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Thread: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

  1. #211
    *Flashaholic* Icebreak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    Yes.

  2. #212
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    Originally posted by darell:
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Icebreak:
    Back on topic. darell is brilliant.
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See that? That's the kind of comments we need on these forums. That wasn't so hard was it?

    I've I paid you yet this month, Ice?

    [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
    </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">darell-

    Just the anticipation of knowing I will soon be able to read about another of your elegantly logical thoughts that exemplify an unfathomable imagination and stunningly precise mental process is payment enough.

  3. #213
    Flashaholic* MY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    Dat2Zip

    I also did not get a email for my two orders yesterday.

    If possible, please send both pieces in one shipment. I have things shipped right across the border and the reciever charges by the piece held for me. If this is too much of a hassle, don't worry about it since we are only taking a few bucks.

    Thanks.

  4. #214

    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    MY,

    You have two valid paypal orders that I see.

    Order #12341 Oct28, #12590 Oct29.

    Maybe your email confirmation will arrive shortly.

    I will try my best to box all multiple orders into one package.

  5. #215

    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    Wayne,

    I just paypalled for all three kits. The receipt only appears to list two of them but it has accepted my $109.00 Is there any way to check this out? (I already emailed the return address)

    Thanks,
    Brightnorm

    PS: Will lithiums give me better performance in any/all of these modules? Sorry if this has already been answered

  6. #216
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    Ohhhhhhh Yeah that felt good!
    1 BB500 heading my way with tailcap [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
    Any word of if/when limited selections of other colors led may be available?

  7. #217

    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    brightnorm,

    The ordering systems lumps the order ID, and all the orders onto one line and sends that over to paypal. Paypal is then truncating the line so you only see the first 200?? characters. Hope this helps. Your order appears to be fine.

    lithiums in the MM work fine and will run maintain a brighter light than with Alkalines. Badboys are a toss up. I think NiMH are better. Your mileage might vary.

    Doug,

    I've adjusted a few just last night. The plastic trim pots are easy to turn with something sharp like the edge of knife or screwdriver. You can "flick" the trim pot around. As for the ceramic/metal ones are a little more difficult but still should be able to turn them without having to drill a hole in the emitter board.

    OrBy,

    Colors??? I think I'll be offering colors with the Wizard drop in module when they become available. The Red, Amber, red orange all have lower Vf voltages and require a step up/Step Down converter which the Wizard can do.

    I might offer colors on as specials if I can free up some time in the near future.

    Hopefully, once modules start shipping I can focus on designs and other things. That should be another week or so.

    Wayne

  8. #218
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    dat2zip Wayne, I just ordered one MM adj + Kroll tailcap switch + 2 ring clips via PayPal.

    Are they going to adjust the trim pot to wide open? I hope so. Otherwise how do I adjust it? Do I have to drill a hole somewhere = UGH + Yikes!
    <font color=blue>--ug </font>

  9. #219
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    Just think: A Wizard, a 1W LS @ 400mA, and a 3LR12 4.5 V 6600mAh battery. Assume efficiency of 70%. Almost 16 hours light! (if my calculations are correct)
    and with Xmas coming and an empty stocking...

  10. #220

    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    For how long will these be available? Any ideas?

    do I have this right?
    BB400 constant current 400mA
    BB500 constant current 500mA
    MM ??? with an "dimmer" trimpot?

    Oh which one do I want? Thanks.

  11. #221

    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    Bushman,

    I have promised CPF members to make these available as long as there is sufficient demand. This may be one run, two runs etc...

    At this point I will try to maintain it till after xmas.

    You have the first two right.

    MM trim pot adjust the output voltage which in turn controls the brightness. In the case of a single Luxeon, it's to adjust the brightness. For driving 1-N Nichias in parallel, it allows you to precisely set the voltage/current for a non Luxeon based application. (That is if you just buy the converter board separately.)

    MM also is great for driving a single 5mm or 3mm white LED with a single AAA battery or a single AA battery. For these applications the Madmax has very high efficiency.

    Wayne

    PS Since I've got the thing all setup now I've been asked to carry some hard to find items to make a one stop shopping store for CPF members. Items that have been mentioned are small split rings, mineral glass replacement for minimag, saphire glass (22.5mm) for minimag replacement and some other small items. Two 1/5A NiCD batteries are the same length as a 123 battery.

    I'll be adding these in the near future... Stay tuned.

  12. #222

    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    Wayne, you are truly a gentleman! Thanks for all you do for us. I have yet to have a stepup converter other than the Lambda Illuminator circut. I am looking forward to being able to purchase one of the BB500 modules in the future as well as a MM for the adjustable cabability. Probably will be after I get some x-mas money in. I have lurked and read but have not bought. I have two minimags, one that has no guts in it at all, just a bezel and barrel. and an older but complete red minimag and they are patiently waiting...

  13. #223
    Flashaholic across the pond's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    Anyone based in the UK want to participate in a group buy to spread shipping costs?

    What shade of blue is sapphire glass?

  14. #224
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    Originally posted by NamTinker:
    Just think: A Wizard, a 1W LS @ 400mA, and a 3LR12 4.5 V 6600mAh battery. Assume efficiency of 70%. Almost 16 hours light! (if my calculations are correct)
    and with Xmas coming and an empty stocking...
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not correct. That 6600 figure is for very low current levels. At the current of your application, you may get 2500 to 3500 depending on temperature.

  15. #225

    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    What's inside the battery? A 3LR12 looks like a standard Alkaline type battery. That would mean a 3 cell stackup. If the indivudual batteries circular area is wider than a AA cell, you can expect to get good low internal resistance from the battery pack. I took a quick peek search on the web and found one where it rated it for 4400mA/HR. Still at 4400mA/HR rating with my calculations yields a good 11+ hours. Still pretty awesome.

    Wayne

  16. #226
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    Originally posted by dat2zip:
    What's inside the battery? A 3LR12 looks like a standard Alkaline type battery. That would mean a 3 cell stackup. If the indivudual batteries circular area is wider than a AA cell, you can expect to get good low internal resistance from the battery pack. I took a quick peek search on the web and found one where it rated it for 4400mA/HR. Still at 4400mA/HR rating with my calculations yields a good 11+ hours. Still pretty awesome.

    Wayne
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As I recall, they contain 3 cells of 4/3A size. If you search a bit harder, I think you will find that your 4400 mAhr rating is at a very low current draw relative to what your module would be drawing for 400 mA output. For most of the discharge the battery voltage will be in the 2.4 to 3.6 volt range.
    EDIT: A closer look shows that the cells are the same length as a 4/3A but just a bit fatter.

  17. #227

    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    The one reference I found was for a 20 ohm load. That's not too far off. If they are A size and they are standard Alkaline, they should have good low internal resistance. I'm only guessing. But, from what I can tell, the wider the diameter the bettter the battery chemistry is for high current demands. This is based on my looking at AA, C, and D specifications. Remember, that at higher input voltages the current demand is not that huge. We are talking less than the output current of 400mA. I don't consider this too taxing of a load even for AA batteries.

    Wayne

  18. #228
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    Originally posted by dat2zip:
    The one reference I found was for a 20 ohm load. That's not too far off. Wayne
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">????!
    Let's see. 400mA at 3.4V = 1.36W. If 70% efficient, input power = 1.36/.70 = 1.94W. If battery voltage is 3.6V input current = 1.94/3.6 = 0.54A. A 20 ohm load draws 3.6/20 = 0.18A. At 2.4V, input current = 1.94/2.4 = 0.81A. A 20 ohm load draws 2.4/20 = 0.12A. These are huge differences when estimating AHr capability of alkaline cells.

    Originally posted by dat2zip:
    But, from what I can tell, the wider the diameter the bettter the battery chemistry is for high current demands. This is based on my looking at AA, C, and D specifications. Wayne
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Looking at the Eveready datasheets for the AA, C, and D cells [E91, E93, and E95], the internal resistance of the AA and D cells are about the same, and that of C cells is higher than the other two. Based on this, I would doubt that the cells in the 3LR12 are any lower than an AA.

  19. #229

    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    Doug,

    Going exactly by your exact science, I guess Surefire should shut down their plant and stop making flashlights. What point are you disputing. Rocket science?? No one here is a scientist and applied applications rarely get anything close to the published specs.

    123 Lithiums are definitely rated for low current duty applications, yet, surefire drives the living piss out of them.

    I think Namtinker was just speaking out daydreaming that if it did such a thing he would be in seventh heaven. Heaven forbid that he did such and experiment and proved that to be real.

    I'm not trying to dispute, refute what anyone is saying and when I refer to nearly the same for 400mA to 150ma is totally still applicable compared to the 2A that I've gottem from 2AA packs. Geez, if I can draw 2A from AA, then surely you can get 500mA from a 4/3A battery.

  20. #230
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    Originally posted by dat2zip:
    Doug,

    Going exactly by your exact science, I guess Surefire should shut down their plant and stop making flashlights. What point are you disputing. Rocket science?? No one here is a scientist and applied applications rarely get anything close to the published specs.

    123 Lithiums are definitely rated for low current duty applications, yet, surefire drives the living piss out of them.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not that familiar with the Surefire products so I cannot comment on their design practices. With regard to heavy current draw from 123 lithiums, I will say that the "CR" type retain capacity very well at heavy loads compared to alkaline cells of similar volume. Not so the "BR" type.
    Originally posted by dat2zip:


    I think Namtinker was just speaking out daydreaming that if it did such a thing he would be in seventh heaven. Heaven forbid that he did such and experiment and proved that to be real.
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My intention is to provide a realistic expectation of performance for the scenario he was discussing. As I recall from Namtinker's other posts, he is more than daydreaming. He has a specfic application for lights [adventure racing where he may be using it all night and weight is an issue] where duration and efficiency are important considerations. I certainly have nothing against real world experimentation.
    Originally posted by dat2zip:
    I'm not trying to dispute, refute what anyone is saying and when I refer to nearly the same for 400mA to 150ma is totally still applicable compared to the 2A that I've gottem from 2AA packs. Geez, if I can draw 2A from AA, then surely you can get 500mA from a 4/3A battery.
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry if I caused offense. That was certainly not my intention. Like many here, you appear to under-appreciate the degree to which heavy current draw reduces the total extractable energy from some cell chemistries [e.g., alkalines]. I can get 10A [briefly] out of an AA by shorting the terminals but extracted energy fails to zero. The point that I would hope that readers get from this discussion [and I think it is a very important one] is that high current levels will greatly reduce Ahr extractable and even further reduce Whr extractable, the later being relevant to nominally constant power loads such as being discussed here.
    For those interested in these issues, a very worthwhile exercise is to study the constant current discharge curves for a common AA cell. I say constant current because few manufacturers have constant power data on the web. What you will discover is that when you multiply the various runtimes by the various currents, the AHr capacity is greatly lower at higher currents. Here is a link to the Eveready site:
    http://data.energizer.com/
    Surf around to get to the E91 datasheet [this is the alkaline AA] and checkout the discharge curves.

  21. #231
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    Wayne, I prolly will be interested in the Mineral Glass or Saphire Glass goodies. I'll be watching.
    <font color=blue>--ug </font>

  22. #232
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    Wayne is correct - I was dreaming a bit but to compare actual figures for the 3LR12: (These are actual obtained run times for a Petzl with two different bulbs.)
    Bulb 1: 3.8V 0.22A Run time 15h
    Bulb 2: 4V 0.5A Run time 6h
    Currently I am using the Duracell 4400mAh battery and get close to 9 hours from a LS (voltage regulated) driven at around 260mA.
    If we can get 10-12 hours from one battery at rated LS current, it would be great. The installed Azoteq PWM switch also helps in conserving abit of energy.

  23. #233
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    It is possible to draw 10+ amps from a 123 for at least a few seconds. Then the cell overheats and might outgas or explode.
    Batteries are designed for specific purposes, but as Wayne pointed out with his Surefire example, people can use them for other purposes which push their capabilities. Total power output may suffer, but this is acceptable for some of us in some applications.
    The flashlight that burns twice as bright lives 1/4 as long.

    Back on topic........
    Wayne---It's been a couple of days. Any news on the BB/MM production run? Inquiring minds......
    ---Marc

  24. #234
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    Actually, now that I think about it, the flashlight that burns twice as bright must be using 10 times as much power because the human eye is a logarithmic machine.

  25. #235

    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    Official dates:

    Badboy 500 modules and Badboy 500 converter boards should be shipping this Friday or next Monday Nov 11th.

    Madmax and Badboy 400 surface mount assembly is scheduled for next thursday to Friday. Madmax and Badboy 400 Module assembly will proceed a couple of days after that.

    Looks like I will be able to start shipping Badboy 500 orders next week and start shipping Madmax and Badboy 400 or mixed orders the week before Thanksgiving.

    Wayne

  26. #236

    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    O, I forgot to add.

    I have the official wire retainer now. This obsoletes the C-Ring clip. It's thinner width is better suited for this. It's not perfect and can give intermittent operation. All modules will be shipped with them. It will be up the you whether you use it or not.

    Here's what problems I've seen. Screwing the head down can push the module and retainer down far enough where the battery cannot rise back up under spring pressure and make contact or engage the module to light.

    The thickness of the retaining clip is just a tad less than the raised anode tip.

    This is only an issue with turning the light on. Once you tap it so the retaining move back up.

    If the retaining ring is pushed down farther than the retaining ring thickness the battery will fail to re-engage with the module.

    Tapping the head against the palm will drive the batteries toward the head and move the retaining ring and re-engage the batteries.

    This may be acceptable to some and not to others.

    The retainer keeps the module from falling out when you replace the batteries, but, may be annoying if the head is driven all the way down.

    This is not a problem with the Kroll tailcap switch. Just set the head in the on position and use the tailcap switch to turn it on/off.

    For those that have ordered the C-Clip, I will also send the C-Clips as well.

    I believe the C-Clip is thicker than the new retainer ring.

    Wayne

  27. #237

    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    Here we go- I can get a Bare BB400 and a 5W Royal-Blue, and stuff it into my blue AA minimag. (next stop, eBay to sell every non-flashlight item I own, just so I can buy more lights...)

  28. #238
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    Hi Dat2zip,

    Do you know the bin coding of the Luxeons the Madmax and Badboys are using? Lambda managed to get some coded Q2H last month.

    Q = 30.6 - 39.8 Lumens
    2 = 5000 - 5500 K color temp
    H = 3.03 - 3.27 Vfd


    -Ron

  29. #239
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    Dat2zip, I ordered 2 C-clips, but if the new retaining ring is thinner and better, cant you send that instead?

    Maybe I should amend my order. All I need are a total of two retainer rings - one for my Badboy and the other for my ordered MM-adj. But if the MM-adj will include a retainer ring - then I dont need to order two of them as extras. But its only 50, might as well send them then. Ya cant even buy a candy bar for that anymore.
    <font color=blue>--ug </font>

  30. #240

    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know: BADBOY, MADMAX Update

    wayne. would'nt replacing the spring in the tail cap of mag with a higher tensile strength spring also work to keep the module seated, or would it place to much pressure on the mod?

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