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Thread: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

  1. #1
    Flashaholic* orb's Avatar
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    Ohgeez Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.
    Due to a mix up with material (Titanium & Stainless Steel) @ the CNC shop. It has just been proven that some of the 40 Raw Ti's that have all been sold are not all Titanium. They were sold as Titanium & have the Raw Ti Logo. It is hard to see any difference between the two.
    This is a massive shock to me & still find it very hard to believe how I missed this when assembling them.

    The only reason this got investigated was down to Codeman & his quite obvious (now) confusion about why his Raw Ti was the same weight as his Raw Ns
    You can test to see if your Raw Ti is in fact Stainless with the magnets supplied as spacers. Please take out the battery & spring.
    If the Magnets slightly cling to the lower body (With out the Battery & spring in) then its not good news. Your Raw Ti as it says on the Logo is made from a Special Aero space Stainless S31 which I am told is only purchased for a particular Job.
    Of course if the magnets show no cling then its good news & your Raw Ti is made from Titanium. Your Case Closed.
    The other now obvious give away is if you have a Raw Ns & Raw Ti/SS & they are the same weight!! It should be that the Raw Ti is about half the Weight, Not equal.

    What I have done with Codeman is to send him the Last Raw Actual Ti I have coming back from the Photographer. He decided he wanted to keep his Raw SS & Paid me a further £100.
    What Next?? Well I plan to do another Run of The Raw Ti. Once I have these (& this mistake will not happen again) I can replace the Raw SS's for Real Raw Ti's.
    The Raw SS Still cost £100 to make Complete & to me are worth at least that. It is a special grade of SS S31 & I guess should be considered very unique!
    Full Refunds to those with SS's would just about break me
    So my favorite solution is to Replace with a Real Raw Ti when they are made & if you wish to keep your Raw SS & pay £100 when the 2nd batch of Raw Ti's are ready to go. As Codeman did. Then Great.
    Other than that if you return the Raw SS when the Ti's are done I can offer them for Sale here on CPF.

    Please post your findings here Ti or SS I would like to see a reply from every body please.
    It will be impossible for there to be more than 20 of the SS Raws out there.
    I will make right what has gone wrong here & please except my sincere apologies for this genuine Cock Up

    Rob
    --
    Findings So Far:
    Raw Ti

    1 Isak Hawk
    2 Cliffnopus
    3 Wave Particle
    4 Blahblahblah
    5 JohnnyDeep
    6 FrenchyLed
    7 SATrista
    8 Regentag
    9 Regentag

    Raw SS: * Indicates Keeping & Purchasing a Real Raw Ti (2nd Batch) For Cost £100.
    1 Ouchmyfinger
    2 Codeman* Paid
    3 Dmdrewitt*
    4 Blahblahblah*
    5 Kenster Front Half SS Rear Ti
    6 PhotonFanatic Front Half SS Rear Ti
    7 Dogliness*
    8 Davesa*
    9 GJW* K2
    10 Cmacclel Front Ti Rear SS
    11 Aosty Front Ti Rear SS
    Last edited by orb; 08-15-2006 at 08:06 AM.
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  2. #2
    *Flashaholic* this_is_nascar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    That's pretty classy Rob. Most people would probably not have even noticed, but yet you do the right thing and post here. Awesome job and a class act for sure.
    ... it's not what you take when you leave this world behind you, It's what you leave behind you when you go.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    Way to go, Rob! I'd be happy to buy one of the ss returns from you.

    Marc

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    Rob,

    Good news from New England--my Ti is Ti.

    Sorry to hear about the mix-up, but I've mistaken SS for Ti before myself. Only the weight gives it away (or the magnetism).
    PhotonFanatic—fanatic@photonfanatic.com
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    Mine seems to be SS. Now I know why it has more mass than my exolion and cr2 ion, both of which are bigger.

    The tail (with o-ring and 1 trit but without spring and battery) weighs 16.5 grams, and the magnets stick with spring/battery removed.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    Neither Rob nor myself could believe this at first, but his suggestion to try a magnet sealed it. I did have to use just one of the supplied magnets, because the S31 has only a very slightly magnetic attraction. When I tried two of the small magnets, their weight was enough to overcome the magnetism and they just slid off. Just be sure to use either one of the small recharging magnets, or one of similar size.

    The S31 is also slightly less gray in color than Ti-6Al-4V. It would be hard to see the difference, though, unless you have them sitting side by side.

    I cannot compliment Rob enough on how he's handled this. I couldn't believe it, nor could he. But there was my overweight Raw Ti saying otherwise. Neither of us would have been happy until we got it figured out.

    Like I said earlier, Rob, I hate that this has happened, but I truly admire how you've handled both the investigation into the problem, and coming up with different solutions that offer everyone a fair deal that's acceptable to them. You're definitely one of the good guys!
    Last edited by Codeman; 07-19-2006 at 12:33 PM.
    Ray
    Good people need to be there for each other. It's the only way to stay sane in a sometimes insane world.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    A manufacturer that admits there wrong and then does the right thing.
    How refreshing.
    Thanks Rob.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    For everyone's reference (+/- 1 gm):

    Internal components (board, sink, LED, & reflector) = 7-8 gms

    Raw NS with no battery = 36 gms
    Raw NS shells (top and bottom with internal components removed) = 28 gms

    Raw SS with no battery = 35 gms
    Raw SS shells = 28 gms

    Raw Ti with no battery = 23 gms
    Raw Ti shells = 15 gms

    These might be off by 1 gm or so, depending on the accuracy of your scales. Also, the old and new Joker reflectors may not weigh same, but I doubt if it would be measureable on a scale with 1 gm accuracy.
    Last edited by Codeman; 07-19-2006 at 06:10 PM.
    Ray
    Good people need to be there for each other. It's the only way to stay sane in a sometimes insane world.

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* WAVE_PARTICLE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    Man....this is totally unacceptable. I can't believe a manufacturer can let something like this happen. I mean, seriously..... you had a RAW SS in the works and you are only telling us NOW?!??!?

    Paypal locked and loaded.


    WP
    Last edited by WAVE_PARTICLE; 07-19-2006 at 05:23 PM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    yup, I got one of the lottery winners!
    Raw SS (Raw S31?) without battery clocks in at 34.9g on my scale.

    Hey Rob, can you tell us anything else about the steel?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    A+ for Rob!

  12. #12

    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by ouchmyfinger
    yup, I got one of the lottery winners!
    Raw SS (Raw S31?) without battery clocks in at 34.9g on my scale.

    Hey Rob, can you tell us anything else about the steel?
    I've been looking for info on it as well, but I haven't had much luck. I've seen references to it being used in valves and several references to it being very corrision resistant (marine environment?), but that's about all I've found, other than it being referenced as 316 S31. I'll look it up in our references at work tomorrow. I suspect that it's got a much higher thermal conductivity than Ti, but a lower specific heat (amount of energy in joules to raise the temp of 1 kg by 1°C). Meaning, it'll transfer heat better but it get's hotter quicker.
    Last edited by Codeman; 07-19-2006 at 02:52 PM.
    Ray
    Good people need to be there for each other. It's the only way to stay sane in a sometimes insane world.

  13. #13
    Flashaholic* dmdrewitt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    Rob

    Without battery and spring, one magnet will stick to the battery case. I guess I have a SS one. (I just tried and 2, & 3 magnets will also stick)

    I would like to take you up on the £100 Ti offer when they are made.

    David

  14. #14
    Flashaholic* orb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by WAVE_PARTICLE
    Man....this is totally unacceptable. I can believe a manufacturer can let something like this happen. I mean, seriously..... you had a RAW SS in the works and you are only telling us NOW?!??!?

    Paypal locked and loaded.


    WP
    You almost had me there WP.
    Big for the kind coments Guys, This is a Massive blunder for me & glad of any support to make things right.

    Ouchmyfinger, Do you know if you want to keep your Raw SS?
    I'll find out as much as Possible about the S31 Tomorrow.

    again, so far for the intial kind Responce to this.
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    Well, I have the real Ti. No magnetism and light as a feather. Man, I kinda want that SS Raw now aswell. If Rob doesn't make any more of them they are going to be pretty rare...

  16. #16
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    Naughty Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    Rob, I'm not yet 100% sure but I think I will most likely keep it and pay you the 100pounds. Cause, uh, flashlights are more important than food.

    I don't think I said this before, but you really are handling this in a very nice way - and I don't think anyone here blames you for what happened.

  17. #17
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    Naughty Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    It's kinda a good news. I'll go and check two of mine at the end of this month. Hopefully i can have one Ti & one SS.

  18. #18
    Flashaholic* Cliffnopus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    I just double checked mine and it's a "real" Ti NS, not one of the "Faux-Ti's" ...which on eBay are now going to be billed as "Rare".

    Cliff

    ps: Rob, great job in how you are handling this. You're to be commended....after you pass the course on "Ti Recognition 101"
    Every normal man must be tempted at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats!
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  19. #19
    Flashaholic* WAVE_PARTICLE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    ..... I just checked mine.....

    It's 100% Titanium.... ....guess I lost the lottery...



    WP

  20. #20
    Flashaholic RemingtonBPD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    Hope you didn't get the DA confused with the SS...

    Rob this certainly makes me even more happy to purchasing a light from you...definately a classy move...good people on here that's for sure.
    Mmmmm flashlights

  21. #21
    Flashaholic GrooveRite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    I have no doubt in my mind now of ever having second thoughts about dealing with Rob (Orb). Your actions in handling this (minor if you will, lol) inconvenience is to be applauded and shall not go unnoticed in our community. Your reputation is beyond stellar in my book!!

  22. #22

    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    Rob - as others have already mentioned, you're a class act. I'm out of town for a few weeks... will check mine when I get home.

  23. #23
    Flashaholic* blahblahblah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    Rob,

    My blue/violet H3 U-binned Raw Ti is really Ti. However, my green H3 U-binned Raw Ti is a faux Ti.

    I'd like to take you up on your offer. Could I get one of the new ones w/ 5 H3 vials and a U-bin (UWOJ or UXOJ)? £100+£30 ???

    Thanks, Marco

  24. #24

    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    Class act Rob!!

    We had a boat in the boatyard one time and it had a bent ruddershaft that needed some welding and repair work to it. It was rumored to be Ti but could have been a stainless alloy. THe guys knew I was a Ti nut and asked if I had a simple test. A can of Coke and a 12V battery proved it was Ti. Instant gold/bronze anodize mark.
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

  25. #25
    Flashaholic* GJW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    I'm travelling but I'll check when I get home.
    If memory serves it is definitely heavier than my NS.
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  26. #26
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    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    Hi Rob,

    You are an excellent person to do bussiness with!

    My Ti Raw pieces didn`t seem to quite match when I polished them and now I know why. I have the battery tube in Ti and the other appears to be SS because it is magnetic and heavy. It weighs it in on my scale at 10.9 grams empty the same as my NS. The battery tube is much lighter. Almost down to half the weight of NS battery tube so it is Ti.

    Hey, do I have a one of a kind here? Haha! I will need to buy the following from you if I may?

    1 x Ti & SS Raw combo light the opposite of what I have now!I got lucky I think because now I have a good excuse to buy another Orb Raw flashlight!

    Thank you,
    Ken

  27. #27
    Flashaholic* orb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    I am Truly amazed & humbled by the Responses Thank to You All.
    I have updated the 1st post with the findings so far & will add those who wish to Keep there Raw SS & Purchase a New Raw Ti for the £100 to the Raw Ti interest list in the 1st post of the other Raw Ti thread.

    Kenster: I hope you really do have a 1 off there as you having 1 half Ti & The Other SS is hard for me to Rectify. Unless We find another Mix Ti/SS Opposite to yours & arrange the swap. But then yours is Polished so we still need to figure out what is best here????
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  28. #28
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    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    Rob,

    We will wait and see what people have and figure out something I`m sure. No worries here!

    Ken

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    My "tiny ti" with the smooth end is Ti. I didn't really have much doubt because it is so much lighter than the ns, but I checked it with a magnet to be sure. This is one of the three that were shorter, so it may not have been in the possible SS group anyway.

    Rob, the way you are dealing with this glitch shows what a class act you are.

  30. #30
    Flashaholic* Cliffnopus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention Please Raw Ti Owners.

    Kenster, you have the "Ultra Rare 50/50" version all you need is a certificate of authenticity.

    Cliff
    Every normal man must be tempted at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats!
    H.L.Mencken (1880-1956)

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