Would upgrading the emitter in an E1L help with regulation?

[KDOG3]

I'm going to order an E1L here shortly. I like the size. The only thing that I don't like about it is the regulation isn't that great as shown at flashlight reviews (scroll down):

Surefire E1L

I'm wondering if it would be possible to upgrade the emitter to the highest U bin out there (UV1L?) to improve the regulation off a primary cell. Would it?

I've also wondered about the regulation/runtime with a 3.7v RCR123 (protected or unprotected?) but nobody seems to know. Any comments?

[KDOG3]

I guess not!

[schiesz]

I'm curious about the 'highest U-bin out there' comment. Do you mean the brightest, or the highest Vf, or something else. I would think that the lowest Vf you could find would help more with the regulation. Also, i'd look for a different head than the current KL1 if you plan on cracking it open to change components.

If its a high Vf you want for some reason, there are M and N Vf U bins out there, lux III and K2.

schiesz

[Bullzeyebill]

Get your E1L and check it out. It may well be just what you want. You may get a low vf lux III that does fine with one CR123. If you chose to use an RCR123 you won't be disappointed, as it will operate in full regulation for sure. If you are not pleased with the output and or regulation/runtime PM CM and see if he can help you out. A nice SWOH lux I might just be the ticket, particularly for the stock bias, and the fact that you are using one battery to power the light.

Bill

[BBL]

I've also wondered about the regulation/runtime with a 3.7v RCR123 (protected or unprotected?) but nobody seems to know. Any comments?

rcr123 are brighter than single cr123, as far as i can tell... runtime with mine is about 35min, but my charger tends to not fully charge my cells.

[KDOG3]

Hmmm only 35 mins? That doesn't sound right. But you also mentioned that your charger doesn't fully charge your batts...

Bullzeyebill Have you run one with the 3.7v cells? If so, whats' your impression of the regulation/runtime?

[CM]

Your only choice in getting better regulation is to upgrade the *regulator*. The buck/boost in the KL1 is of a very novel design, however the efficiency is not very good (around 60-ish percent efficient with single primaries) The wiz2 and I think GD are probably high 80% to low 90% but you cannot run them with three cells.

[Luna]

The single 123a just doesn't have the juice to put the Kl1 where it needs to be. Use an RCR123 and you will like the results more anyhow. That is the best first mod for the E1L

[KDOG3]

The single 123a just doesn't have the juice to put the Kl1 where it needs to be. Use an RCR123 and you will like the results more anyhow. That is the best first mod for the E1L

I'm leaning toward that setup more and more. I'm just surprised that there is no hard numbers/graphs for that arrangement.
The only thing now is to find a good supplier of 3.7V RCR123s.

[GarageBoy]

Get protected cells. The KL1 will overdischarge your cells before you know it

[KDOG3]

Well just dropped the $$$ for an E1L from opticshq - so any and all suggestions would be appreciated!

[Bullzeyebill]

The runtime in regulation with one RCR123's, protected battterystation, was about 1/3, compared to two CR123's.

Bill

[cheapo]

the regulation curve will be much flatter with the r123 but it will have less runtime.

-david

[CM]

I sure wish Surefire would jump on the buck/boost bandwagon since there are many controllers out there that can do the trick. They're still stuck on five year old SMPS technology, while Dat2zip is on his third generation or better on his circuits.

[KDOG3]

the regulation curve will be much flatter with the r123 but it will have less runtime.

-david

Aack. So what would I be looking at here. An hour regulated or less?

[Bullzeyebill]

Dat2zip, and Georges80 buck/boost circuits top out at 5.5 volts or so, so would not be good with two CR123 applications. They would work great with single LiIon setups such as E1L, though there is no indication that Surefire will move to LiIon's.

Bill

[Luna]

If you can find a mc2es, you will not worry about runtime. Plus, just have a few charged up and cycle them. This is a pocket setup anyhow, not a 'burn all night ' light. You will llike it, don't worry. Runtime isn't good on low cap rcr's but you will see it isn't a big deal

[KDOG3]

Are there high capacity RCR123s'?

Not to push but I really would like to know what the regulated runtime would be on them.

[cheapo]

there are 900mah r123s at lighthound.com.... should give you about 45 min of well regulated runtime.

-David

[KDOG3]

Aaah Thank you! Thats what I'm looking for. And with a more efficient emitter, I could get an hour, yes?

[KDOG3]

MY new E1L came today. I'll give it some time before I decide whether or not to crack it open and mod it.

[MoonRise]

Changing the Vf bin of the LED would only give you 10-25% or so for a two or three Vf bin change. So going from an "L" to an "H" would give you maybe 30% more runtime if the regulator is constant current or constant power. So that would change the runtime from maybe 30 minutes to maybe 40 minutes.

The main things killing your runtime here are an inefficient regulator board (but it's apparently flexible regarding Vin) and a low mah power source. Going from a 2x123A power source and close to 3 hours regulated runtime (flat too!)to a single R123 and getting 30-40 minutes is not that out of line.

Want better regulation, better runtime, Li-ion friendly, multiple output levels, and one 123 cell size? Try an HDS EDC. Or an Arc4+.

[KDOG3]

Would it improve regulation/runtime with a primary cell?

[Bullzeyebill]

KDOG3, you just got your E1L so give it a runtime test. Try different batteries, primary, rechageables, and different rechargeables before you go tearning it down. You might like it as it is. Report back you findings.

Bill

[Kryosphinx]

WARNING: changing the emitter to a non-joker LED messes up the focus bigtime

[KDOG3]

WARNING: changing the emitter to a non-joker LED messes up the focus bigtime

Huh? How do you know that the emitter thats' in their is a joker? I really don't know what a joker is to be honest. Can you elaborate?

[Kryosphinx]

The one that you sent me had a joker lux originally. I changed the lux out to a new round-slug UYAJ and put a reflector in there. When I got my hands on an optic, the beam is totally different. Compared to a stock KL1, it's as if the optic was shimmed out a bit, which is indicative of joker vs. non joker.

A joker lux has the actual light emitting part a little bit lower than non joker luxes. It completely messes with the beam. I can get beamshots in a bit.

[Kryosphinx]

Left is non-joker + biasing mod, right is stock.
The only reason the non-joker lux is brighter is because of the biasing mod and the upgraded luxeon.