Some questions about the Shark driver

    I will AA epoxy the board to the heat sink

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