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Thread: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

  1. #1
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    Kiessling's Avatar
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    Default LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    Shootout time again.

    This one is similar to an older thread I did a while ago:

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ad.php?t=96686

    (The two shootouts aren't directly comparable as they do not have a controlled environment and the setting is slightly different. You can use the lights that appear in both to judge the lights that don't)


    The difference is that the lights are now brighter and there are considerably more incans present. Just like the last time, the set-up is a dirty one:







    I am choosing dirty and unfavourable scenes to simulate real life as closely as possible and in order to challenge the lights to the max.


    The lights are held at about 1.20m above ground by my Living Light Holding Apparatus (wife) again and shot at the target from the left side of the camera in order to be able to see some of the tighter corona cut-offs on the ground before the camera.

    The target itself is the orange thingie hidden behind some branches in the background. Right below it in the line of sight is a dirty concrete wall that was the target for the last shootout and is in fact about 5 meters nearer than the orange target itself. This time the lights are stronger and the weaklings had to stay at home, so the target is more difficult … and allows thus for a better judgement of the size of the hotspot and the depth of field in conjunction with the concrete wall.

    All the trees and things in the area allow you to judge the width and power of the corona.

    Just like the last time there is some light pollution present, some more evident from the pics, some less.


    Camera settings are fixed with white-balance set to daylight. Lights were on fresh batteries or using freshly charged Li-Ion power sources. All pics have been made brighter by 6 steps in my software to make them easier to view. This does not change the relative data and a comparison is still valid.


    I’ll shut up now and let the pics speak for themselves. Any questions about specific lights are welcome of course.





    SF A2 on 2xCR123







    Aleph1 TW0K SDC1000 by ARCmania on 2xCR123







    Aleph3 NG750 TY0J on Li-Ion







    ARCmania TowerModule WX1S at 700mA



    (Please note that this is a conservative version of Mike’s TM)





    SF E2D on 2xCR123







    HD45 UX1S Wiz2x2 917mA; Joker-LED; 2xCR123







    HD45 WX1S NBBx2 at 700mA; 2xCR123







    SF KL3 gen2 on C2 Centurion; 2xCR123







    SF L4 on 2xCR123







    SF L5 on Li-Ion







    SF L6-P on 3xCR123







    LedLenser Tactical Light; Luxeon LED on 3xC-Cell







    McLux-PR X3T BB750 on 2xCR123







    SF P60 in M2 on 2xCR123







    SF N1 in KT2 on C2 Centurion 2xCR123







    SF N2 in KT2 on C3 Centurion 3xCR123







    SF MN16 in KT2 on C3 Centurion 3xCR123







    SF P90 in M2 on C3 Centurion 3xCR123







    SF P91 in M2 on C3 Centurion 3xCR123







    PILA 3,7V Lamp on Li-Ion







    SF U2 highest level on 2xCR123



    (Please note that this U2 is my new “perfect” U2 and kicks butt much better than the one in the old shootout )





    SF M6 LOLA on 6xCR123







    SF M6 HOLA on 6xCR123







    IMHO the difference in beam characteristics of the various lights is rather obvious and quite pronounced. Lots of choices for sure.


    There are two other observations I just have to make, even if they are painful for me as a LED-guy:

    1) incans are just simply brighter, and the M6 HOLA is the King

    2) LED color rendition still sucks, even for the “pure white” ones


    BUT … we can also see that LEDs obviously can throw quite well, especially when their smaller overall luminous flux is considered.


    AND … I dare to say … incan is more or less dead in the 2xCR123 application. Performance-wise I mean. Personal preference and color aside.


    Thanx for looking!


    Bernie



    P.S.: one last thing … my U2 really rocks!

    P.P.S: I am sorry that those pics are a bit less optimal in quality than those of the last shootout ... if I knew why I could do better in the future.


    Edit for clarification of color rendition:
    ... the fixed white balance of "daylight" in this shootout actually makes things a bit worse than they are in reality ... some sort of overemphasize ... the LEDs aren't that bad and cold (you can actually see a red car in real life), and incans aren't that warm either. The difference between the two is exaggerated with my camera.
    Last edited by Kiessling; 04-20-2006 at 05:08 PM.
    There is a type of perfection that transcends the quest for lumens. Buying a $250 1-cell light for "lum factor" is like buying a $250 single malt Scotch for the alcohol content.
    - paulr


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    My shoes are too tight. But it doesn't matter, because I have forgotten how to dance.

  2. #2
    Flashaholic* dragoman's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    looks great, thanks for taking the time to do that. At least for me, this type of shootout is much better at telling me the "real world" difference between an M6 and a 6P......

    The A2 holds up okay for what it is, can't wait to get mine.....guess a G2 ain't too far away either...

    dragoman

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    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    Wow, I think I may need to start saving for an M6.... Great job Kiessling, thanks much for doing this for everyone.
    ~Mini-Moder~

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    Unenlightened Stumpy's Avatar
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    Cool Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    Excellent job and great pics for comparing the various lights.The M6 looks like the sun has risen.

  5. #5
    *Flashaholic* jtice's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    Great post ! Your shots are always good, thanks.

    I think I want an A3, and a 5W TH Module.... damn you

    ~John

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    Flashaholic* KDOG3's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    Good gravy, that M6 HOLA is SICK! I'm suprised you didn't catch anything on fire with that one!

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    *Flashaholic* CLHC's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    Very nice comparo shots Bernie. Thanks!
    LUX'Ottica

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    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    Great shots, Kiessling! Thanks.
    The only light I need now is the "light at the end of the tunnel".....

  9. #9

    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    Those are great pics! Now, for us newbies, could you line up all of the flashlights you used in the beamshot pics and take a picture of them so that we could see the relative size of each light? Please? Pretty please?

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    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    Excellent pics! I really liked the way you had a diagram of the environment you chose. Yeah, I need a SF M6 like everyone else but what I'm very suprised by is your SF U2. How did you get one like that? That sucker is BRIGHT and beat the SF L6. Do all SF U2's have that good balance of flood and throw? If so, I think I need a U2 myself. Know where I can get one just like yours? Thanks for doing the beamshots.
    Looking for a Z52 tailcap LOTC with witness marker on the edge where it meets the body. I prefer email over PM, por favor.

  11. #11
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    Lightbulb Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    Makes me wish there was an M6 type light out there that took 3 "D" size lithium batteries instead of 6 low capacity (for the application) CR123A's. All six CR123A's have to be perfect or the light will choke. Even if they're perfect the HOLA will only go for 20 minutes. Anybody ever run an M6 for more than 10 minutes? From what I understand it seems like they always go into thermal shutdown.

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    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    Good post Kiessling,
    these shots will help me greatly in my purchase evals.
    Thank you,
    Jay

  13. #13
    Flashaholic* GhostReaction's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    This thread made the incan still look good and worth buying. HOLA
    Lights were once incandescent. And halogen bulb were great

  14. #14
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    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    looks good...thanks Bernie!!!

    The way I look at is that the LEDs are looking like somewhat comparable to the power of the incans with similar amount of power consumed... I'll always have my incans but the warmer tinted LEDs are looking better by the day.
    "a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen." -Warren vs District of Columbia, after three women were raped, beaten for 14 hours and police never came after numerous 911 calls were placed

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    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostReaction
    This thread made the incan still look good and worth buying. HOLA

    Current 'high powered' LED's like Lux5's are a joke IMO compared to incans or HID's for serious use. LED's are getting better all the time though. But I think they have a looooong way to go yet.

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    Flashaholic* Delvance's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    Great shots Kiessling! Wow, there sure are some nice LED throwers out there, but i think the incan shots show why i have moved into incans/hotwires for the moment. Thanks for sharing!

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    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    Great post! Thanks for all the shots. But I think the A2 Aviator is still tops in the 2xCR123 area.

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    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    Quote Originally Posted by InfidelCastro
    Makes me wish there was an M6 type light out there that took 3 "D" size lithium batteries instead of 6 low capacity (for the application) CR123A's. All six CR123A's have to be perfect or the light will choke. Even if they're perfect the HOLA will only go for 20 minutes. Anybody ever run an M6 for more than 10 minutes? From what I understand it seems like they always go into thermal shutdown.
    Sounds like you're ready to get into Mag mods

  19. #19
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    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    Excellent work Bernie - thanks for taking it on, and please give our regards to your Living Light Holding Apparatus as well . That A3 rocks in the throw department, and as it happens I got one of them myself running at 1000 mA

    Jan

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    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    Thanx guys

    cosine ... sorry, I can't ... because I do not own all thos elights seperately, I had to switch heads, lamps and battery packs to be able to shoot this one.
    Which lights are you interested in? If you could narrow it down to only a few lights maybe I can come up with a comparison shot ... it will be my pleasure!

    supes ... I got that killer-U2 with cold hard cash via a WTB-thread a few weeks ago. The beam shape is typical for a U2, but it is a very very bright and white one with virtually no donut.
    Grubbster is selling one that sounds very nice with a money-back guarantee (!!) here:
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=114978

    270winchester ... I think the LEDs in the 2x123 applications have better performance characteristics than the incans, but the color rendition is less optimal. But we'll get there soon I hope ... and incan will be a thing of the past
    However ... if you want some real punch ... well ... forget LED. For now.

    a99raptors ... yepp, the A2 is one hell of a light, I agree. I was very reluctant about this one for a long time, but it is a champ in form, function and beauty. And a regulated incan is great!

    bernie
    There is a type of perfection that transcends the quest for lumens. Buying a $250 1-cell light for "lum factor" is like buying a $250 single malt Scotch for the alcohol content.
    - paulr


    It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black.
    My shoes are too tight. But it doesn't matter, because I have forgotten how to dance.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    cosine ... here are the shots I have that contain one or more of the lights involved:


    SF L4 - Peli M6 - HD45 - Aleph 3 with 2x123 pack



    McLuxPR head on SF E2e with Aleph 2-stage Tailcap






    SF C3 Centurion body with KT2 Turbo-Head and SW02 tailcap



    SF KL5 head (like on L5 light) on custom TB-18650-tube (Li-Ion) with Aleph 2-stage Tailcap



    SF U2



    SF M6



    SF L6-P



    SF E2D









    bernie
    There is a type of perfection that transcends the quest for lumens. Buying a $250 1-cell light for "lum factor" is like buying a $250 single malt Scotch for the alcohol content.
    - paulr


    It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black.
    My shoes are too tight. But it doesn't matter, because I have forgotten how to dance.

  22. #22
    Flashaholic* EV_007's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    I like when people take the time to do beamshots. Well done.

    Man that M6 is awesome! Wish it had a low, medium and high level output.
    TWO is ONE and ONE is NONE, but THREE is more FUN.
    My beamshot gallery


  23. #23
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    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    Thank for the beamshots, I agree and love seeing beamshots it makes me want to go out and buy more lights which l will be doing soon. I still perfer incandecents over LEDS, But I will still buy both as long as they are nice and bright with a great beam shot.
    The Lord Jesus said " I am the light of the world", whoever believes in him shall never die. God is the greatest and brightest light in the universe, follow him.

  24. #24

    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    Thanks for the beamshots, Bernie!

  25. #25
    Flashaholic* skalomax's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    How does the L6 compare to all the other lights i see the A2 is not as birhgt as the others, well thats what i think!

  26. #26
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    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    Simply stunning.

    Nice work,and many thanks for all the effort, must have been kinda fun to do.

    Make a handy refrence for some lights to see thier outputs, i have been trying to save up for a couple of these and this makes it a bit easier to do., and the wait longer,hehe.

    Should be a sticky almost.



    IF
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  27. #27
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    Thumbs up Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    That must've been a lot of work. Thanks very much for doing it---it is a very helpful reference.

  28. #28

    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    Thanks for the pictures of the actual flashlights! Now that I have a better idea of size I really want either an A2 or an L4. (haven't decided yet)

  29. #29

    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    Incan does provide much better color in wild. Those beam shots really surprise me the most is the U2.

    It is better than i thought it would be.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: LED and Incan BEAMSHOTS !!

    skalomax ... the L6 is with the others in this shootout ... it is a "ram of light" with a tighter corona than the incans and a bigger yet softer hotspot. I prefer this beam, but it is not a throw king.

    The A2 can't match most of the other lights in this shootout, true ... BUT ... it is also one of the smaller lights and uses 2xCR123 while the big guns use either more power or have less runtime. The A2 is one of the hottest lights arounf for sure ... as it can do what none of the others here can ... which is to change beam angle from the 5mm flood to the incan spot.


    Quote Originally Posted by IonFire
    ...must have been kinda fun to do.
    Depends on who you ask ... my wife would tell you something that doesn't exactly include the word "fun" ...


    cosine ... both the A2 and L4 are great lights, but they are different ... the A2 has much more throw and offers a low with a floody beam whereas the L4 is a pure flood light ... and needs a 2-stage tailcap to be perfect.


    wuyeah ... the U2 is a great light, but this U2 is an especially great performer. It is my most liked light, so I am biased towards the U2 ...

    bernie
    There is a type of perfection that transcends the quest for lumens. Buying a $250 1-cell light for "lum factor" is like buying a $250 single malt Scotch for the alcohol content.
    - paulr


    It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black.
    My shoes are too tight. But it doesn't matter, because I have forgotten how to dance.

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