Too expensive?

Hi, i have been trying to decide on a good EDC. I have been looking into the HDS lights, particularily the EDC Ultimate 60 XR GT. It seems to be a great light with a lot of features, but it also seems way overpriced. Am I wrong? I mean for the same price as just this model I could get a Surefire A2, a Fenix L1P, and 20 top brand CR-123's. Like I realize it has a lot of electronic features like S.O.S. signaling, adjustable brightness presets, exc. but does this really justify the extremely high price tag? I have also heard/read the fit and finish on this light isnt that great either. So what do you guys think? Is HDS worth the extra coin when there is so many other great and less costly options out there?

Dark Knight

"too expensive" depends on how much value you place on the features. What will you use this light for? Could you get the same job done with a SF A2, or an L1P? If so, then it's too much money. If the HDS will do everything you need it to do, and you can't live without any of its features, then the cost may be justified. It's a personal decision.

The HDS is a good light but a poor value for the money. The "XR" and "GT" get you NOTHING but a led of a certain bin that allows the light to cross a certain line in tint or runtime. I got a "xr" and there were non- "xr" lights at the time that had just as good a runtime . I hated the tint on my XR. The clip, even the replacement clip , are very poor and one drop to the concrete (after the clip let go) put a big ding in it. The light is bulky for a pocket (imho) and there is no way of verifying the lumen claims of HDS.

These lights are technologically advanced and the options in the ultimate are nice if you are particular about how you use the light. Most of the options will never be used by most people.

The HDS lights are worth considering but IMHO what you get when you get the better models is vague and expensive. The cheaper models are much better deals and should be considered.

Consider a PD.

Of course, if the light you buy is a statement of your personal identity and you are a Rolex, Mont Blanc, Sebenza guy... then you are kind of obligated to get the HDS edc u60 XR GT. You'd be less of a person otherwise.

As mentioned, it's all personal preference and value. Personally, if I could afford either an HDS or McLuxIII PD (which I can't), I'd get the PD. More attractive to me and has the low and high features that I want (I don't see the need for the other features personally). The Jil Intelli also has SOS and other features, and is considerably smaller than either one, so that may be another option. I hope to get the Jil Intelli in the future, but can't afford one anytime soon. There's also a light from Emilion that has SOS and some other features for about $80. There's so many choices out there. Keep looking around if you feel you can't justify the HDS.

I EDC a Fenix L1P that I love. I don't even notice that it is on my belt. More than enough light for most everything. If you want you can turn it into a two stage light. That said my favorite light to play with is a Q3 that I put Goldserve's flupic into. It is now a HDS EDC for about $50. I have a low, med, high, strobe, and SOS should I chose. I just don't carry this as I don't have a really good holster for it. I should mention that to get the most out of it you need to use rechargeables. I bought a set for ~$11 on ebay (two 1000mah cells and a 110 charger). Also with the Q3 should you damage the housing a new one is only around $30. So you won't cry so hard when you drop it.

Well, Im not a Rolex or a Sebenza person. I do have a Mont Blanc set, but from a long time ago. But I think there is a difference in the case of HDS or even Surefire when compared to Mont Blanc or Rolex. One reason HDS is so expensive is the combination of brightness, features and size. I also think the fit and finish is fine. Im quite happy with mine. I got one for my wife and she feels the same way.

In the case of say Rolex or Mont Blanc, I would feel perfectly comfortable arguing that several watch brands or pen brands that are not only cheaper, but BETTER, then Rolex or Mont Blanc. In the case of HDS, something like a QIII is way cheaper, but I would say it isnt as good or better. Even an E1E is not as good. Is a QIII a better value, absolutely. But is it better, not a chance. Again, that is different with the examples you cited. Thats why I think HDS is a bit different than the examples you cite. They arent better but they are cheaper lights. Maybe an HDS is not better than a McLux, but those babies arent exactly cheap either.

Personally, I think the "lower" end HDS's are the best value to be found in "high" end flashlights. For $120 for the entry level EDC Basic 42, you get many very advanced features- thermal LED monitering, 4 brightness levels with rock-solid regulation, able to take a variety of voltages, custom calibration of the electronics to the LED, top-of-the-line build quality and durability, etc. The 42 lumen model is plenty bright and for the price, I think it represents an excellent value. The "ripoff" only comes with the models that use slightly more efficient or whiter LEDs, and the fact that the "guts" of the Basic Line are identical to the Ultimate, but you pay a premium for customizability.

Its true that the HDS user interface could be more elegant, and the diameter and heft make a bit more noticable in the pocket than some others (its still much smaller than a Q-III), but for sheer features and engineering excellence, the HDS blows away Surefire and even the custom competitors in what it can offer for the price.

As for mid-range lights- they all make light, and if that's all you need, get a Fenix L1P or the like (I actually sold my HDS once I got my hands on the Fenix). It works and is a bit more comfortable to carry (especially since you won't think about the cost). If you want something state of the art, get the HDS.

Ditto what Soltstice said... The Basic 42 or the 42 XR gets you a very good chunk of what the Ultimate 60 gives you, but for a WHOLE lot less. It's been a while since I've seen a truly terrible tint on a current Lux III, but I'd probably ante up for teh 42 XR myself. Honestly though, the lights don't interest me and I'd have to do more research into them before I laid out any coin for them at all.

Having said that, if I could either get the Ultimate 60 XR GT or the PD, I literally wouldn't even consider the HDS light.

HDS is on the right track. It's not the light that everyone desires, but it's not far from it. The machining is there, the electronics are superb, the K2 is on the way; if HDS can make a model the size of the Fenix with a decent clip they won't be able to make them fast enough.

cratz2 said:

Ditto what Soltstice said... The Basic 42 or the 42 XR gets you a very good chunk of what the Ultimate 60 gives you, but for a WHOLE lot less. It's been a while since I've seen a truly terrible tint on a current Lux III, but I'd probably ante up for teh 42 XR myself. Honestly though, the lights don't interest me and I'd have to do more research into them before I laid out any coin for them at all.

Having said that, if I could either get the Ultimate 60 XR GT or the PD, I literally wouldn't even consider the HDS light.

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My wife didnt want one as bright, but wanted it for reading. She had a QIII but it was too bright to read a menu in a restaurant or something. So I got her a B42 GT. It has the adjustable levels that she needed plus the good tint for reading. And I would argue that while the HDS U60 XR GT is a great light, but not a great value, the B42 GT is both a great light and a great value.

Solstice said:

Personally, I think the "lower" end HDS's are the best value to be found in "high" end flashlights. For $120 for the entry level EDC Basic 42, you get many very advanced features- thermal LED monitering, 4 brightness levels with rock-solid regulation, able to take a variety of voltages, custom calibration of the electronics to the LED, top-of-the-line build quality and durability, etc. The 42 lumen model is plenty bright and for the price, I think it represents an excellent value. The "ripoff" only comes with the models that use slightly more efficient or whiter LEDs, and the fact that the "guts" of the Basic Line are identical to the Ultimate, but you pay a premium for customizability.

Its true that the HDS user interface could be more elegant, and the diameter and heft make a bit more noticable in the pocket than some others (its still much smaller than a Q-III), but for sheer features and engineering excellence, the HDS blows away Surefire and even the custom competitors in what it can offer for the price.

As for mid-range lights- they all make light, and if that's all you need, get a Fenix L1P or the like (I actually sold my HDS once I got my hands on the Fenix). It works and is a bit more comfortable to carry (especially since you won't think about the cost). If you want something state of the art, get the HDS.

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WORD.

I have beat my B-60 to death and it doesn't seem to have a scratch. never fails to work, run well on any li ion or primary 123 and at least mine is as good fit and finish as a SF or
other well made light's. I use every setting for something, and that makes it Ideal for a "single light" EDC. no regrets..VDG

"Worth it" is entirely subjective in this case. I definitely think the Basic models are "worth it". It kicks the living snot out of a Surefire L1, in a smaller package. And compared to pocket rocket lights like the Amilite, the ability to use a lower output, with extended runtime, is a major benifit. An HDS Basic might be 2x the cost, but you get more than 2x the flashlight.

As for the Ultimate series, "worth it" becomes much more divided. I personally think most of the extra capabilities are excessive. SOS, strobe (too slow to be used "tactically") locater beacon, etc only serve to make things more confusing. However, some of the features make it "worth it" to me. I don't own an Ultimate yet, but I will once the 85 is rereleased. I plan to set it up with 60 lumens primary, 30-40 secondary, 10 low, and 85 as the high. I also like that you can set it to work momentary.

I suppose it comes down to a choice between simplicity and a myriad of options. With something like the McLux PD, you simply push the button or twist the head. It just turns on. You don't have to click, double click, tripple click, double click+press+hold, or anything like that. You just turn it on. I wouldn't even think of handing an Ultimate EDC to someone without turning it on for them first. Anybody can figure out a PD.

I'm rambling...

Whatever light you get, you simply can't appreciate the usefulness of multiple levels of light (even if it's just two) until you use one. Be it an HDS, a PD, a Jil Intelli, or one of the Surefires. There is such a thing as "too bright". I can't see myself ever buying any light in the future that isn't multi-level. Otherwise, I'd be forced to carry more than one light. Well, I guess I already do carry more than one light, but you know what I mean.

voodoogreg said:

WORD.

I have beat my B-60 to death and it doesn't seem to have a scratch. never fails to work, run well on any li ion or primary 123 and at least mine is as good fit and finish as a SF or
other well made light's. I use every setting for something, and that makes it Ideal for a "single light" EDC. no regrets..VDG

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I might not be as lucky maybe, cause my Basic 60 LE dosent have finish as nice as any of my surefire. When I first got the HDS EDC, I was quite suprised that the tail cap is, err...plastic? but I wasnt aware of this till I bought one.I prefer surefire tint than my non GT HDS. The high cost IMHO is all about its great technology

Hi Darkknight,



I support you opinion. I also like HDS lights, but I think they (as you say) are really overpriced. Look at the price of U85GT. 345 US Dollars. Man, that is too much for one little toy. But that its.

I am afraid this politics of the flashlight makers (with big prices), will bring nothing but more Chinese lights on the market, as Fenix.

Everyone says that Fenix is a brand of 2005, and they set a new standard for performance and value. So one day I'm sure they will produce, even much better flashlight from many HDS or Surefire models, for a half value of them.

Then we'll see, what will be happened.

I hope, you understand me.

Thanks

Mi6

GhostReaction said:

I might not be as lucky maybe, cause my Basic 60 LE dosent have finish as nice as any of my surefire. When I first got the HDS EDC, I was quite suprised that the tail cap is, err...plastic? but I wasnt aware of this till I bought one.I prefer surefire tint than my non GT HDS. The high cost IMHO is all about its great technology

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Plastic? when did they change? mine is metal (or carbon fiber) cause I put
heat shrink on mine as part of a lanyard experiment and melted threw the
shrink tube no harm other then wiping off the residue. It also has a small chip
out of the anodize looks like a metal to me. VDG

P.S.mine is B-60 serial# 100 FYI if there was a change I would like to know I don't doubt you,, just wondering.