AWR Hotdriver Regulated M6 Battery Pack

Please rate your interest in HD-M6


  • Total voters
    81

andrewwynn

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The prototype is operational..

Image-678926B7C90A11DA.jpg

Here's a picture.

The rest of the album is here

The sales thread is now open here


A step at a time.. i only made it voltage regulate to 6.8V for starters because it is a bit tedious to get the current limiting working, but voila! it works just as designed!

Some bad news.. the space is exttreeeeemly tight.. i have to find out the length on the cells i'm going to procure but it might mean i can't do the swappable driver board.. i think that adds 1.8mm and that just won't fit.. I do have a backup plan to get another 1-2mm.. if it didn't bother you that the tailcap would not be screwed on as far (still both o-rings would seal and you would not see them, but when 'locked out' you would likely see the o-ring groove.

I have to work on other stuff for a bit, but expect to get the current limiting (so you can swap between HOLA and LOLA w/o changing settings)..

So i need to get some feedback for demand, also interest for the swappable battery pack (one driver, two packs, etc), so please take the poll.. pricing will depend a little bit on demand.. need some quantity discount for the metal machine work.

The pack will run the HOLA lamp for about 35 minutes, God only knows how long on the LOLA..... long.

Oh.. some might not like this.. but the button is FAR easier to operate.. you can have it near 'lockout' and it still takes a good throw and decent effort to turn on, but if you have it nearly locked on.. feather touch will turn on the lamp.

-awr
 
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brightnorm

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Oct 13, 2001
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Andrew,

I had hoped to get an extra tailcap but Surefire keeps repeating "4-6 weeks" every four to six weeks. I would still be interested as long as the tailcap mod is easily reversible.

Also, will the production pack be wrapped, sealed and beta-tested?

Brightnorm
 

petrev

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Hi Andrew

Brilliant to see the first prototype already.

Can't work out your assembly/wiring if the centre bar is solid all the way through ?

Patented slip contact - BodyNeg (and head outer ring ?)
Batt Pos at tail copper disk

Then ? ? ?
Body/Batt Neg in via tail switch to centre rod ?
and
Bulb Pos out at head from centre rod ?

Hmmm - I'm missing something - but looks awesome and it fits, and more to the point, it works

Brilliantly Done

Ta Pete


Edit
ps. Looked at the photos further . . .

Is this it ? centre rod - Bulb pos
and
Little white wire - switched neg in from tailcap (somehow) ?

or am I still missing something - Cheers Pete
 
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nuggett

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Swappable driver is not that important to me, I would rather the cap fit well.
I have an M6 and use it all the time, cant wait for this amazing pack!
So the cap button is touchy? It can be locked out, correct? But when unlocked, its a hair trigger?
 
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elnino

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Nov 21, 2005
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Andrew, I am very interested in your regulated HDM6. My preference is for the swappable battery pack. And I would not like to have to modify my existing tailcap, so I will need one of yours.
 

CM

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6.8V? Seems a bit low, though I haven't tested the stock pack voltage under load. Have you compared output to high quality, fresh CR123's?

Paypal locked and loaded.
 

cnjl3

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I am definitely interested in your M6 solution. I have an M6 which is collecting dust and I sure would like to use it more often. I remember you said that it would be producing about 600 lumens. i would prefer a switchable battery pack and i will buy one of your tail cap assembly-is your tail cap modification the same as wquiles?
 

brightnorm

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elnino said:
...And I would not like to have to modify my existing tailcap, so I will need one of yours.

Andrew,

I didn't realize you had extra tailcaps. In that case, after you have established the reliability and safety of this mod, I'm in.

Brightnorm
 
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nethiker

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Hi Andrew,

I'm certainly interested.

As soon as I have my Nano I will look forward to your next project, but not before.
 

andrewwynn

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brightnorm.. it will take only seconds to swap the tail cup out of a stock tailcap in-fact i just added a feature to make it even easier (since though it's easy to pull out the stock one.. the new one was reaaaally hard to pull out.. nothing to grab onto!).. glad i had that prototype made.. talk about doding a bullet!

Yes the production packs will be shrink-wrapped and since it'll take about an extra month to get the metal part you'll need the packs will have about an extra month so i'll be able to get some serious testing (besides the first prototype and a couple more that will be made from the rougher hand-modified version).

Petrev, the center bar is a solid rod, it is the Lamp+ conducftor.. to convert the hotdriver to work in the M6, the ground path for the lamp is cut (trace on the pcb) and the FET is moved out of the way a little bit.. then only the lamp+ remains in the center, the rod conducts power to the lamp.

The slip-contact is the ground.. i think you assumed that the batteries are + in, they are negative in.

The copper disk against the PCB is Bat+.. there is a contact pad on the back of the PCB that makes contact with the copper disk (the insulation on the copper disk is cut in one spot to make contact).

The 'little white wire' is just the 'makeshift' solution.. it would be a spring contact similar to the ground path contact.

How it works: the battery pack is grounded all the time to the body with the sliding contact. The pack fits tight against the tailcup, which will act as a heat sink for the FET since it actually touches. (i cheated on the prototype to use that hair wire to also make the ground contact for the tailcup).. The tailcup only makes contact with the body when the button is pressed or the tailcap is screwed on.

The bulb spring is actually what makes it work.. the battery pack moves a mm or so with the tailcap.. just like with the original stock M6 (the battery pack floats between two springs and moves in /out just a bit while you are working the tailcap.. i might have room for an actual spring on the back depending on the final arangment (if i can get the extra space to make the driver swappable).

Wquiles.. that *is* your M6 in the pictures! check your email.

nugget.. best of all worlds.

1) absoutely the LOTC works as it's supposed to
2) only 'touchy' if you decide you want it.

Basiccally it has 4 modes:

1) locked out
2) normal operation.. long press of the button.. maybe 1/2 the old force
3) hair-trigger.. where the tailcup is almost touching.. takes so little force to turn on that setting down on a table will cause a 'blink'.
4) Locked on.

elnino.. i'm going to sell the pack with the tailcup exclusively.. the only advantage for somebody to modify their own tailcup would be they could maybe get their pack a month earlier.

CM.. 6.8 was an arbitrary test voltage.. i'm pretty sure that's what is the recommended dose for the HOLA lamp, and what JS uses for his M6-R.. not my lamp, no intentions of blowing it up... that is the voltage for the HOLA, not the LOLA.. the setting will be more like 7.2 for the LOLA which .. yes it could be brighter that is the 'average' voltage from what i understand but i'm using a 7.2V pack so that's what i got.. it'll be a hellova lot brighter than running it at 6.8 if i were to use strictly voltage limiting.

The reality is.. that the voltage won't be limited on the HOLA if phase 2 goes properly.. the plan is to make it regulate to current for the HOLA at about 4.9A.. the voltage will just work itself out to about 6.8-6.9V.. and regulate to voltage to 7.2V when the LOLA is installed... completely automatic.

The output will kick the snot out of CR123s. It might look 'about the same' for 0-minute-old CR123s.. it will blow away 1 minute old 123s.

I might be convinced to make an 'extra hot' version for people willing to trade bulb life for brightness.. but it's not really worth it.. the light will be brighter than you've ever seen it with this pack compared to toss away cells.

LOL cnjl3.. wquiles made his tailcap from my computer model of the one i will be having machined.

There is a very small chance that i can't get away with constant current limiting, the o-scope will reveal all.. but the testing earlier was very positive that it will work out just fine.. if i can't make it work at both 7.2V and 6.8V automatically.. i have two options..

1) scrap LOLA operation and just set up for the HOLA. (or i would of course make one for just LOLA for somebody that only used LOLA.. they can always put the MB20 back in to run the HOLA.
2) put in a switch to change between HOLA and LOLA.. but that's a bit risky.. left on the LOLA setting it will most certainly blow a HOLA.

Updates through the week.. might not be able to get to the next step for a few days.

-awr
 

petrev

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Hi Andrew

Yes - mostly as per my PS. now that I see the FET is taller than the centre rod it all makes sense ( that was what had me confused - Honest)

Great Work

Pete
 

LuxLuthor

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QUOTE=brightnorm Andrew,

I had hoped to get an extra tailcap but Surefire keeps repeating "4-6 weeks" every four to six weeks. I would still be interested as long as the tailcap mod is easily reversible.

Also, will the production pack be wrapped, sealed and beta-tested?

Brightnorm /QUOTE
Maybe I'm being too jaded, but if I look at it from SF's perspective, you have to assume SF is monitoring this thread, and thinking how it may impact their 123a sales...and how providing a flurry of M6 tailcaps will negatively impact their 123a sales. It ties in with the coincidence of no delivery date of MN-20 (60 min run time with 123a's) bulbs being available, and the recent hefty 123a price hike.
 

andrewwynn

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That goes a little too far into conspiracy theory.. it is quite amazing, however that the MN20 lights have been MIA for waaaay too long.. there is no valid reason for a corporation as big as SF to have such a delay on such a product. The only thing that i can think of that would be an acceptable excuse is if they are developing a more economical solution like a IRC bulb that would last longer.

I personally think there is a 'status quo' situation going on more than anything with the M6.. if they can sell them and the batteires, and make $ at it, there is no motivational forces within to make them make the likes of the M6-R.. they SHOULD have from the onset. There is virtually ZERO benefit from using throw away batteries.

LiON tech is easier and cheaper in every single way. It is NOT easier or cheaper or more reliable to have a bunch of batteries in the truck.. it would be far easier and far cheaper to have 2 or three of the likes of the HDM6 charged up and ready to go in the truck.. you'd have 6x the runtime available and not have to worry about changing cells all the time.. they stay charged for MONTHS, so big deal.. maintenence would be far less than swapping the cells.

Oh.. petrev.. the center rod wouldn't touch anything anyhow.. there is a hole up inside the tailcup in the center.

-awr
 

andrewwynn

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keeps getting better and better.. i just read this from emilion's website:

emilion said:
Our test shows that the DLG 17500's capacity has reached 1260mah under 2A current draw.

So.. wow! we will only be pulling 1.63A so this bodes VERY well for the HDM6..
1260 means nearly a 3.8AH pack.. how often do cells deliver more than rated capacity? Now i wouln't go assuming your cells will pull more than rated, but some of the cells pulled from the pipeline going into this have.. this would net you about 45 minutes with HOLA! that is incredible!

More good news.. the swappable board is a sure thing. I have 2mm to spare in the current design, which should give me enough room to use protected cells, and gobs of spare room to fit the unprotected cells... before 'going to press' i will of course get the final length of the protected cells.. i'm thinking.. that if can't fit the protected cells *and* the swappable pack.. i will have the option of having the raw cells with swappable driver or the fixed driver and protected cells.

I will point out that the driver offers the protection against over discharge.. and as long as you recognize the cells are going bad by the loss of runtime and replace them before they go completely dead, you should not have a problem from using raw cells.

I had to make a minor change in the design.. the ground sweep contact will be moved to the driver and there will be a solid rod going from the bottom 'neg' pad on the bottom.. turns out that only disconnecting the driver ground interferes with the low-voltage cutout.. bummer that i need to have that extra wire but i had expected to use that extra wire to run power up from the inside when i had the batteries positive in. It will be a 10ga solid copper wire so there will be absolutely negligable loss.. that works out to about 0.3mohm of resistance.

So.. disaster aveted... when i put in the low-voltage ckt and it disabled the startup i was not too happy.. i hate hiccups like that! (the light would run just fine if i turned it on before putting into the lamp.. but if i switched the ground off and on it wouldn't light up... aaaaaahhhh!

That could have easily been a 2-3 week delay and i solved it in under 2 hrs... extremely good news.

Also.. i like the idea of the sweeping contact being on the driver vs the pack (though i do have to solder a 10ga wire to the disc on the bottom of the pack).. that'll be the most tedius part of assembly.

So.. 'game on'.. i'll get the prototype retrofitted to the new design within a couple of days.. once i get the go-ahead on the cells and know how long they are and that the'll fit.. i'll be ready to open up an orderline.

"I love it when a plan comes together".

The idea of using the lamp spring for the action just came to me as the space got so tight that there really wasn't an option.. i still was considering to put in a tailcap spring of some sort but this thing is working flawlessly without any spring in the back.

The plan is to make the hole in the tailcup the right size that should you need to use the MB20 you can just put in a replacement spring that is a bit longer than stock.. i will source some of said springs.. i have some really nice silver coated springs i get for a buck from sandwich shoppe that should be perfect. i just need to machine a nice groove that they will snap into into the tailcup... so for 'backup' use keep the MB20 and that spring taped to it in your glovebox or whatever.. you won't have to swap out the part just to use primary cells.

Here is where the 'really decent guy' of me comes in.. the PIR is a lot thicker than the hotdriver.. it would be exceptionally easy to make that replacement part too short to be of any use with somebody wanting to use the PIR in an M6, but i'm taking into consideration how i would be able to use the PIR in an M6.. I would probably have to cut a hole in the positive copper disc to put that tall part on the non-FET side and almost certainly will have to replace the FET with a D2PAK, other than that i's just a matter of figuring out how to wire it up.. and i think petrev already figured it out.. very similar to the HDM6, just reversed the + and - are opposite since on PIR the FET is 'downstream' of the lamp.

So.. that's good news for PIR guys as well. I promised i'd be kind when it came to helping get PIR into an M6... it won't make it a 'cake walk'.. w/o re-doing the PIR it will be tricky to get the battery pack solution.. it really need a 2.6mm hole in the dead-center and a 6mm clearing around the hole for a nut on at least one side. Some clever moving of the FET (copy the hotdriver) and it's definitely doable!

Off to the lab.. nano switch day today.

-awr
 

Geologist

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As far as the SF conspiracy theory - one must also consider that there are many of ethusiasts who have *NOT* bought a M6 due to the battery issue and not having an easy way to make it rechargable (most of my SF's are using rechargables). Plus it is not like Andrew is going to be producing these packs in any quanity that SF would even care about.

In regards to SF bulb availability - remember there is a war going on!

Finally Andrew I am very interested in this project of yours. I hope it becomes possible to design it so that the circuit can be used with battery packs to control costs. Once you have an inventory of these packs, I will buy my M6 and your battery pack. Good luck!
 

andrewwynn

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great point about where those MN20s likely are!

My pack requires an M6.. if i make 10,000 of them, SF should be happy as hell to sell 10,000 M6s.. they can't loose.. just like the BAM!.. needs a Maglite host.. mag has nothing to lose.

Not to worry.. looks like i solved the issue of swapping the driver board... it's really clever too i can't wait to get it operational with the swappable model.

It is 0.7mm taller to have the swappable version.. and i have 2mm to spare with raw cells with the current design.. so if the protected cells are less than 0.65mm taller each i'm good to go with either protc. or raw cells.

-awr
 
T

Thiokol

Guest
Please count me in for at least 2 . I prefer to make my tailcups, especially if it means receiving them faster :).

This is gonna be fantastic !!!

Thanks.
 
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