New Raw K2 & NS K2

[megamee]

enough that i um... ordered another one. Just a basic 1 watt single stage that i'll change the led and mess around with. Hope to get that one in the next couple of days...


First one is great... the raw is really light and pretty bright. I think the current drive of 1050ma from a fresh battery it about right for me aswell.
Only problem i'm having is that the threads were getting stuck, but I think its ok now.

At first I was wondering whether I should have bought a rawNS but now I'm happy with the raw. I don't think the ns throws as far with the smaller reflector, I read that the ns is heavier (and I really like the low weight of the raw), and so I don't think its worth the extra cost for me.

[Changchung]

Hi my friend, please, can you let me know if you have this done???

Ring Light Prototype

Please, send me a PM or Mail me...

[orb]

Hi my friend, please, can you let me know if you have this done???

Ring Light Prototype

Please, send me a PM or Mail me...

Something I did a few years back only as a prototype.
One day I would like to achieve a high quality Bright Ring Light. The main problem is battery size!!!

[Changchung]

Something I did a few years back only as a prototype.
One day I would like to achieve a high quality Bright Ring Light. The main problem is battery size!!!

This is a good point, the bateries is always a problem... Well, if you find a way count with me...

[Codeman]

Woo-hoo. NS K2 sounds awesome!

A BIG thanks to lightrod for the awesome data!

[orb]

Woo-hoo. NS K2 sounds awesome!

A BIG thanks to lightrod for the awesome data!

Here Here,,, HUGE to LightRod for the data, I can quote real figures now

[RayEarth2162]

Hi Rob,

I've purchased a NS with T-bin from you before. What do I need to buy to upgrade that to a K2? How much would the component(s) be altogether?

Cheers
Ray

[orb]

Hi Rob,

I've purchased a NS with T-bin from you before. What do I need to buy to upgrade that to a K2? How much would the component(s) be altogether?

Cheers
Ray

If you can swap out your T Bin LED All you need is a K2 LED & some soldering skills?? Or you may want to purchase the whole K2 LED/PCB 2 stage switch.
Which would cost £23 + Shipping £3 or £6.

[LawLight]

Hi Rob:

Still looking at mid October for the 3 tritium blues to be available? Just thought I'd check to see if they're in early...

Law

[Concept]

Its here.

I wont say too much as it is going to get dark soon and I'm off to compare but the Raw Ns w K2 is here.
Small, solid, well machined, sexy little thing.

Yipee!

[Codeman]

My K2 LED/PCB 2 stage switch arrived yesterday. Unfortunately, my results are somewhat different from what lightrod saw.

In all of these shots my Raw SS with Lux3-TWAJ (Joker) and cutdown Joker reflector is on the left while my Raw Ti with K2-UXOL and cutdown Joker reflector is on the right. The 14250 batteries were both charged to the same level, but I went ahead and took shots with the batteries swapped, just to be sure.

On low:


On low with batteries swapped:


On high (exposure locked on this pic for all other pics):


On high with batteries swapped:


For easy reference, here's lightrod's brightness data:

...
First the light brightness data / summary. Not a huge difference visibly in the K2 vs the T, but the center beam brightness does improve with the K2 vs the T, and the Joker vs the std reflector:


...

On low, I'm not seeing an increase in brightness as lightrod did. It does look like the high output is brighter with the K2, but the spot is bigger as well. In real use, the K2, at least in my lights, is more flood-like, with noticeably less throw when compared to the Lux3.

At first, I thought it was just the difference in forward voltage of the K2 vs the Lux3, and maybe it is, but I thought Lux3-TWAJ were the standard for all of the NS's until the K2's showed up. If that's true, I would expect to see basically the same results as lightrod.

My K2's low appears to be the old low, instead of the new not-so-low. Also, the cutdown Joker reflectors that I bought loose back in late May don't tighten the K2's spot as compared to the T-bin. Although I didn't take a picture of it, I did try swapping reflectors in the T-bin last night. The reflector used in the K2 for the pics also had a donut hole when used with the T-bin Joker LED. I didn't try the known Joker reflector from my Raw SS with the K2, though. I got tired of swapping parts in and out because the Raw SS is a very tight fit.

Unless my K2 is a poor performer, the PCB I got is an old low version, the loose Joker reflectors aren't actually Jokers, or some combination of the three, I'm at a complete loss as to why my results are so different.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, and I certainly don't doubt lightrod's results, but I'm definitely not seeing the same results. There's got to be a reason. I'm hoping it's just some bone-headed mistake I've made.

Rob, can you shed any light on this?

[orb]

Codeman said: Unless my K2 is a poor performer, the PCB I got is an old low version, the loose Joker reflectors aren't actually Jokers, or some combination of the three, I'm at a complete loss as to why my results are so different.

Rob, can you shed any light on this?

There is another Factor, The Copper heat sink/Spacer (H/S) When I supply a K2 Raw or Ns I shorten the H/S by about 0.2mm this puts the LED as close to the Reflector as possible & reduces the doughnut.
You could try very Briefly with out the H/S & then if proven you could File a small but tricky amount of!!
Good Luck

[Codeman]

Codeman said: Unless my K2 is a poor performer, the PCB I got is an old low version, the loose Joker reflectors aren't actually Jokers, or some combination of the three, I'm at a complete loss as to why my results are so different.

Rob, can you shed any light on this?

There is another Factor, The Copper heat sink/Spacer (H/S) When I supply a K2 Raw or Ns I shorten the H/S by about 0.2mm this puts the LED as close to the Reflector as possible & reduces the doughnut.
You could try very Briefly with out the H/S & then if proven you could File a small but tricky amount of!!
Good Luck

Removing the heat sink helped some with the donut, but the low output is still about the same as my Lux3, both for the spot as well as the flood. It is no where close to the increased output that lightrod reported. And it is far from the "45-50 Lumen's" you claim in the first post.

I actually expected a new heat sink to come with the K2/PCB. I'd seen your mention of this earlier in the thread, so I included it in my email to you, as well as the PayPal subject line: "NS K2 UXOL board/sink/LED setup". I am not willing to file the one I have for 2 additional reasons. Were I to do that, then it wouldn't match the Lux3/PCB that came in the light. I also don't have the tools nor skills necessary to do the job, especially when you describe it as a small but tricky amount.

I can accept the lack of the new not-so-low setting. Please send me an appropriately adjusted heat sink, Rob.

[Concept]

Codeman

Just a question is the light approx 6" from the wall?

I have a new complete unit and at about 6" you can start to notice the donut but personally thats so close it doesn't bother me.

Good luck with your K2.

[Codeman]

No, it's more like 3-4". I wouldn't mind the donut in and of itself, but having the LED out of focus does bother me. Even a little bit can really hurt the hotspot.

[Pumaman]

Howdy neighbor,

I have a K2 Raw with not-so-low low and love it. I hope Rob makes this right. It does seem he should provide a modified heatsink. I have considered a red emitter sandwich will be watching.

good luck

[lightrod]

Hmmmm. Interesting. I rechecked my K2/Joker and got 320 lux on not-so-low at the beam center (after two minutes on a fresh cell), as compared to the original 308. I got "only" about 700 lux on high after 2 minutes on a fresh cell, a bit lower than my original 760, but in any case not too far off. I get about 70 lux on my "classic low" UXOK with std reflector.

FWIW I notice that with the K2/Joker I can just start seeing a donut at 3" from the wall - no visible donut past 3". Looking at my std reflector beam (with a the relatively new UXOK) I get a donut at about 5" from the wall.

[Codeman]

Both of my stock RawNS's with Lux3/stock reflectors start showing a donut at about 7".

My RawTi/K2/supposed Joker reflector starts showing a donut at about 6".

My RawSS/Lux3/definite Joker reflector, though, doesn't show any hints of a donut until 1-3/4".

I don't remember exactly where the RawSS/Lux3/supposed reflector combo starts showing a donut, but I'm pretty sure it's around 3-5". And I haven't tried the RawTi/K2 with the definite Joker reflector. After trashing a stock reflector last night getting it out of the body (a bonehead stunt on my part), I don't really want to try swapping another reflector just to see what happens.

At 1m, my RawSS/Lux3-TWAJ Joker LED/definite Joker reflector reads 100 lux on low, 870 lux on high.

At 1m, my RawTi/K2-UXOL/supposed Joker reflector reads 55 lux on low, 650 lux on high.

I just measured these on fresh cells (4.10V on the RawSS, 4.11V on the RawTi) after a 2 minute run on high for each light. Based on the differences we saw in the CPF Benchmark light pass-around, I'd expect a 20-30% difference, due to the inaccuracy of most meters. This goes beyond that, though. I suspect the reflector/Vf/incorrect heat sink account for the differences on high, but the RawTi/K2 reading on low seems way too low for those to account for our differences there. The only explanation I can think of for that is that my K2/PCB doesn't have the new not-so-low setting.

I wish I knew how to visually tell directly the difference between the stock reflector and the Joker. But, even if the supposed Joker reflectors aren't actually Jokers, I don't think that can account for the differences between our K2's on low, even when factoring in meter differences.

Rob's probably gonna be sick of me. Especially since I'd forgotten about a favor he did for me on my K2 order, the remembering of which makes me wish I'd just emailed him instead of posting about it.

I do want to add, just in case the fact that I own 4 Raw NS-series lights doesn't make it clear, I really do like Rob's lights. This just seems as out of whack as my slightly magnetic RawTi did, until we figured out that it was actually aero-grade 303 stainless steel and it was renamed the RawSS.

Rob, I really do wish it wasn't me - again!

[lightrod]

...the RawTi/K2 reading on low seems way too low for those to account for our differences there. The only explanation I can think of for that is that my K2/PCB doesn't have the new not-so-low setting.....

I'm pretty sure you're right about that - your readings essentially match my readings for classic low - and I have other classic low LED's / setups that confirm that same range of readings. The not-so-low is way too different (about 4x) and too obvious compared to the classic low to be explained by meter/reading differences. A final difference / observation that is no surprise but that further confirms the significant difference is that the not-so-low gets sligthly warm (not hot by any stretch) after a few minutes with no hint of that on classic low.

And it does sound to me that something in the reflector type/setup is the culprit for the beam pattern. It's too bad there have been factors (out of Rob's control) that have changed the pattern - Joker reflector available then not available, slug height changes. To be honest I'm not 100% sure anymore what combos I have other than knowing for sure I have a Joker in my K2 light, but in any case I think the beam tells the story. Actually for general use I sometimes actually prefer the softer spot from the non joker reflector - BTW just got a green LED which has a fairly wide spot visually with a smooth transtion to flood (on a std reflector I believe) and is very "easy on the eyes" - probably introduces even other factors into the beam equation so let's not go there!

It's interesting that although I continue to purchase other lights to satisfy my habit, and have found a few that I really like, my NS (K2) remains my hands down EDC. Very practical and useful, and so small I hardly know I'm carrying it.

Anyway - I'm sure Rob will do his very typical "right thing" and knows much better than I what all this means. Rob could you provide the optimum spacer height "specs" for the various LEDs? Also how DO you tell the difference in the joker and non-joker other than the beam pattern result? Finally - what's the status / any hope in getting more jokers? (I know you "nicely" asked Don!).

[Codeman]

Yeah, the whole Luxeon slug height fiasco has been a pain for everyone. The RawTi I got to replace the RawSS apparently came with a stock reflector, or possibly a Joker, we couldn't figure that one out. It apparently did come with one of the newer False Joker LED's, to use McGizmo's term, which doesn't match well with either the stock or Joker reflector. That's why I wanted to start fresh with a K2 setup for it.

[orb]

Fellas. I have been out all day today & could not reply until now.
The heat sink spacer adjustment is variable between lights, Because we are only looking at 0.2mm typically the tolerances & the thickness of the thermal epoxy come into play. It is crucial that the heat sink spacer H/S makes contact with both the heat sink on the PCB & the Reflector. If the H/S is made to small it will Rattle & not do its job.
When I assemble the lights each spacer is adjusted to suit each light.
Yes a Total PITA, Hope fully not to long away McR 16mm Joker Reflectors will be available & this will tighten up the beam of both Lux 3 & K2 in the NS based Lights.
I hope that covers most questions? Codeman I will send you a H/S with a skim of the face, please make sure it makes the essential contacts.

[orb]

Codeman: Yes you got the Standard Low. You will see the 22 ohm Resistor.
Did you want the new not so low? If you do your welcome to send your K2 Assembly back to be altered.

[LawLight]

Rob:
Have you gotten in the 3 tritium blue NS in yet?
Just wondering.

Lawlight

[orb]

Rob:
Have you gotten in the 3 tritium blue NS in yet?
Just wondering.

Lawlight

The Blue Locators should be here 18th Oct, along with a new batch of Raw Ns's.
No Slot smoothy's, 1 Slot Standard, 3 Slot, 4 Slot & 5 Slots.

[LawLight]

5 slot? Wow. I will take a 5 slot rather than a 3. Just can't pass that up.
Thanks,

LawLight

[Codeman]

Fellas. I have been out all day today & could not reply until now.
The heat sink spacer adjustment is variable between lights, Because we are only looking at 0.2mm typically the tolerances & the thickness of the thermal epoxy come into play. It is crucial that the heat sink spacer H/S makes contact with both the heat sink on the PCB & the Reflector. If the H/S is made to small it will Rattle & not do its job.
When I assemble the lights each spacer is adjusted to suit each light.
Yes a Total PITA, Hope fully not to long away McR 16mm Joker Reflectors will be available & this will tighten up the beam of both Lux 3 & K2 in the NS based Lights.
I hope that covers most questions? Codeman I will send you a H/S with a skim of the face, please make sure it makes the essential contacts.

I think I'm having one of those "Eureka" moments. Do the tolerance variances run throughout the stack of components, including the reflectors? If so, then that explains why the loose Joker reflectors I bought aren't as focused in my RawSS as the one that came in my RawSS, which is PERFECTLY focused. I've been using the RawSS as the measuring stick for my other RawNS-series lights, which now seems a bit unfair. I've been expecting to swap parts without needing to do any tweaking. To be honest, I don't know why I thought that, except that my RawSS is so perfect.

It sounds like some adjustment may be needed to achieve the best focus possible any time that a component is replaced. For those of us who might want to try this ourselves, assuming responsibility for it if we mess up, some info on how you do the adjustment would be very helpful.

When you adjust the heat sink/spacer, are you removing material from the flat side (towards the reflector) or the bezel side?

What do you look at to determine when you've removed the correct amount without removing too much?

Would using some fine sandpaper on a flat surface be a good way to make adjustments to the heat sink/spacer? If so, do you have any suggestions on an appropriate grit size to use?

TIA!

[orb]

I will try to get 10mins over the weekend, I will post some photos to show how the H/S should look to get the Ref closer to the LED.

[Codeman]

Great!

[orb]

Pictures are worth a thousand words they say. I have to agree.

Note the gap on the right is smaller/Closer. It is important there is a slight gap so the Reflector is not sat on the LED. As well as the H/S does not rattle between the two parts.
The Photo's were taken without the Two Stage contact pin, so this demo can be seen clearer.
If using a file or Grit paper take care to keep as flat as possible, & best to do it of the none bevel side, I.e Reflector side.
It may only be 0.16mm - 0.2mm but it does make a big difference.
Take care & Good Luck

[Codeman]

Super info, Rob. Thank you for going to the trouble for us!