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Thread: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

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    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
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    Naughty regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    The A2 as described by js and others is a fantastic light, but every good comes with a bad (if you beleive in the balance of good vs. evil and that kind of stuf). The bad part is that the A2 spoils you for ever. You simply refuse to use an incandecentnot light which is not regulated, and you refuse to use an incandecent light that is not nice and white

    Jim ("js") gave us the first Surefire regulated alternative with his M6-R, and even though AWR and Winny are working on regulated alternatives for the M6, credit still goes to Jim for the "first" regulated M6

    After modifying my own M6-R to run at 7.5v DC RMS , I first played with the MN15, then the MN20, and finally the N2. The N2 has long been a favorite of size15's, and now I can see why - it is a beautiful beam, with the most "round" lamp for the KT bezels that I have tried so far

    No, the N2 will not win any lumen contests, but for somebody like me that finds the A2 almost perfect for walking at night in my neightborhood, and also finds the MN21/M6 an overkill (although perhaps the most stunning beam ever used by me!), the N2 is quite perfect for a regulated, ultra-long running light . The best thing about the M6-R(7.5V) is that if/when I need "more", the MN20 will run just as perfect in the same setup - almost as if the LOLA for this pack is the N2 and the HOLA is the MN20

    Here is the A2 on low, then A2 on high (incandecent and LED), and N2 on M6 with M6-R(7.5V). All photos with Canon Rebel XT, kit lens on wide angle, manual focus, F5.6, at 2 seconds.








    Here are some beamshots of the N2 in "action" against other lamps on the M6. All photos with Canon Rebel XT, kit lens on wide angle, manual focus, F5.6, house on 6 seconds, and others at 8 seconds.

    First against the side of a house to compare the quality of the beamshot: N2 on M6 with M6-R(7.5V), MN20 on M6 (normal primary cells), MN21 on M6 (normal primary cells).







    Then against some trees, to compare trow and sidebeam: N2 on M6 with M6-R(7.5V), MN20 on M6 (normal primary cells), MN21 on M6 (normal primary cells).







    and finally, pointed at the trees, but from further back so that pavement can capture the brightness of the sidebeam better: N2 on M6 with M6-R(7.5V), MN20 on M6 (normal primary cells), MN21 on M6 (normal primary cells).






    Will
    Last edited by wquiles; 07-21-2006 at 10:48 PM.
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    Administrator Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    So I guess that by using the N2 in that M6R(7.5V) you are getting some pretty long runtimes compared to the MN20 & MN21?

    For me one of the great things about the N2 is that from a 9P+SRTH or M3T it produces a fantastic beam from really compact flashlights.

    But, it would be very interesting to have a side-by-side comparison between an M3T (N2) and the M6R(7.5V) (N2) to see when the M3T's output 'fades' compared to the regulated version.
    For me those photos show that the standard M6 in both MN20 and MN21 rock and that for me would be worth the extra weight and bulk of the M6 over the M3T, but if the runtime was well extended, and the M6R being rechargeable it would mean the M6R(7.5V) (N2) would surely have serious benefits as a dutylight.

    Very Nice!

    Al

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    Default Re: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    Great job Will. Any idea as to runtime on your pack with the N2?

    Curtis
    -- CUE

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    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
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    Default Re: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    Quote Originally Posted by cue003
    Great job Will. Any idea as to runtime on your pack with the N2?

    Curtis
    In fact, to answer you and Al, I finished charging the pack a little bit ago and I am right now doing the runtime test

    Will
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    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
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    Default Re: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    OK, just finished. With a fully charged pack, running the N2 on the M6-R(7.5V) I got 59 minutes until the warning flashes started, so I basically got a solid hour of perfect, regulated light

    So far with the M6-R(7.5V) I have:
    MN20: 31 minutes
    MN15: 66 minutes
    N2 : 59 minutes

    And between the N2 and the MN15, the N2 has a "pretier" beam

    Will
    Last edited by wquiles; 07-22-2006 at 11:35 AM.
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    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
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    Default Re: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Size15's
    So I guess that by using the N2 in that M6R(7.5V) you are getting some pretty long runtimes compared to the MN20 & MN21?

    For me one of the great things about the N2 is that from a 9P+SRTH or M3T it produces a fantastic beam from really compact flashlights.

    But, it would be very interesting to have a side-by-side comparison between an M3T (N2) and the M6R(7.5V) (N2) to see when the M3T's output 'fades' compared to the regulated version.
    For me those photos show that the standard M6 in both MN20 and MN21 rock and that for me would be worth the extra weight and bulk of the M6 over the M3T, but if the runtime was well extended, and the M6R being rechargeable it would mean the M6R(7.5V) (N2) would surely have serious benefits as a dutylight.

    Very Nice!

    Al
    SF rates the N2 at 105 lumens for about one hour. I get the same out of my M6/M6-R(7.5V) pack, but with constant output - perfect and regulated, and of course rechargeable. The tradeoff is the larger M6 package and weight.

    I would love to do a side-by-side test comparing brightness, but I no longer have a 3xcell M series body (M3 or L6), so I don't have an easy way to test the N2 on its M3T setup to record the fading/yellowing. If someone can loan me an M3T for a few days I will be more than happy to do the test

    Will
    Last edited by wquiles; 07-22-2006 at 12:23 PM.
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    Administrator Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    Quote Originally Posted by wquiles
    OK, just finished. With a fully charged pack, running the N2 on the M6-R(7.5V) I got 59 minutes until the warning flashes started, so I basically got a solid hour of perfect, regulated light

    So far with the M6-R(7.5V) I have:
    MN20: 31 minutes
    MN15: 66 minutes
    N2 : 59 minutes

    And between the N2 and the MN15, the N2 has a "pretier" beam

    Will
    Thanks Will!

    I wonder whether the MN15 & N2 runtimes are repeatable with the N2 always having the slightly shorter runtime, or, the results vary and the runtimes are pretty much the same?

    I think the vitally important thing is that these runtimes are for regulated output which is the amazing thing!

    Al

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    Default Re: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    I want a M6 after seeing those photos!
    G2+P60 G2+BOG3W G2+P61 Strion A2WhiteLed E1L E1E E2D T2 T3 X5WhiteLed X5BlueLed 6P+KL3 9P+P91 6P+A19+P90 QIII Fenix L1P 6P+LOLA L1

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    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
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    Default Re: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbit
    I want a M6 after seeing those photos!
    Good. My job here is then done. Another convert

    Will
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    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
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    Default Re: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Size15's
    Thanks Will!

    I wonder whether the MN15 & N2 runtimes are repeatable with the N2 always having the slightly shorter runtime, or, the results vary and the runtimes are pretty much the same?

    I think the vitally important thing is that these runtimes are for regulated output which is the amazing thing!

    Al
    Al,

    The runtimes will vary a little bit as the charged state on the pack by the Triton charger will vary depending on how depleted the cells where, if I top-off the pack before using it, temperature, etc., so a difference between 66 and 59 minutes is not really that significant. I would say based on a few days of testing, that on average you will get "about" an hour of perfect regulation with either bulb

    Will
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    Default Re: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    Will,

    Very cool. Nice work! I've never had the pleasure of using an N2, just the MN21, 20, and 16. Might have to check it out now, though!
    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

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    Default Re: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    So will the N2 run good off of 2x18650? Wouldn't that give a flatter response than using 123s?

    Curtis
    -- CUE

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    Default Re: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    Quote Originally Posted by js
    Will,

    Very cool. Nice work! I've never had the pleasure of using an N2, just the MN21, 20, and 16. Might have to check it out now, though!
    Thanks Jim . It sure has been fun playing with these different bulbs, thanks to the LVR's you made available to us



    Quote Originally Posted by cue003
    So will the N2 run good off of 2x18650? Wouldn't that give a flatter response than using 123s?

    Curtis
    I have not done that particular experiement, but I would suspect that the 2x18650 will in fact have a very nice response indeed. Now, the initial current on two 18650 cells "might" be too high for the N2, so I would not personally like to run that test unless I had (if not regulation) at least a soft-start. If one were to find a body/host to drive the N2 with 2x18650 protected cells with an LVR set to 7.5V, that would be an even longer running setup than what I have now

    Will
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    Default Re: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    Will,

    I've got something in the works/on the brain, and I was wondering, which is "whiter" (i.e. higher CCT) at 7.5 volts in your M6-R: the N2, or the MN15? And just how much of a difference? How does the N2 color temp compare to the MN15?

    Oh, and BTW, you can always remove three cells from the MB20 battery holder and run your LA's on just three 123's without owning an M3T. Just remove the right three. Check with DMM after removing cells to ensure you still have the other parallel 3s stack in line, until you have entirely removed the first 3s stack.

    Anyway, good stuff!
    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

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    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
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    Default Re: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    Jim,

    I can't tell easily which one is whiter, but I went out tonight and took some new pictures to help answer the question

    Canon Rebel XT on tripod, kit lens on wide angle, manual exposure 2sec/F5.6. Everything is the same, except for the fact that once I was done I went back outside and added the MN20, so the camera tripod for the MN20 shots is not in the same exact spot, although the exposure is the same

    First against a house:
    N2 on SF M6 with regulated LVR(7.5V) pack:


    MN15 on SF M6 with regulated LVR(7.5V) pack:


    MN20 (new style) on SF M6 with regulated LVR(7.5V) pack:



    Then on the grass:
    N2 on SF M6 with regulated LVR(7.5V) pack:


    MN15 on SF M6 with regulated LVR(7.5V) pack:


    MN20 (new style) on SF M6 with regulated LVR(7.5V) pack:



    I hope this helps a little

    Will
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    Default Re: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    This is all well and good but the N2 is hard to find.

    I have 2 incans that I love. one is an A2. I had an under performing LA when I switched it for a new one I got better brightness.
    My other favorite is a 6P with a detonator extender and turbo head and a MN15. I Don't have enough experience to know any better but this is a pretty good combination.
    The idea of regulating incans (like the a2) Is great. and the way to go.
    In time I hope there will be a regulated solution for these turbo heads.

    In any event the the N2 is hard to find.
    and I still love my A2.
    Yaesumofo
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    Default Re: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    Will,

    Thanks! I'll have to agree and say that it's hard to tell which is whiter. Hmmmm. Strange because on 3 123's I wasn't impressed with the CCT of the MN15. But yet you like the N2 beam because it is prettier. I assume it is nice and white, then. Ah well. I'll start my work with the MN15 and go from there.

    BTW, how hard IS the N2 to find? I saw it on the SF website. Is that a lie? Is it out of stock?
    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

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    Post Re: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    Quote Originally Posted by js
    BTW, how hard IS the N2 to find? I saw it on the SF website. Is that a lie? Is it out of stock?
    The N2 is currently impossible to find unless you run across one on the B/S/T forum.

    For whatever reason, SF has chosen not to note this on their site. I recently bought a new KT2 Turbohead which was shipped with an MN15 instead of the N2. I was surprised and disappointed at this and the dealer was also unaware this was going on.

    SF has promised me an N2 when they become available, but they have NO idea when that will be.

    Mark

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    Default Re: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    I really like my N2 on Li ions but you're right they are practically impossible to find. I've been in the market for another KT2 and if they are shipping with MN15s I'll have to see if I can get the vendor to check before I buy. I have a MN15 lamp and don't really like it so it sits in the drawer.

    -LT
    lunal tic (n)
    a distinctive behavioral trait or quirk directly related to or caused by light [15th cent. Latin lunaris. Ultimately from an IE word meaning “light,”] and [Early 19th cent. Italian ticchio.] see also: moon quirk

  20. #20
    Thread Killer Illum's Avatar
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    Default Re: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    what does an N2 light look like?


    these beamshots are pretty convincing....that this is going to cost alot

  21. #21
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    Default Re: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    Here is the link to the N2 on Surefire's website
    http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main....arch_id=179269

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    Default Re: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeF
    Here is the link to the N2 on Surefire's website
    http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main....arch_id=179269
    much thanks

  23. #23
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    Default Re: regulated N2 - A2's bigger brother ...

    All of this N2 talk distresses me. The day before yesterday I picked up my turbo head, which was sitting on the shelf with the N2 in it. With out thinking I Inverted the turbohead and the N2 dropped out, and of course hit the little wood table on it's way to the carpeted floor. END of N2. It shattered real nice. DAMN.

    Bill

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