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Thread: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

  1. #1
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    Default Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    I'm thinking (still on the fence) about getting some 3.0V R123A batteries. I found the Tenergy ones on BatteryJunction.com that have 900mAh capacity, the highest I've found for 3.0V R123As. I know Tenergy's fairly new and I only found positive feedback thus from searching the forums.
    Anyone have any experience with Tenergy 900mAh 3.0V R123As?
    Do they have a guaranteed loaded voltage (like those offered by e-lectronics.net)?

    Also from searching/reading some threads, it seems the Powerizer didn't start out with a very good reputation, but it seems some of the later posts mention they've gotten better and actually live up to their capacity claims now. Any other/updated comments on Powerizer? Their primaries and NiMH are pretty well priced.

    Thanks,
    J.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    I tried powerizer before, their batteris are totally crappy. After one charge, some chemical stuff leaks from the cells and damaged my charger. dot like it

  3. #3
    Flashaholic changsn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    I've got to think the 900 mah claim is inflated as I don't recall seeing regular R123's with that high a capacity. Probably worth a try - keep us informed if you do. The highest capacity I've seen were some offered by Dae - 17335's 3.0v at 700 mah.
    Sam
    Romisen NC-G2, MTE SSC P4,MaxLite II, Civictor, LiteFlux1, Nuwai TM-115x, VB-16, Dorcy Super 1 Watt, UKeLED, CMG reactor

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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    if 900 mah is actually correct, this will be a 50% improvement over anything I've seen.

    best R123 has tested to aprox 625 mah so far...

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    Thanks guys. Seems the Tenergy 900mAh R123s are too new. I'm still on the fence with 3.0V R123s, but if I do go with 3.0V, I might try these out. But I don't have a charger/tester so the only testing I can do is a constant-on runtime test on one of my lights and check runtime. But then, I don't have any 600-700mAh 3.0V R123s to compare against.
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    Flashaholic changsn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    I've had good success with the 3.0v R123's in that none of my lights have burned out and they allow me the 'guilty free lumens'. I'd love to give these guys a try, but currently have more than enough 3.0v R123's.
    Sam
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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    Tenergy also operates their own web store under the domain of all-battery.com. They also have a set of forums, http://forums.all-battery.com as well as online chat with a customer service rep (one that actually responds!). And for the folks in the Silicon Valley area, unlike some of the other local web merchants, these guys actually have a store front and welcome people to drop by and pick up their orders if it will save on the shipping. (Of course, the locals probably already know that $5-7 for shipping might actually be less than the cost of gas for a round trip to pick it up. ) Oh yeah, their shipping prices look quite reasonable as well (USPS or FedEX.)

    Gonna probably head over there at lunch time.

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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    Brighteyez - if you pick up some of the Tenergy 3.0V 900mAh R123As, let me know how you like them after you've had a chance to test them out and get them thru a few charge/discharge cycles.
    I've spoken to them over the phone and prompted them to add the statement on their site now that the loaded voltage should be about 3.0V (I had asked that on the phone with them). They're sticking to their 900mAh claim stating it's their 3rd generation design and apparently they use thinner separators. One strange thing is their cells are 2mm shorter than standard (32mm vs. 34mm), unless they're not accounting for the button height.
    I'm also considering their primary CR123As if/when I run out of my good Sanyo and Rayovac stash now. I can get them for less than I can get Titaniums since vendors outside of CA sell the Tenergys and I won't get charged tax.
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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    I went over and picked up one of the chargers with 4 batteries for $29.99, http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp...rodID=521&HS=1. The charger looks exactly like the one that AW is offering at http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=103334
    Same specs too, 12VDC IN 4.4VDC Out.
    The batteries have the same characteristics as AW describes as well, 3.78-9 VDC open, dropping to about 3.2.

    I've charged up one set, and tried one battery in a Nuwai Q-3. Didn't notice any difference in lighting intensity (so I'm guessing it's not sustaining 3.6.) Took a deep breath, checked the spare bulb compartment to make sure that there was a spare bulb, and then stuck a pair into my SL TL-2. Worked fine (whew!, no flash!), and again noticed no visual difference in brightness intensity (did I mention no flash! ). Insofar as differences in size, I compared the Tenergy batteries to Duracell and Streamlight CR123s and did not notice any difference in size (2mm would be visible and noticable), though it is possible that it may be a rounded off reference to the button height (about 1.5mm using a cheap office ruler to measure). The packaging is pretty much typical of Chinese products filled with misspellings and improper grammar. The front of the package indicates that batteries take 1.5-3 hours to charge (it took about 1.5 hours to charge each of the two sets of included batteries.) The back of the package however indicates that it should take 2.7 hours to charge one battery and 5.4 hours to charge two batteries (must have been text that they took from some other packaging. ). The whole thing comes as a clam-shell package that you can expect to find in a retail store with the charger, wall wart 12V supply, car cord, and 4 batteries.

    I like the fact that they're open to will-call (they encouraged it to save on shipping, since I was nearby) and don't run customers through hoops to inconvenience them, like some of our other local vendors, so I guess I'll be using them more often, they're friendly both over the phone (and on the web) and in person. So I'm looking at them as a resource of convenience in addition to reasonable pricing (not necessarily the cheapest.) Insofar as evading sales tax, I'm not one to do that. I live in this state, was born and raised here, I don't mind paying my fair share. I do mind when a vendor doesn't have the common courtesy to answer e-mail, and can't be bothered for a local will-call if I need something today, and rather than having the parcel shipped 45-50 miles away to Richmond CA for sorting so that it can be delivered 4-5 days later 10 miles away from where it originated. So unless Tenergy/all-battery decides to do a U-turn on their customer service practices, my one experience with them so far would put them in the above average range for a business in their category.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsr
    Brighteyez - if you pick up some of the Tenergy 3.0V 900mAh R123As, let me know how you like them after you've had a chance to test them out and get them thru a few charge/discharge cycles.
    I've spoken to them over the phone and prompted them to add the statement on their site now that the loaded voltage should be about 3.0V (I had asked that on the phone with them). They're sticking to their 900mAh claim stating it's their 3rd generation design and apparently they use thinner separators. One strange thing is their cells are 2mm shorter than standard (32mm vs. 34mm), unless they're not accounting for the button height.
    I'm also considering their primary CR123As if/when I run out of my good Sanyo and Rayovac stash now. I can get them for less than I can get Titaniums since vendors outside of CA sell the Tenergys and I won't get charged tax.

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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    Quote Originally Posted by jsr
    Brighteyez - if you pick up some of the Tenergy 3.0V 900mAh R123As, let me know how you like them after you've had a chance to test them out and get them thru a few charge/discharge cycles.
    Update Okay, I've had a chance to run the 3V R123s through a few more paces. They'll work fine with a Luxeon light like the Q3 or one of the SL Lux 2 cell lights.

    With higher draw incandescents they don't work so well and will often require multiple taps before the lamp is illuminated. For incandescents I tried the batteries in a SL TL-2, Brinkman LX, and a Dorcy Spyder. Both the Brinkman and the Dorcy required multiple taps to get the bulb lit every time. The SL TL-2 was less tempermental, but it does require multiple taps about 1/3 of the time to get the bulb going.

    At this point, I would only use these batteries only with LED or Luxeon based lights. If your usage for the incandescents is non-critical (e.g. not for public safety work or other situations where your light must function with a high degree of reliability), I suppose it would be okay to use these batteries for that purpose.

    I wasn't planning on running any kind of run time test, nor do I have the equipment to test the batteries accurately for capacity, so I think someone else will have to get that info for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsr
    One strange thing is their cells are 2mm shorter than standard (32mm vs. 34mm), unless they're not accounting for the button height.
    Their measurements are probably off and have indeed excluded the button on the battery. I measured the Tenergy batteries with a set of calipers and compared them against the length of primary CR123s. I found the Tenergy's to measure about .15 mm (.005") longer than Duracell or Streamlight CR123s, and about .3mm (.01") longer than a Yuntong (from Arc) or a Titanium CR123. Basically an insignificant difference in overall length.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    Found something interesting. go to the site of United States Patent and Trademark Office

    http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?...ate=l314qg.1.1

    and you will found Powerizer is not a legit Trademark in USA

    Tenergy is a live trademark

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    Brighteyez - thanks for the review. It sounds like the performance is quite good and I'm glad to hear it works in the TL-2 (I have one also) w/o blowing the bulb.
    I know who you're referring to on the local vendors. My experience with that same vendor was less than stellar and I too had to jump through hoops just to get what I paid for (seemingly I was the only one, but it seems most, if not virtually all, those satisfied and that got all their ordered and paid for products only ordered small quantities whereas mine was fairly sizable).
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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    My report is based on the Powerizer AA 2300mAh so it doesn't mean all Powerizers are bad. For me, I would never touch them again. Buying these rechargeables is as harmful as buying disposables and filling up landwaste.

    They sucks, non of them ever reach 2000mAh at discharge rate of 300mAh. Average capacity is around 1600mAh. That is average of 22 AA cells. The plastic jacket on these cells is weak and tear easily. The negative contact of the cell is also very weak. Most of the Powerizer are already dented. None of my rechargeable cells are like that.

    I didn't buy the cells. I bought some chinese 8 LED flashlight and the Powerizer comes with it. I prefer to spend a little more money on premium rechargeables when it comes to reusable cells.

    vince.
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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    Let me repeat the caveat on using these with the TL-2 and other incandescent high intensity lights, you will most likely experience the need to use multiple taps to get the bulb illuminated. They may not deliver the higher level of current needed to initialize the Xenon based high intensity lights. As such, I've ruled them out for my use, since I do have to have the light operate reliably. I'll be using these batteries solely for Luxeon based lights (which probably means that I'll need to get more since the only Lux that I have using CR123s is a Q3 and I don't need 4 batteries for that ).

    Right now, to power the charger I'm using the AC wall wart from a Vanson charger (because it's already on the table) instead of the supplied adapter, and the DC cord from a Costco Vector 'Banana' light for a car cord (since I was already using that for the Vanson,) so other than the initial usage I haven't really used the supplied cords.

    I wasn't aware of it at the time, however it seems that I've had previous dealings with Tenergy branded products on an industrial level basis for some NiMH batteries. Nothing steller to report, just an average level battery. Can't really say that the R123s will be good performers, only that they're serving my need for the time being.

    Insofar as vendors are concerned, just getting what you ordered is pretty much an expectation, not in indication of the level of service. Being responsive to inquries would add to their level of service, publically announcing that you can't be bothered to answer inquiries that don't put money in your pocket is a sure sign that you should probably expect problems, especially if something is wrong with your order or if you are shipped defective merchandise. Dealers like that need to stay on eBay rather than trying to operate as a legitimate retail vendor.

    Not getting your order would be indicative of an unreliable vendor, period. To the defense of web merchants though, there are a lot of scammers who try to take advantage of them with false claims of missing items or may claim the receipt of a defective item when they have substituted the damaged item that they already own. Some vendors are more cautious than others, to the point of inconviencing the honest consumers whose orders have been incorrectly fulfilled. And it's not limited to just web sales, the Fry's stores in this area seem to be rather susceptable to products switches in returned merchandise packages, so I never buy anything from Fry's that has a broken seal on it, and if it is a package that is not seal, I will examine the package and contents fully before I even think of putting it into a shopping basket/cart.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsr
    Brighteyez - thanks for the review. It sounds like the performance is quite good and I'm glad to hear it works in the TL-2 (I have one also) w/o blowing the bulb.
    I know who you're referring to on the local vendors. My experience with that same vendor was less than stellar and I too had to jump through hoops just to get what I paid for (seemingly I was the only one, but it seems most, if not virtually all, those satisfied and that got all their ordered and paid for products only ordered small quantities whereas mine was fairly sizable).
    Last edited by Brighteyez; 03-28-2006 at 11:42 AM.

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    Flashaholic* JimH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    Quote Originally Posted by changsn
    I've got to think the 900 mah claim is inflated as I don't recall seeing regular R123's with that high a capacity.
    Sanyo CR123 claim 1400mAh, and Titanium CR123 claim 1300mAh
    Jim - Have lights, lead, and steel will travel

    The heck with runtime. I just want to hold the sun in my hands!! Brighter is Better!

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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    JimH - these are R123A Rechargable cells we're discussing. The primaries definitely have higher capacities, but thus far, the highest 3.6/3.7V and 3.0V protected R123As I've seen are 750mAh.
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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    Quote Originally Posted by jsr
    JimH - these are R123A Rechargable cells we're discussing. The primaries definitely have higher capacities, but thus far, the highest 3.6/3.7V and 3.0V protected R123As I've seen are 750mAh.
    . . I just ordered some Tenergy 3v RCR123's. I've got a CBA II that I've never used. I guess it's time to set it up and see what the Tenergy batteries really have.
    Jim - Have lights, lead, and steel will travel

    The heck with runtime. I just want to hold the sun in my hands!! Brighter is Better!

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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    Jim,

    They have will-call and you can pick it up from their office/warehouse. They're about a block down from Costco around the corner from where you had lunch on Friday.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimH
    I just ordered some Tenergy 3v RCR123's. I've got a CBA II that I've never used. I guess it's time to set it up and see what the Tenergy batteries really have.

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    Flashaholic* JimH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    I placed my order with them via email with instructions to notify me when the order was ready to pick up.
    Jim - Have lights, lead, and steel will travel

    The heck with runtime. I just want to hold the sun in my hands!! Brighter is Better!

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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    The Battery Station also has a 900mAh 3.7v rechargeable "yellow label" battey.

    I just got them and only have a few cycles on them. So far they have performed very well. I'm getting 65 minute runtimes in a light that normally gets 100-105 minute runtimes with primary Energizer's. BTW they are protected batts.

    Link to these batteries
    They are 3/4 to way down the page by the charger picture.
    Last edited by Morelite; 04-25-2006 at 06:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    I can't resist but to put in my two cents

    I haven't tested anyone else's cells myself (I could be wrong) but I will make an educated guess that at this time NO manufacturer in China including the manufacturer of my cells at www.e-lectronics.net is anywhere near 900mAh on a rechargeable IC reduced 3 volt cell.

    The IC in these cells takes up about 6mm which is about 18% of a standard CR123 and don't forget the small energy loss from dropping voltage through an IC; I could be wrong but 900mAh just sounds way higher than technology offers today. And believe me when I say that you can have anything you want printed on a battery from China, based on conversations I have had with Chinese manufacturers I believe they get caught up in marketing trying to out do the last highest capacity "rating" with no regards to actual performance. For instance, I see a lot of retailers who advertise 1000 recharge cycles, I'm admittedly not a battery chemist but I don't believe many standard grade normal use Li-ion batteries are going to make it past 500 cycles and be worth using anymore(correct me if I'm wrong here). I am trying to explain to them that brand recognition of a quality well represented product is worth many times more than a one-off label claiming high capacity....sooner or later people test products and demystify false claims. This is a whole new theory to the Chinese manufacturers I have talked with. Don't get me wrong, some of their product is very good, I guess determining which ones is our job here at CPF.

    I personally believe in representing these cells exactly for what they are, I provide the best data of which I have personally collected and that shared by CPF'rs. You can see plotted performance of e-lectronics version of IC reduced versus a standard RCR123 HERE The best I can tell is that 600mAh is a good true value for these Chinese RCR123 3 volt IC reduced cells.

    I don't have all the answers about these cells but I'll share the ones I do.

    Does anyone have a set of these and a Maha 777 battery analyzer? I'd be interested to know what the capacity is too.....I'm guessing ~600

    Okay, maybe that was my 3 cents worth

    -Markcm
    Last edited by Markcm; 03-29-2006 at 12:58 AM.

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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    Looking forward to the results.
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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    I've never believed anything that is put on a package or spec page from a Chinese manufacturer. The claims are too far-fetched to be believable by any reasonable person.

    Insofar as the 1000 charge claim, that's stolen from the NiCD battery claims that have been around for a quarter century or more. The Chinese vendors use that same claim for both NiMH and LIon batteries. Vendors in the US that sell these batteries (or products using these batteries) are more likely to claim 500 and 300 respectively for those two chemistries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Markcm
    I can't resist but to put in my two cents

    I haven't tested anyone else's cells myself (I could be wrong) but I will make an educated guess that at this time NO manufacturer in China including the manufacturer of my cells at www.e-lectronics.net is anywhere near 900mAh on a rechargeable IC reduced 3 volt cell.

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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Markcm
    Does anyone have a set of these and a Maha 777 battery analyzer? I'd be interested to know what the capacity is too.....I'm guessing ~600
    I have some ordered, and I have a CBA II from West Mountain Radio. I'll post results when I get the batteries and have time to test them.
    Jim - Have lights, lead, and steel will travel

    The heck with runtime. I just want to hold the sun in my hands!! Brighter is Better!

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    Flashaholic Markcm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brighteyez
    I've never believed anything that is put on a package or spec page from a Chinese manufacturer. The claims are too far-fetched to be believable by any reasonable person.

    Insofar as the 1000 charge claim, that's stolen from the NiCD battery claims that have been around for a quarter century or more. The Chinese vendors use that same claim for both NiMH and LIon batteries. Vendors in the US that sell these batteries (or products using these batteries) are more likely to claim 500 and 300 respectively for those two chemistries.
    I have been having extensive discussions with my manufacturer recently regarding Chinese vs. American marketing. I stess to them that building a quality product and representing it well will go much further than a bogus label; they seem to be responding, my RCR123A 3.0IC are still marked 600mAh by my request.

    The Chinese manufacturers tend to believe that inflating the numbers will help the product sell, when one of them does it the next bumps it up a bit more yet the product has not changed at all . Then we have to test it to find out how well it really performs and then the brand gets a bad name for overstating the performance. 1000 cycles out of a Chinese manufactured Li-ion cell or 900mAh from a 17280 cell with 3 volt regulation speaks for its self. INFLATED!

    I do give my manufacturer some credit, they have recently been very interested in my input regarding what we consider appropriate marketing and design. I'm listening to the requests here at CPF and pass them on. Hopefully the outcome will be better represented products with design changes such as protruding + terminals on protected 18650 cells.

    -Markcm
    Last edited by Markcm; 01-15-2007 at 11:40 PM.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Markcm
    I have been having extensive discussions with my manufacturer recently regarding Chinese vs. American marketing. I stess to them that building a quality product and representing it well will go much further than a bogus label; they seem to be responding, my RCR123A 3.0IC are still marked 600mAh by my request.

    The Chinese believe that inflating the numbers will help the product sell, when one of them does it the next bumps it up a bit more yet the product has not changed at all . Then we have to test it to find out how well it really performs and then the brand gets a bad name for overstating the performance. 1000 cycles out of a Chinese manufactured Li-ion cell or 900mAh from a 17280 cell with 3 volt regulation speaks for its self. INFLATED!

    I do give my manufacturer some credit, they have recently been very interested in my input regarding what we consider appropriate marketing and design. I'm listening to the requests here at CPF and pass them on. Hopefully the outcome will be better represented products with design changes such as protruding + terminals on protected 18650 cells.

    -Markcm
    agree! quality is what we need

  27. #27
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    Exaggerated claims seems to have become more prevalent as the manufacturing economy in that region has grown over the last 25 years, starting with Hong Kong when it was still held by the Brits, then Taiwan, and now the mainland.

    Insofar as Tenergy is concerned, initial research seems to reveal that it is the US name of a California corporatin that grew out of All-Battery.com, rather than being the actual name of a manufacturer in China.

    Quote Originally Posted by Markcm
    The Chinese believe that inflating the numbers will help the product sell, when one of them does it the next bumps it up a bit more yet the product has not changed at all .
    Last edited by Brighteyez; 04-03-2006 at 01:00 PM.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    JimH - any updates on the testing of the Tenergy 900mAh R123As?
    Streamlight: TL-3 Xenon, Vital Stream Scorpion-FB1, Scorpion LED SSC P4, KeyMate Silver (Nichia CS)
    Nuwai: 2x QIII TWOH (Green and Titanium), TM-313X Ti (QV1J DD 14500)
    Surefire: M2+C2-HA+Detonator, E2D, VG FB1+EXe, VG FB3+E2C+C2
    Vital Gear F2, Huntlight FT01, Jetbeam Jet1 AA and 123A, Fenix E1 (Silver), Luxogen LR5A-3W & LR12 CR2 (SCC P4), Spiderfire LR8, NexTorch Z1, Gerber Infinity Ultra (2x Green), Dae's UV 12LED
    Emergency Kit & Knives Pics - Lights & Knives Pics - Small Knife/Lights

  29. #29
    Flashaholic* JimH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    When I bought the Tenergy R123's, I didn't buy a charger because I already had a couple of 3v chargers that I got with my 3v Ultralast R123's.

    Because of the circuitry to drop the voltage to around 3v, 3v R123's appear to be very finicky critters. The Ultralast chargers work fine on Ultrlast batteries, but would not charge the Tenergy batteries.

    I ordered some Tenergy 3v chargers and have just completed charging up some batteries. I'll try some tests tonight - if not tonight, then tomorrow.
    Jim - Have lights, lead, and steel will travel

    The heck with runtime. I just want to hold the sun in my hands!! Brighter is Better!

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

    Jim - thanks for the info on the finickyness of the 3.0 cells. That kinda sucks that each seller's/brand's cells require their own specific charger. Looking forward to your test results on the 900mAh Tenergys. I'm still on the fence if I want to get these as I have 3.6/3.7V R123As already and most my LED lights run fine on these. The 3.0V R123As would help drive my 2-cell LED lights tho...hmm..
    Streamlight: TL-3 Xenon, Vital Stream Scorpion-FB1, Scorpion LED SSC P4, KeyMate Silver (Nichia CS)
    Nuwai: 2x QIII TWOH (Green and Titanium), TM-313X Ti (QV1J DD 14500)
    Surefire: M2+C2-HA+Detonator, E2D, VG FB1+EXe, VG FB3+E2C+C2
    Vital Gear F2, Huntlight FT01, Jetbeam Jet1 AA and 123A, Fenix E1 (Silver), Luxogen LR5A-3W & LR12 CR2 (SCC P4), Spiderfire LR8, NexTorch Z1, Gerber Infinity Ultra (2x Green), Dae's UV 12LED
    Emergency Kit & Knives Pics - Lights & Knives Pics - Small Knife/Lights

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