R.O.P. Roar of the Pelican mini-FAQ/master thread

[dano]

Hola peeps, dano here. I figure that there's a lot of questions about this semi-mod. So, to assist, here's a sticky for the ROP, with a caveat--->

Please keep it simple and to-the-point so the newer members can follow along.

Here's a basic page/info: http://lights.lightrefineries.org/?page_id=9 to get it started...

-dan

[mattyg]

Here's a thread that has an excellent run down on where to find all the parts for a ROP build.

This thread has some "brick & mortar" sources for parts.

[jnj1033]

What if I wanted to do this mod with a 4D Maglite, but using four sets of three AA batteries instead of the sub-C stick? Is there a bulb that will fit the PR socket and handle that kind of current?

[Icebreak]

Are there any alternative recipes for the ROP?

Yes, the ROP bulb being 6V invites many combinations.

Here's one: My ROP 1400. About $70.00 in parts and host.

Recipe:

The host is a Mag 3C

Deanodize the tailcap with lye drain cleaner, wirebrush dremmel bit to clean it up good then a squirt of contact cleaner and a quick wipe to condition the surface.

Reshape the spring with a pair of vise grip needle nose pliers and another pair of needle nose pliers so that the bottom spirals are small enough to allow the spring to drop all the way into tailcap. Bend the end of the top spiral so that it intersects its diameter. This is to insure contact with the cathod (-) end of the last battery.

6 Intellect IB1400 2/3 A from CheapBatteryPacks.

Sleeve them in 5/8" ID X 7/8" ODacrylic tube from Home Depot. Split the tube. Just load it up after charging individually. Charging as a pack will require a clamp.

Pelican PE3854 Hi "Big D" 6V SLA bulb (Roar of the Pelican) from brightguy or Lumenhound. Install it.

UCL or borofloat lens. Replace the original lens.

PerfectMagReflector LOP or lightly stippled reflector. Replace the original reflector.

A Mag 3C is 1 7/8" longer than a 2C but 3Cs are a very nice form factor.

4.30A and 8.09V at start.
4.28A and 7.93V at 10 seconds.
4.15A and 7.85V at 30 seconds.
4.12A and 7.73V at 1 minute and settled down.

That's 1.28V per cell, 31.8476W and 20.38 minutes calculated runtime.

Some good things about a ROP 1400:

1) NiMh chargers. You might already own one. If your location is other than home and your light needs a charge; it's more likely to find a NiMh charger than a Li-Ion charger
2) Easy build.
3) Safe operation. Safe charging. No fear of fiery outgassing.
4) Flexibility. You can run all the 2C 3X123 and 6cell HotWire solution lamps in it, CA1499, CA1057, WA1111, Pelican Big D 6V SLA, Krypton 5C, etc., etc.
5) Expected small initial sag but after that a nice, non-sagging run. IOWs, a fairly flat output.
6) No battery holder. A length of acrylic tube. So, ZIP added resistance from power source.
7) Very nice white temperature color of beam.

***EDIT***

Someone asked about lumens. Here's a calculation. Not a proven fact:

(7.73V / 6.0V) = 1.28
1.28 ^ 3.3 = 2.25
2.25 x 600 = 1350 bulb lumens
A massive 42.39 lu/W
1350 x .65 = 877 torch lumens

That's if Pelican is factual about 600 lumens. Looks right to me.
That's if the power of 3.3 is correct for rerating. Sounds right to me.
That's if 35% loss is incurred with the reflector and the window. Never have totally agreed with that but apparently an Integrated Sphere was used by CPFers to prove it.

The Big D low is claimed to start out at 290 lumens.
652 bulb lumens rerated
424 out the front

***End Edit***



I'm getting just over 20 minutes before I notice dimming which is about what a SureFire M6 is rated at but there have been many reports of thermal shutdowns at 10 minutes for them. The ROP 1400 does not experience thermal shutdown. The ROP 1400 also puts out more lumens than does the SFM6.

***Edit***

Additional charging information:

A while back I got 3 Vanson Speedy Chargers. They are 4 bay, 4 channel chargers that have adjustable contacts for AAA to D cells. A pack charger would be simpler but these charge the cells individually. This way I can somewhat monitor the health of the cells as well as know they are optimized. For odd cells like these IB 1400s I use spacers.

#10-32 x 1-1/4" machine bolts stuffed into little vinyl tube sections. The vinyl tube is 1/2" OD x 3/8" ID. I top them off with rare earth magnets which are probably not necessary. Really any spacer an inch or so long should work.

Here is a quick and good discussion where Silver Fox and BullseyeBill explain the operation and solve a problem I was having with CB1650s.

Vanson Speedy Charger discussion.

*EDIT*

Charge the batteries before use. Don't rely on the charge they came with. I believe this is true for all NiMh cells.

Here is a scan of a charging spacer apart and together, the re-bent spring, the deanodized tail cap and the vinyl tube with cells in it.



EDIT TO ADD 5C ROP ELITE 4500

I remember that some folks have built successful ROPs using 6 SC RC cells. I recall that josey did it using a Mag 6C long ago. I think it was Whitehot that did it in a Mag 5C by moving the switch forward.

The Elite 4500 SCs are fairly new. I don't know if they are better than the IB4200 SCs. What's nice about the Elite 4500s is their diameter. It's 22.86mm.

I recently bought a Mag5C and some Elite 4500s thinking my measurement prediction might work out just right. It didn't. Even the 22.86mm diameter cells wouldn't recess into a de-anodized tale cap.

Dang.

So I commenced to figure out how to bore out the 5C's tailcap with a hand held drill. I went to Sears and got the closest grinding bit I could find. It was too big so I cut it down by running it against a big rat bastard file. It probably wasn't a rat bastard file but I like to say rat bastard.

Quickly I realized that the bit would fill up with Al so I needed to provide lubricant whilst grinding. Some Duralube squirt lube worked and let the grinding bit do its job.

Finally an Elite 4500 would fit into the bored out tailcap.

This ROP 4500 should run about an hour. I've run it through one cycle and am using it in a second cycle.

The 5C format works well for handling and it fits nicely on top of my Maxpedition Operator.

I've used it while navigating through a parking lot at night and it owned the parking lot. I used it last weekend while hiking around on an island in the middle of a river and it lasted well. I like this Hotwire enough that I'll probably buy another Mag 5C before they become unattainable.

[Alin10123]

Are there any alternative recipes for the ROP?

Yes, the ROP bulb being 6V invites many combinations.

Here's one: My ROP 1400. About $70.00 in parts and host.

Recipe:

The host is a Mag 3C

Deanodize the tailcap with lye drain cleaner, wirebrush dremmel bit to clean it up good then a squirt of contact cleaner and a quick wipe to condition the surface.

Reshape the spring with a pair of vise grip needle nose pliers and another pair of needle nose pliers so that the bottom spirals are small enough to allow the spring to drop all the way into tailcap.

6 Intellect IB1400 2/3 A from CheapBatteryPacks.

Sleeve them in 3/8" ID X 1/2" OD acrylic tube from Home Depot. Split the tube. Just load it up after charging individually. Charging as a pack will require a clamp.

Pelican PE3854 Hi "Big D" 6V SLA bulb (Roar of the Pelican) from brightguy or Lumenhound. Install it.

UCL or borofloat lens. Replace the original lens.

PerfectMagReflector LOP or lightly stippled reflector. Replace the original reflector.

A Mag 3C is 1 7/8" longer than a 2C but 3Cs are a very nice form factor.

4.30A and 8.09V at start.
4.28A and 7.93V at 10 seconds.
4.15A and 7.85V at 30 seconds.
4.12A and 7.73V at 1 minute and settled down.

That's 1.28V per cell, 31.8476W and 20.38 minutes calculated runtime.

Some good things about a ROP 1400:

1) NiMh chargers. You might already own one. If your location is other than home and your light needs a charge; it's more likely to find a NiMh charger than a Li-Ion charger
2) Easy build.
3) Safe operation. Safe charging. No fear of fiery outgassing.
4) Flexibility. You can run all the 2C 3X123 and 6cell HotWire solution lamps in it, CA1499, CA1057, WA1111, Pelican Big D 6V SLA, Krypton 5C, etc., etc.
5) Expected small initial sag but after that a nice, non-sagging run. IOWs, a fairly flat output.
6) No battery holder. A length of acrylic tube. So, ZIP added resistance from power source.
7) Very nice white temperature color of beam.

I'm getting just over 20 minutes before I notice dimming which is about what a SureFire M6 is rated at but there have been many reports of thermal shutdowns at 10 minutes for them. The ROP 1400 does not experience thermal shutdown. The ROP 1400 also puts out more lumens than does the SFM6.

that sounds quite interesting. Never heard that variation tried before with those cells.

[carbine15]

Mags are great and all but they suffer from a few problems that some older flashlights dont. Take my old 1940's erra 2-d cell light. It's got a glass lens, all metal body, leather o rings, and doesnt need to be bored out to accept a 8AA to 2D adapter like maglights. Sure the glass lens is ancient and opaque. Sure there's no way make it water resistant. Sure it takes old screw in bulbs. There's got to be a stock light out there begging for a sleeper mod.

I'd like to know what you think would make the best ROP mod host using a sleeper light like my vintage flashlight.

pr bulb
all metal construction
glass lens
low resistance switch.
fat body.

[KevinL]

Wow, cool. I never imagined one day I would have my own sticky. Thanks Dano

(just for the record, no, I did not ask.. in fact I have been out of the loop and away from CPF for quite a while, when this took place)


*reserved for future info as I get it*


25/11/2007 edit:
------------------
We are conducting a sign-in. If you have successfully managed to build or buy one or more of these ROPs, you are welcome to 'join the club'!

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...21#post2238921

[Alin10123]

Mags are great and all but they suffer from a few problems that some older flashlights dont. Take my old 1940's erra 2-d cell light. It's got a glass lens, all metal body, leather o rings, and doesnt need to be bored out to accept a 8AA to 2D adapter like maglights. Sure the glass lens is ancient and opaque. Sure there's no way make it water resistant. Sure it takes old screw in bulbs. There's got to be a stock light out there begging for a sleeper mod.

I'd like to know what you think would make the best ROP mod host using a sleeper light like my vintage flashlight.

pr bulb
all metal construction
glass lens
low resistance switch.
fat body.

Good observation. However, the ROP mod uses 6AA-2D adapters which dont have to be bored out anyways. haha
So basically, other than that, the ROP is just new lense, new reflector, and presto. It's really quite a simple mod. Almost too easy.

[Nubo]

The Reflectalite GH44 is a screw-in bulb, 10w, 6V halogen. Gives pretty good light on 6AA. The GH44F is frosted to give you a nice beam if you've got a smooth reflector. If your old light has a metal reflector all you'd need is the bulb and battery adapter. Not in the ROP league, but might be a nice way to breathe life into the old light.

[drizzle]

How about an old Boy Scout Flashlight? I don't know if it would fit the criteria but it would be funny to pull it out and blow everyone away.

[carbine15]

wow, where do I get this gh44? To bad I don't live in England.

[Nubo]

wow, where do I get this gh44? To bad I don't live in England.

Easy to order from reflectalite.com. They're in UK, but will ship for a reasonable charge and very prompt.

[michael word]

I was wondering if anyone knows the actual lumens put out by the ROP with the high and low bulb.

[missionaryman]

Hi all,

I recently discovered this about my ROP and thought I better share it with everyone else.
The best thing about the ROP is it's simplicity and low cost - this is also it's greatest vice.

My set up is a 2C maglite with 2 x LG 18650 2400mAh unprotected lithium ion cells and I use it as a bike light, in winter it does 5 x 30 minute runs a week so it gets plenty hot, and I would say that you'll only get this problem in long duration runs like I do.

In the stock switch the top spring cup which forms the positive contact directly to the bulb is held by a collar made from cheap plastic - it is NOT heat resistant and it is also responsible for isolating positive from negative at the business end.

Here's what happened to mine after a few weeks - in-fact it may have hapened in the first day and I didn't notice until now:



It only needs to melt and warp a little more before the two poles short and the power of two 2400mah unprotected lithium ion cells collides !!!

I am currently working with a friend to develop a heat resistant cup that will reliably isolate the (+) for the (-) (well all I'm really doing is asking him to make one) - if anyone knows of a heat resistant plastic that can turn well on a lathe and take a very thin walled profile please advise.

In the meantime try some teflon tape or paper around the metal cup, perhaps even a good coat of engine paint would be a good fix.

PS: also watch out for the situation some people (including myself) have had where the solder blob at the base of the bulb melts and drops off inside the switch as this too can create a short.

[DUQ]

Thanks for the warning. Im building an ROP now so this is something I do need to look into. Im thinking that a piece of thin mica should fit in there. You could use PTFE (Polytetrafluoroethylene) rod. Easily machined and rated to 260C.

[PhotonAddict]

Thanks for the warning. I recently built a ROP running off NiMH AAs. I don't run it for extended periods but it's still something I will keep an eye on. Which bulb do you use, the high or the low output?

[Knight Lights]

Very interesting, I haven't heard of failures with the WA lamps in similar situations, so it seems a little strange that the ROP lamps can cause this much problem.

Bill

[WhiteHot]

Very interesting, I haven't heard of failures with the WA lamps in similar situations, so it seems a little strange that the ROP lamps can cause this much problem.

Bill

I think we are pushing the BigD SLA around 30 Watts. Most of the WA bulbs in this range are being used in the ceramic sockets nowdays.

[bwaites]

There are literally HUNDREDS of potted WA1185's, 1111's, and 1274's out there running in MagMods. (Heck, I've sold somewhere around 40-50 myself). I have an 1185 in a 6D with 1/2D 4000 Mah cells driving it. It runs for close to an hour, and I haven't had problems.

Maybe Mag changed the plastic?

Bill

[Templar223]

I have an 1185 in a 6D with 1/2D 4000 Mah cells driving it. It runs for close to an hour, and I haven't had problems.

Maybe Mag changed the plastic?

Bill

Running an 1185 for an hour constant with a potted bulb?

I had things start to go bad in six minutes with an ROP/LO and the bottom melted on the bulb in about a half-hour or so. (See the thread on ROP/Lo Torture Test).

I also was "cooking" an 1185 bulb in a Mag85 one day and I forgot about it for about 20 minutes and the plastic mounting assembly appeared to be very "soft" and seemed to be slightly deformed - and that was with the head off allowing a lot of the heat to escape.

I couldn't imagine running any modded light with a stock lamp assembly for an hour constant and not suffer bad things without further modifications to that assembly.

John

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

I've been trying to do a poor mans Rop Lo. I have been reading that a M*g-num Star 6 or even 5 cell Xenon is good.

The Rop Hi draws better than 4 amps. With a LOP reflector it rocks!

Now I have a 5 cell Xenon in my 2C with 2x18650. It draws almost an amp ( .98) and the LOP reflector doesn't really tame it. Even the deep 2" off my M*g85 doesn't really help it.

It just adds more fuel to my belief than when you have enough power, reflectors mean a trifle less.

Additionally, I have 2 lights with 6AA driving a 4 cell Krypton (frosted) and one with 8AA driving a 6 cell (again frosted) and they have FAR more usefull beams than anything I've tried in this 2C short of the Rop Hi.

Gotta get a Rop Lo bulb somehow. But can't order online...

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

OT by a bit....

But a ROP LO alternative all the same.

It's a bit more involved, requireing a bi-pin mod (either MC or something from FM).

But run a stock M*gcharger bulb on 6 consumer AAs, and it pullls right about 2A.

I run mine with an unfrosted bulb in an M2 MOP reflector. In a 2D with either Modamag or FM 6AA-2D battery holder, and a M*gcharger glass lense.

It is awfully nice of beam!

I suspect a ROP LO would do about the same amp draw....

[webley445]

I'm getting it together to build a 2D ROP but have a few questions and would like everyone's opinions.
I currently have a 3D Mag85. So this is a bit of a step down, but I want a easier to carry, smaller light with big output for work.

Should I go with the 6 cell or 7 cell setup to power the ROP? Is there really that much difference between one cell?

Will Titanium brand 1800 or 2000 mah cells fit 4 across in an unbored body?
Been looking for some of the batteries from Modamag's compatability charts but no luck finding them so far.
Hoping to use my two 4AAx1D holders if I go the 7 cell route.
Or should I stick with 6 and maybe consider CPB 1650 (read someone reccomending them in another thread).
Can I charge the 1650's in the standard nihm chargers I currently use?

When it comes to mods I'm more of a "drop in" kind of guy. Not interested in going lithium. Just want to keep it simple , thanks.

[Delvance]

One cell will make a difference if you're 6 cell setup is using cheapie batteries. I say go for 6 cbp1650s for simplicity sake...otherwise you'll have to hunt down the right brand and capacity battery to fit four across. I seem to remember Rayovac 1800s fit four across and Energizer/Sanyo 2500s fit if you face the thick part of the battery label inside for all four batteries.

CBP1650s can be charged in most normal nimh chargers. They don't have any nipples on them, the trick is to use a small magnet or al-foil...or a bit of twisted wire. I use the last option, and have left the housing on half of the piece of wire...the other half is bare wire to connect the battery to the charger's contacts.

[Warhoggie]

Just remember, everything is a compromise. You'll get a bit more light going 7 cells, but you will also shorten the life of the ROP.

Cheers.

[simonsays]

I would suggest going with the 6 cbp 1650's. I manage to charge mine in a 'standard' NiMh charger by rolling up a small ball of aluminum foil as a temporary +ve nipple. I've yet to instaflash a bulb despite always using the batteries hot off the charger. I believe this only becomes an issue if you are using 7 cells.

simon

[Alin10123]

Yea, the ROP bulb will run fine hot off the charger with 6 cells. IMO this is already plenty bright. I can't even use this light indoors since the reflections off of the painted walls always blind me when i walk into an empty room.

8 cells will most likely require you to bore a light out. I believe there are periodically bored out 2D mags for sale in the GB section.

I would just do 6 cells. You can try the sanyo 2600 cells for extra capacity too. They dont sag under voltage like some of the other cells.

[flash]

How long should I wait after pluging 7 freshly charged batteries into the light? I want to use 7 Rayovac IC3's (they don't charge completely when the light goes off right?), but then I don't want to instaflash any bulbs.

[flash]

Has anyone tried to run a ROP (high or low) with 7 consumer grade AA batteries hot off the charger? Would this instaflash the bulb?

Would it help if the switch was not fixed to lower resistance?

[carbine15]

Is it wierd that I'm running 8 hot off the charger sanyo 2300's in my ROP low and it's dim as hell? Switch resistance is very high in military angleheads.