Can Anyone Recommend A Paintball Gun?

Anyone here seriously into paintball?

I used to play a lot - I have an old Nelspot 007 I upgraded to constant air and put a stock, sights, and a hopper on. I think I got that gun back around 1990!

But all my friends got so out of shape I couldn't find anyone to play with anymore. I finally met some younger people that want me to take them paintballing. But, I want a newer gun cause I can't talk them into a stock game and I'll be at a big disadvantage with my old pump gun.

I mainly play in the woods, although I love to play in indoor fields and faux urban settings whenever I can.

I don't want to spend more than $200 if I can help it. I heard the Smart Parts Ion is good, and that the Spyder Imagine and Pilot are good for the money. One guy I'm going with got a used Tippman 68C for $50.

I've already got my mask, squegee, web gear, barrel plug, and all the other assorted crap you need to play the sport so I guess I'm fairly serious. I just haven't played for a couple of years.

I guess the #1 priority I have in a gun is reliablity. I broke a ton of balls in my Nelspot, and had to field strip the thing under fire at least twice a day. I remember one of my buddies made a sweet move on an enemy position. When he came up to fire his rental gun it literally came apart and he got smoked. LOL.

I prefer a shorter, compact gun because I had a long *** barrel on my Nelspot that was a real disadvantage at close quarters in "urban" settings. I'm not too concerned about bps because anything I get has to have a higher rate of fire than my Nelspot.

Reliable? Tippman model 98. It's a great gun factory stock, but if you want to sink a few bucks into it, get the 2 finger trigger and a Shocktech custom venturi bolt. The bolt lets you dial down the pressure while maintaining FPS, which reduces your odds of breaking a ball. A nice teflon barrel would make it a bad@ss, but, it's a pretty accurate short-mid range gun right outta the box if you use good paint. Hope this helps.

Well, if you're going to be playing speedball (which it doesn't sound like you are), I'd definately recommend the Smart Parts Ion. You can't get much better that than without going up into the $400 range. It's very reliable, fast enough for most people, and highly upgradeable. Also, it has vision eyes, so you'll never chop paint again (unless it's really old, brittle stuff, which you shouldn't be using anyway).

I don't know much about woodsball, except that Tippmanns are great. One of my friends dug trenches in the snow with his 98 and it never stopped working. I would definately consider a 98 Custom or A-5, either with a flatline barrel. Flatlines put backspin on the ball so you get greater range. One of the annoying parts of woodsball is when you see someone waaay over there, and he sees you, but you're both slightly out of each other's range. A flatline will let you hit him at a range from which he can't hit you.

DEFINITELY go with a Tippman 98 custom. :rock:

Excellent marker (gun), very reliable, customizeable if you want to do that later, and easy to maintain and work on.

mchlwise said:

DEFINITELY go with a Tippman 98 custom. :rock:

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'nuff said.

If you don't care about speed and accuracy (with the stock barrel), 98C is definately the way to go. It's a great gun, you just can't shoot fast on it at all, and you get a lot of "fliers" with the stock barrel.

Chris201W said:

...you just can't shoot fast on it at all...

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define "fast".

No, you certainly can't shoot a Tippman as fast as you can shoot a speedball gun, but you can shoot it plenty fast for messin' around woodsballin.

I'm a very avid paintballer. $200 and below is a difficult price range. You're stuck with oodles of Taiwanese crap blowbacks and electro hybrids. IMO, the Smart Parts Ion is the best bang for the buck in this price range. I simply don't think there is anything else at the price that will come close to performing as well as an Ion does. Keep in mind that you're going to need to run compressed air on it to get good performance. If compressed air is a problem, then the Tippmann A-5 is a very good choice, and I think is better designed and isn't as cumbersome as it's predecessor, the 98C.

I have a Tippman ProLite, and an A5. My sons have had several Spyders of various models and now have the Ion. Ion is a great gun. Like was said though, it needs air, not co2. Now, it can run on a low pressure air tank. Using that setup, it is pretty darn quiet and even with a stock barrel is fairly accurate. considering how accurate paintball guns are. Very little kickback, so consecutive shots stay on target well.

But I have to say, I still like the A5. It's not fast. But you can add on to it later. You can get an electronic trigger, or get the crank trigger I have. I can shoot single shot with the trigger, or just turn the crank and fire as fast as the gun will shoot. I also have tried many barrels. And as much as I thought it was going to be wasted money for a gimmick barrel, the Apex barrel is the one i use most. You can dial in how much spin you want and rotate it to change the direction the spin is in. So you can make it curve left, right, down, or act like a flatline and fly farther.

We've had no problems whatsoever with either the A5 or the Ion. My son likes the Ion, I like the A5. And we play almost exclusively woodsball or scenario. I would NOT want to try to use the A5 for speedball.

Don't know much about these "tree markers," but I saw a shop over here that sells RAMs (Real Action Markers). They look and feel pretty much like the real steel. The company's called Rap4.

Enjoy!

Go to a local pro shop and see which lines they support. Spyders is a good choice for your price range. The Ion will require a higher cost upfront because of necessary accessories. You could skip it all and just get an Ego or E2 from Eclipse.

Skirmish the Store in Reseda is a great shop. I would shy away from ordering on the internet. You are going to need local support for your equipment.

I would toss the mask and get a brand new one. The lens needs to be replaced anyway. The foam is probably falling too. The new masks are way more comfortable and offer a much greater field of view. You cant hit what you cant see.

A good mask is definately more important than a good gun. It's important for safety, but comfort as well. Nothing can ruin your day more than having a mask that fogs up and moves around on your face. Make sure you either have a good mask or get one before buying a gun. That way you won't be tempted to cut corners after buying an expensive gun. You won't regret it.

BruiseLee ...

My Brother and I used to play tourney paintball shooting eclipse angels and shockers... Then the impulse came out and I fell in love with it. Then the ION came out, and my brother fell in love with it. The eclipse guns were great... but for the money I could have bought ten Ions and invited all my friends to play.

Still have the angel, the autococker, sold the spydie, The impulse will always be my baby... This ION isn't bad for the price point.

Cons
It could use a trigger job.... and any cosmetic upgrades might not financially make sense

+Pros
+cheap
+light weight.
+simple
+the ION has an eye... and with a good hopper you'll never chop paint in ANY gun... Period... My empire B was worth every cent.
+you can also buy the ION in black which looks tacti-kewl... then switch the body for speedball.
+ohh and not to sound like a speedball snob... but you can't get very tight into a bunker (or tree for that matter) with a 98... they may look neat in the woods, but bring one to the field, and I know who I'm gunning for.... i'll take a light weight compact, composite bodied, Smart parts marker any day over some super-pimped tipman. JMHO.

That being said... the sport has changed a little bit since 1990. I wouldn't think of using the mask I used back in 1993, and wouldn't dream of running with anything less than a 12 volt revvy... this could be a substantial investment for you. Your best bet is to find a package deal on Ebay... Gun mask, tank, hopper, unless your current equipment is up to par with some rec. field safety regulations.

I've got CO2 tanks that are as good as garbage now that they've expired. And the local field owner made me retire my first mask.

If you want simple, go with the tippman, but the ION would be a much better investment if you have access to a High Pressure air tank.

If you want the tank of paintball guns, get the 98C or the A5. I got my 98C because I knew that I was abusive to my tools, and this was one that could, and has taken a lot of crap. Shot dirty, dropped, submerged (along with me, not fun in a large mud puddle), and works like a champ.
For initial mods, just get a decent barrel, like a Lapco Bigshot. Don't get any aftermarket bolts or internals. They don't really do anything (but put money into a dealers till), and the stock were actually well designed. After that, if you play at an established field with compressed air (also known as high pressure air, or nitro -for nitrogen) then a good HPA tank is IMO a good investment. Especially if the field offers all day air. Yes, even in cheap guns I like compressed air. And it is a very high pressure, starting at 3,000 PSI, so no your tool compressor won't work (and I'm not making fun of you if you thought that at first. I did too, and so do a lot of people).

One other thing to buy if you play on your own and not at commercial fields is a handheld chronograph. They run under a hundred dollars (the Brass Eagle is like $60 IIRC) and are a needed safety item. Paintball goggles are designed with the paintballs moving at no faster than 300fps. Sure they'll take higher hits, but how many? And we're talking about your eyes here. Also with that, is to get real goggles (you can get ok ones as a package with the gun usually), and not try to skimp with shop glasses, or ski goggles, or anything else.
A motorised hopper, while not absolutely vital since you aren't playing speedball trying to shoot at 16 balls per second, is nice to have. I first got mine because the balls would jam in my feedneck making me have to shake my gun to get them loose so I could actually fire. That was annoying.

like everyone else said, get a tippmann a5 with a flatline or 98c with flatline. if you plan on playing some speedball, get yourself the ion, the only upgrade you would probably need is a barrel, and if you are going to get more into speedball, theres the blackheart board, aftermarket triggers, and high efficiency bolts.

Unicorn said:

A motorised hopper, while not absolutely vital since you aren't playing speedball trying to shoot at 16 balls per second, is nice to have. I first got mine because the balls would jam in my feedneck making me have to shake my gun to get them loose so I could actually fire. That was annoying.

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Yeah, as you say, even if you're not shooting really fast, a gravity feed hopper is still very annoying to play with. You have to shake it to get balls unjammed in the feedneck. An agitating hopper (like a 12V revy) is much, much better than a gravity hopper. If you really want to shoot fast though, you'll want a force feed, like a Halo B, Empire B, Egg, or Vlocity.

Chris201W said:

Yeah, as you say, even if you're not shooting really fast, a gravity feed hopper is still very annoying to play with. You have to shake it to get balls unjammed in the feedneck. An agitating hopper (like a 12V revy) is much, much better than a gravity hopper. If you really want to shoot fast though, you'll want a force feed, like a Halo B, Empire B, Egg, or Vlocity.

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I have an RT that can shoot pretty quickly, and I run fine with an egg. Even the E-Grip (and older E-bolt) won't outshoot an egg. Those are topped out at 14bps IIRC, and that is as fast as most RT's can hit. Anything faster than an Egg (real name is Evolution II for any PB newbies) is overkill, especially the Halo B. At a minimum I'd go with a 12 volt revvy (Revolution). Don't bother with any of the old 9 volt, or the newer low end one, the Quantum maybe. It's only a 9 volt and uses what they call a rat tail or some nonsense like that. It'll be fine until you decide you want to shoot fast and come up with the cash for an RT or egrip.

The E-Grip for the A5 can reach the max speed of the cyclone feed at shich point you have a blender. I think it's 20bps.

I Bought My New Paintball Gun!

My final decision was to spring for a new Smart Parts Ion for $200. The final cost with a Halo B with RipDrive ($125) and a regular aluminum 48/3000 Pure Energy Tank was over $400.

I actually talked to 3 guys who were trying to sell their used Ions. They all wanted more for their used guns than the guns cost new - one wanted $85 more! Stupid kids - I got quotes from 3 local stores and all were cheaper than what these geniuses wanted.

O.K., here are some observations after playing with the Ion for a day.

PROS:

O.K., this gun shoots wicked fast. It will pump out 17 balls per second in semi-automode, and it has a 3 round burst and full auto mode which I think is like 30 balls per second! Just squeezing the trigger in full auto mode sounds scary!

Interestingly, according to the manual the full-auto and 3 round burst mode is not available in Ions sold in England.

This gun is way more reliable than my ancient Nelspot 007 pump. It has "eyes", which means it actually has a laser which detects if there is a ball in the chamber ready to fire.

The Halo B hopper - it failed to feed electrically on my second game. But, using the RipDrive to manually feeed my balls, I was back into action in seconds. This was probably due to my inexperience with my new gear. It fed reliably for the rest of the day, and even took some wicked hits during a firefight. But, the cool thing is when i was really pumping out paint, you could hear that electric motor going, loading paint...man, I felt like I was firing a minigun lol!

Players respect this gun! When you go on the field with one of these, you already have a psychological edge if you are playing against walk on noobs with rental guns.

CONS:

This gun has a hair trigger. I have been shooting since I was 9 and I'm 45 now and I've never had an accidental discharge in all that time. In one day with this gun I must of had at least 6 different accidental discharges. The gun does have an adjustable trigger; I'm going to try to adjust it to have a heavier trigger pull. Right now it probably has like a 6 oz. trigger pull!

The gun's accuracy with the stock barrel is just so-so. It's not awful, but my old Nelspot is more accurate (with a longer aftermarket barrel).

O.K., some of these cons are more from the point of view of using the paintgun as a training tool for serious social encounters.

I hate the fact that the hopper is right where you iron sights or scope should be. In other words, there is no way to really aim the gun, or even point it by sighting down the barrel like a shotgun. You just point the gun as best you can, shoot balls out, and watch them fly downrange like tracers, then walk them onto target. I dunno about you guys, but I don't fire too many tracers rounds normally, nor can I concieve of any situation where a citizen would be pumping out 17 tracer rounds a second.

The handling/pointing characteristics of this gun are horrible. You can kind of use the tank like a stock, but it's **** poor ergonomically. Length of pull is all wrong, you are trying to rest the bottom of a metal tank on your shoulder where normally there would be a rubber recoil pad, etc.

I don't like the red safety led at all. The old Nelspot had a simple mechanical crossbolt safety. Easy to see or feel if the gun was on safe or not. The Ion has a red flashing led. OK, I'm playin in Southern California in the summer and it's 90 degrees out. The sun is bright! That flashing led gets washed out - especially if you have been hit in the goggles by a few paintballs.

The same goes for the status led of the Halo B electric loader - next to impossible to see it in bright sunlight.

MISC:

This is probably not the fault of Pure Energy, the tank manufacturer, but I felt I should mention this anyway. My tank broke the first time I tried to refill it. Something about an O-ring or a nipple ring busting.

The reason I don't think it's the fault of the manufacturer is that the guys working at the paintball field I played at were total Bozos. The reason I say that is because when I got the gun it was set-up on full auto mode. They only allow semi at this field. I don't know how to change modes in the Ion, so I ask the guys that work there for help. The guy tries to push in the led button with a Phillips screwdriver! And I mean force it! I was horrified and immediately told him to stop! Luckily I had brought the Ion manual with me....

Then, like I said, when I gave them my gun for a refill, they broke my tank to the point that it wouldn't hold any air! At least they had the decency to loan me one of their tanks so I could keep on playing with my Ion.

My other friend's Dye paintball marker had problems, too. He wisely decide not to play at all, other than risk these guys monkeying around with his gun!

The trigger is huge, set up for rapid fire two finger shooting. This is great for the sport of paintball, which of course is what the Ion is all about. However, it's not a good thing if you are trying to replicate a real firearm. I can live with it, though - I try to think of it as an M1A with a winter trigger.

CONCLUSION:

It may seem like I had more negative things to say about the Ion than positive, but the positive things were major (rate of fire and reliablity), and the negative things were minor (except for the hair trigger and iffy safety, a real safety problem in my opinion). Overall, I am happy with the gun, and am looking forward to playing my next game with it soon (after I get my brand new tank repaired, grr.)

Oh, the reason I didn't buy a Tippman over the Ion is that new they are almost the same price, and although they seem to be as reliably as a Colt 1911, they can't shoot nearly as fast as the Ions can, which is important if you are playing speedball. Also, I couldn't find a used Tippman at a reasonable price, although my friend did ($50 for a 98c).

Re: I Bought My New Paintball Gun!

Great choice BruiseLee. I'm glad you like your new Ion.

BruiseLee said:

O.K., here are some observations after playing with the Ion for a day.

PROS:

O.K., this gun shoots wicked fast. It will pump out 17 balls per second in semi-automode, and it has a 3 round burst and full auto mode which I think is like 30 balls per second! Just squeezing the trigger in full auto mode sounds scary!

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True, the maximum rate of fire in semi-auto is 17 bps. I've found that it's actually pretty hard to reach that cap. When you put it in ramping mode, however, you just have to hit 6 or 7 trigger pulls per second, and the gun will start shooting at 17 bps. 3 round burst and full-auto are capped at 10 bps.

BruiseLee said:

CONS:

The gun's accuracy with the stock barrel is just so-so. It's not awful, but my old Nelspot is more accurate (with a longer aftermarket barrel).

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This is the one major problem with the stock Ion. When they powdercoat the barrel, sometimes some powdercoat gets inside the porting, leaving a less than glossy surface near the tip of the barrel. This definitely effects accuracy, depending on how much is in your barrel. There are a ton of aftermarket barrels you can get for the Ion that will improve your accuracy big time. I'd recommend either a Smart Parts All American, or Redz Pepper Stickz 14".

BruiseLee said:

I hate the fact that the hopper is right where you iron sights or scope should be. In other words, there is no way to really aim the gun, or even point it by sighting down the barrel like a shotgun. You just point the gun as best you can, shoot balls out, and watch them fly downrange like tracers, then walk them onto target. I dunno about you guys, but I don't fire too many tracers rounds normally, nor can I concieve of any situation where a citizen would be pumping out 17 tracer rounds a second.

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Yeah, the gun isn't really designed to be aimed, per se. It's a speedball gun, and speedball is too fast paced to take time to aim at someone. You need to be able to aim roughly by "feeling" where the gun is pointing, and adjust slightly while walking the trigger.

BruiseLee said:

The handling/pointing characteristics of this gun are horrible. You can kind of use the tank like a stock, but it's **** poor ergonomically. Length of pull is all wrong, you are trying to rest the bottom of a metal tank on your shoulder where normally there would be a rubber recoil pad, etc.

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A lot of people don't like the ergonomics of a paintball gun. You might try a drop forward, which moves the tank down and forward relative to the gun. This lets you get the gun tighter to your body, and possibly more comfortable.

BruiseLee said:

I don't like the red safety led at all. The old Nelspot had a simple mechanical crossbolt safety. Easy to see or feel if the gun was on safe or not. The Ion has a red flashing led. OK, I'm playin in Southern California in the summer and it's 90 degrees out. The sun is bright! That flashing led gets washed out - especially if you have been hit in the goggles by a few paintballs.

The same goes for the status led of the Halo B electric loader - next to impossible to see it in bright sunlight.

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I have also noticed this with my Ion, and it really is a nuisance. I can usually see the status of the LED by cupping my hand around it, but it's still annoying. I MUCH prefer a mechanical safety as well.

This should not, however, effect safety at all. You should ALWAYS have a barrel cover over your barrel when you're in an area with people who aren't wearing masks. Even if you do accidentally discharge your gun in one of these areas, the barrel cover will prevent the shot from being dangerous. It's just a minor inconvenience to have to clean out the barrel cover. Safeties on paintball guns, mechanical or electronic, are not meant to be relied upon to prevent someone from taking a shot to the face.

BruiseLee said:

This is probably not the fault of Pure Energy, the tank manufacturer, but I felt I should mention this anyway. My tank broke the first time I tried to refill it. Something about an O-ring or a nipple ring busting.

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A common mistake people make when filling nitro tanks is to punch the valve on the fill station, causing a sudden in-rush of air. This often breaks the o-ring in the fill nipple. I've done it myself. The best way to prevent this is to fill the tank yourself and be careful. If the field you play at insists upon filling the tank for you, either find a new field, or hope that the fill station operator knows what he's doing.

BruiseLee,

Glad you went with the ION, you won't be disappointed.

I haven't had many problems with my stock barrel, and although the Progressive barrel that comes stock with the impulse is bottom of the pricepoint ... it's still spot on... and i've never even contemplated getting a new barrel.

I understand about accuracy, was your nelspot a closed bolt marker? the difference sometimes is night and day. But to date, smart parts makes the most accurate closed or open bolt markers i've ever used.

Can't attest for the halo B... mine is an empire, and I haven't had any problems with it...
actually wait... I did have problems with the feed neck... being too big.

I ended up getting a locking CP collar for the feed neck... Not sure of the name...

Using NOS bottles as a stock really sucks... you could try a bottle cover with a "rubberized" end to help stick to your jersey better... maybe rubber cement as a cheaper alternative.

Please also check out the stilleto drop forward that fireball mountain makes... They're really comfortable... so comfortable that I had a friend make me one based on the design... cheaper.... and I got to choose the angle of my tank. (the bottle sort of lays on your chest... and helps you get nice and tight on the bunker)

as for training... I grew up in a military town... marines used to come onto the paintball field in full camo trying to play the game as if they were at war. We walked all over them not once or twice.... but all the time ... they would eventually ask for tips, and we'd have to retrain them for the sport.

ohhh... and if the field employees damaged your tank, have the owner fix it. There's no excuse for a field owner hiring employees that A) Don't know how to fill tanks and B) don't know how to adjust markers.... it's dangerous... just think what could happen if your 4500 PSI tanks FAILS. Some 16 year old working for paint doesn't care about your well being... he cares about that bag of paint.

all seriousness aside...

Happy shooting... that ION is lethal.