Li-Ion Battery Shoot Out

[SilverFox]

This has been a long time coming, but here it is. I have finally put enough data together to present a comparison of some of the Li-Ion cells that are available. This will be an ongoing project and I will add cells as I get them.

I would like to acknowledge Mike at Pacific Tactical Solutions for the MicroFire and Wolf Eyes cells, Jon Burly for the Pila cells, AW for the AW cells, and Codeman for a variety of R-CR123 cells.

Here is some data to review…


MicroFire










Pila










Wolf Eyes










A while back, Pila and Wolf Eyes batteries were basically the same. Since Pila has re-designed their cells, the question has come up as to whether they are still the same as the Wolf Eyes. It appears that the 300 and 600 cells are different from the old Pila 150 and 168 cells.

Some have observed that their lights that would work with the old Pila cells, no longer work with the new Pila cells. It appears that the new Pila cells have a PTC that has a little bit lower shut off value than the old Pila or the Wolf Eyes cells.

The cells used for the MicroFire, Pila, Wolf Eyes, AW, and LG tests were all charged on the new Pila IBC charger.


AW




LG




Tenergy




Xpea sent me a Samsung ICR 18650 28A cell to check out. These didn’t quite live up to their advertised 2800 mAh capacity, but they seem to be strong performers. At 6 amps the cell was heating up a lot, so I stopped testing there.

Here is the Samsung data




Icantsee sent me some Emoli cells to check out. These are 26700 size, so they are a little larger than what we have been used to, but if you can figure out a way to use them, they are solid performers. 15 amps is no problem for these cells, and you can push them harder. At 20 amps they started to heat up, so I stopped there. These are also referred to as Molicells, and I believe they are the IMR26700 cells. Milwaukee tools use these cells in their 28 volt tools. They are Lithium Manganese Oxide, so they are more tolerant of overcharge. Here is the Molicell press release for these cells.

In the press release, they are listed as 3000 mAh capacity, but the cells that I tested had 2900 mAh on them, I think. Perhaps Icantsee can check that out when he gets his cells back.

Thanks Icantsee.

Here is the Emoli data




Here is some R-CR123 data...


LightHound




AW




BatteryStation




Powerizer




It has come to my attention (thanks Chevrofreak and Flea Bag) that the graphs of the R-CR123 tests are difficult to compare because of the difference in Y axis ranges on the graphs. Looking at the graphs without paying close attention to the voltage scale, it would appear that the AW cells fall off drastically, compared to the Powerizer cells.

The Y axis of the graphs is selected to zoom in as much as possible on the data, yet still allow the legend to be read without overlapping the graph lines. As more tests are combined in a single graph, the legend size grows. To accommodate the larger legend size, the Y axis is extended.

I apologize for any confusion resulting from this.

Here is a comparison graph of the R-CR123 cells tested above utilizing the same Y axis scale.





Tom

[LEDcandle]

Great job as usual Tom!!
Looks like the Microfire's hold up in the high currents (5A), but the Pilas crash.

[Navck]

Are MP cells in this, with some generic R123 protected cells?

[cy]

thanks for all the work!!!

[AlexGT]

Great work Tom! Very informative

AlexGT

[SilverFox]

Update:

One of the main reasons for starting this thread was to compare the new Pila cells with the Wolf Eyes cells. Also, to look at other cells that are available, such as those from AW and the LG cells.

I will add to this as I get new cells to test.

Tom

[Sway]

Very useful information Tom, thanks!

Later
Kelly

[liteMANIAC]

I'm not qite sure how to interpret these graphs. Could someone give me a quick explination on how to understand it all. Also im interested in getting a u85, so how do i use the graphs to find out the best cell for it?

[Bullzeyebill]

Who makes MicroFire batteries. They look better than Pila, or WolfEyes. Hold voltage better than LG 2400's.

Bill

[oldschoolripper]

On the rcr123's:

Is the powerizer non protected and the AW's and Batt Station are?

I like the consistancy at different current draws on the powerizer be it's not worth it if their not protected.

I'm looking for some rechargables for my Big Q3 and I thought AW's might be good, but now I'm not so sure. They have poor performance at higher current draws.

[LEDcandle]

Looks like the 123 size batts can't even do up to 2C... and AW's 123s look like they can't hold even mildly higher current, although his 17500 is quite good.

This seems consistent with my set of AW 17500s, which at a 1amp regulated draw, last about 66mins.

I'm not qite sure how to interpret these graphs. Could someone give me a quick explination on how to understand it all. Also im interested in getting a u85, so how do i use the graphs to find out the best cell for it?

Hey liteMANIAC,

Firstly, each graph represents a different battery being tested. Check out the title of the graph to confirm what brand of batt and what capacity it has.

Then, in each graph, each battery is being put under different discharge loads to test how they hold up. The bigger batts are tested under 1 - 5A loads, while the smaller ones, 0.5 - 2A loads.

In the "legend" box on the top of the graph, you can see how the batt fares under each load. E.g :-

LG 18650 2400 mah
1A - 2.243Ah, 8.203Wh, 134.6M
5A - 1.978Ah, 6.428Wh, 23.7M

This means at a 1 Amp load, the LG battery actually has about 2243 actual mah capacity (as opposed to their rating of 2400) and can last for 134.6 mins.

When put under a heavier load (5 Amps), it is effectively only 1978 actual mah and can last for 23.7 mins. Not too bad if you notice how some other batteries totally "crash" at higher Amps.

I'll let someone else chip in on Watt hours as I'm not too sure how to explain that myself. I guess it's the power it can produce in an hour.

For deciding which batt is best, find out how much current ur light draws, then choose a batt that has the highest capacity at that current. But of course you may switch that batt to other lights in future, so maybe look for something good in all areas.

[onthebeam]

Hi Silverfox,

Kudos and thanks!

I'm glad you switched to charts rather than graphs for your rankings of other battery types. Adding charts here, with a comparison chart for each battery type, would really be helpful, too.

Also, perhaps a small listing of which battery type=replacement for which type of standard battery would be great. AW does this and it's easy to see that a 14500 replaces a AA for example.

Are you working on any CR2 battery comparisons??

[liteMANIAC]

LEDcandle thanks for the explination, very helpful.

[Paul_in_Maryland]

Tom,
For the record, I used to state that MicroFire cells are protected. I've since come to understand that they're unprotected. Can you verify this?

[SilverFox]

Hello Paul,

That is correct. The MicroFire cells are unprotected.

Tom

[leukos]

I'm impressed with Powerizer's RCR-123's.

[BentHeadTX]

Thanks Silver,
I find the results for the AW sort of depressing but they work well with my FF3 so I won't replace them any time soon. Maybe when an RCR123 can acutally push and amp for one hour (1,000mAH) I'll make the jump. As always, great graphs and useful information to keep everything in focus.

[wtraymond]

I'm impressed with Powerizer's RCR-123's.

The Powerizer RCR123s certainly perform better than the other RCR123s tested, especially at higher amp draws. They are very good at maintaining their voltage at 2 amps too!

[TheSteve]

Lots of useful information in this thread - should be stickied.

Just to add some info:

I recently bought some lithium ion rechargable CR123s off ebay advertised as 1000ma - I knew it was too good to be true but thought I'd see just how close they came.(99 cents plus shipping for a pair)
At a 1 amp discharge rate they provided 605ma of capacity from 4.20 volts to 3 volts. Not even close to the 1000ma listed capacity but better then a lot of other rechargable CR123s.

[hord]

This thread is too good to loose in the mix... so

[chevrofreak]

Have you tried any of the purple colored "LIR123 800mAh" cells that Dae has? I bought some a while back and they perform quite well for me. Theres no way they're 800mAh, but they should be atleast 650.

[chevrofreak]

I'm looking for some rechargables for my Big Q3 and I thought AW's might be good, but now I'm not so sure. They have poor performance at higher current draws.

If by "Big Q3" you mean the Nuwai TM-301X-3, you can't use 3.7/4.2v cells in it without burning it out.

[FlashlightPhreak]

Great job Silverfox !

[grift]

the powerizers arent protected are they? if anyone knows for sure please let me know. gonna order some asap but not if unprotected.

[Bullzeyebill]

grift, no the Powerizers are not protected. Don't let the unprotected aspect of the Powerizer's daunt you. Don't know what you would use RCR123's for, but the Powerizer's are good for single cell application's, particularly if the light has an LDO circuit, such as Chameleon, and HDS's. Also are good in series with Surefire A2. I have used them in incan applications, such as running the P90 LA, but I monitor the voltage status of the cells, and shut down the light when it noticeably dims.

Bill

[John N]

Thanks very much Tom!

Any plans to run the following cells:

- LG 18650, unprotected, 2600mAH
- MP 17670, unprotected, 1500mAh (AW)
- GMB 18650, unprotected, 2200mAh (AW)

It might also be interesting to be able to compare best of breed unprotected 17670 (1500mAh AFAIK) vs a protected 17650 since these are sized for the same application.

Thanks,

-john

[grift]

Bill,

thanks for the info. id mainly be using it in my HDS like you said. so i'll order some up i believe. got 4 of the battery station ones now but never hurts to have a few more and test which is better. how would they perform in a Surefire M3? would it burn the lamp out? im sure it would w/3 in series? also to protect the battery dont ya need to turn them off when they dim down alot?

[CroMAGnet]

Very nice! Thanx a lot!

So those Powerizer RCR123 are pretty awesome or am I not reading something correctly?

Where can we get them?

[chevrofreak]

CroMAGnet, the Powerizer graph is a bit deceptive because the voltage scale is different than all of the other graphs, it makes the line appear flatter than the others.

I just got some of the LG 2400mAh 18650's the other day and these things are pretty impressive. They run way longer than a pair of primary cells in the SureFire U2 on high.

[TinderBox (UK)]

my maha777plus seems to put a lot more charge in my RC123 battery`s than my DSD charger.

I can take an fully charged battery from my DSD charger, and charge it in my MAHA, and it will put another 230ma into the battery.

the voltage when the MAHA is finished is 4.27v is this a little high.

even if you consider an 20% loss, 180ma is not bad, but it takes a long time to charge though.

edit: my DSD charger only chargers to 3.98volts.

regards.