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Thread: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

  1. #1

    Default MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    This thread is the split-off discussion about the WarriorII from this groupbuy:

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=124886

    __________________________________________________ __

    Oh my. My warrior II just showed up. I plugged it in the charge and in
    10 minutes it was ready (it must have been charged already).

    Cheers to RR for a quick ship!

    The warrior II has the vented holes in the head. It's been running 15 minutes
    so far and it's pretty hot. Not just the head but the entire body.

    Very nice size - length actually. it's a bit thick. significantly thicker than
    a D mag. Reflector is nicely sputtered. clear o-rings everywhere - I suspect
    silicone.

    The beam - it's very similar to the 10w solarc. The characteristic pink and
    blue rings. Focus is adjustable so you just have to work it to mix the two.
    However, my bulb is about 3mm off center and the best I can do is match
    the pink and blue as much as possible. I have two circles, pink and blue
    slightly off center. (those of you have have solarc 10w HID's know what I'm
    talking about) Anyway, a bit disappointing.

    Compared to a 10w hid, it's noticably brighter. Less than the costco 35w
    in total output. It's quite a lot of light in such a small package.

    I just noticed that every now and then the HID will flicker. Kind of annoying.

    Finish. I examined the entire exterior carefully when I received. There are
    about half a dozen nicks and gashes. Two of which have bare aluminum.
    Some QC work needed. But over it's pretty solid. The finish is not mag
    shiney and yet not exactly matte. I believe it can be HA. I haven't done
    the scratch test yet, but that still doesn't tell you much. Oop.. it's flickering
    again. It's realy annoying.

    20 minutes elapsed. It's been sitting on the table tailstand. I can't pick
    it up now... it's too hot. Ambient temp is 73deg.

    I'm going to finish the runtime and take some pictures and report back
    Last edited by Kiessling; 09-09-2006 at 12:41 PM.

  2. #2
    Enlightened CarbonArc's Avatar
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    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Group Buy - FLASHLIGHTS ARE IN THE MAINLAND!!!!!

    47s- Cant wait for the pictures
    "I have a disease.... My disease is flashlights."

  3. #3
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    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Group Buy - FLASHLIGHTS ARE IN THE MAINLAND!!!!!

    4x7 ... do you happen tohave a CR123 bidy also ... for brightness and runtime comparo with the Li-Ion?
    bernie
    There is a type of perfection that transcends the quest for lumens. Buying a $250 1-cell light for "lum factor" is like buying a $250 single malt Scotch for the alcohol content.
    - paulr


    It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black.
    My shoes are too tight. But it doesn't matter, because I have forgotten how to dance.

  4. #4

    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Group Buy - FLASHLIGHTS ARE IN THE MAINLAND!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiessling
    4x7 ... do you happen tohave a CR123 bidy also ... for brightness and runtime comparo with the Li-Ion?
    bernie
    Sorry bernie, I do not have the cr123 holder

    runtime finished at 45 minutes. I just charged it up and am about to make
    another run. I checked the voltage and it was 15.05V
    That is NOT good. I hope this is not normal. This means if it's three
    18650 li-ions in series, each cell is about 5v. I pulled the back of the charger
    when the light turned green Not good news. Li-ions charged past 4.20v
    will kill the cells!

  5. #5
    *Retired* NewBie's Avatar
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    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Group Buy - FLASHLIGHTS ARE IN THE MAINLAND!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 4sevens
    Sorry bernie, I do not have the cr123 holder

    runtime finished at 45 minutes. I just charged it up and am about to make
    another run. I checked the voltage and it was 15.05V
    That is NOT good. I hope this is not normal. This means if it's three
    18650 li-ions in series, each cell is about 5v. I pulled the back of the charger
    when the light turned green Not good news. Li-ions charged past 4.20v
    will kill the cells!

    You really do not want to be charging Li-Ion cells to above 4.2 to 4.3 volts, depending on the cell chemistry.

    As I understand it, the pack is a perfect fit for having three 18650 cells inside of it.

    Charging them above this results in Lithium plating out of the ion chemistry, and is *extremely* dangerous for a Lithium Ion cell, due to it's chemistry! 18650 cells make the CR123A cell ventings/videos look like childs play.

    Please tell me this isn't true.

    Please...


    Additional scoop on Li-Ion cells over here:
    http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/show...2&page=1&pp=40
    Last edited by NewBie; 09-09-2006 at 12:44 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    Didn't someone say that there are 4 x Li-Ion in this thing?
    Not that I listen to Li-Ion pack data, but my memory urged me to write this nonsense ...

    45min is great for the size of the light though!

    bernie


    P.S.: shouldn't we start a new thread for evaluation? I think it would be better ...


    EDIT: I splitted off the discussion part and started this new thread. Please continue here ...
    Last edited by Kiessling; 09-09-2006 at 12:42 PM.
    There is a type of perfection that transcends the quest for lumens. Buying a $250 1-cell light for "lum factor" is like buying a $250 single malt Scotch for the alcohol content.
    - paulr


    It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black.
    My shoes are too tight. But it doesn't matter, because I have forgotten how to dance.

  7. #7
    *Retired* NewBie's Avatar
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    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    If it is true, that there is a problem here, are these covered under warranty?

  8. #8

    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    I check the diameter of the 4 cells together and there is no way that there
    is 4 cells in there. I'm pretty sure it's 3 cells. Specs say it's a 12v 2a light.
    hmm

  9. #9
    Flashaholic ShortArc's Avatar
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    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    Received my light a few hours ago. The charger indicated that the battery was fully charged (well almost).

    The runtime of my light was 44 minutes.

    I do concur that the light is too hot to handle with time.

    I am letting things cool down before recharging.

    Cheers.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    I fired off an email to MicroFire asking one of their design engineers to address the battery charging question. When I get a response I'll post it up here.

    Lance
    Life's too short to share it with a wimpy flashlight!!!

  11. #11

    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    is there a way i can lubricate the rotating to focus the head? without messing up my light like lubricating the threads for the battery
    i wanna keep things nice and slippery

    i really like this light so far! freakishly bright!!
    it makes my U2 look like a minimag... when i have my minimag next to my U2
    only thing that i don't like is how hard i have to screw on the battery kinda hard to get off sometimes
    Last edited by scaredofthedark; 09-09-2006 at 02:57 PM.

  12. #12
    Flashaholic ShortArc's Avatar
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    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    I should have added to my earlier post that the light I received does have a centered bulb, it does not flicker or have any nicks or blemishes.

    4sevens, maybe you should return it for inspection?

    From a thermal perspective I donít understand why they opted for vent holes.. The natural convection achieved could not have driven the temperature profile down by much. A conductive mass with fins would have been a better solution, albeit more expensive.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    So, the postman came today and THESE finally showed up:



    Which contained these:



    And my birthday is still 2 weeks away.




    Compared to my M6R/MN21, the K2000R is much brighter. As received, the light flickers only slightly when warming up to full brightness and the battery was fully charged. My M6R Ripoff holster also holds the light quite well.



    Richard
    Last edited by seattlite; 09-09-2006 at 04:29 PM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    I addressed the 15V charge voltage in the GB thread. There is a capacitor across the output of the battery. If you discharge this capacitor you will find that the voltage is in fact 12.6V when fully charged, which is exactly what it should be.

    What I think happens is the charger puts out current limited 15V and relies on the batteries internal protection circuit to trip. After the circuit trips the chargers voltage jumps up to 15V and charges the capacitor across the output to the same voltage.

  15. #15
    Flashaholic* N162E's Avatar
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    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by That_Guy
    I addressed the 15V charge voltage in the GB thread. There is a capacitor across the output of the battery. If you discharge this capacitor you will find that the voltage is in fact 12.6V when fully charged, which is exactly what it should be.
    This makes sense. I've noticed that when the battery is fresh off the charger, the first time you hit the switch there is a bright brief flash. Almost like a "Flash Bulb"
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  16. #16
    Flashaholic tysonb's Avatar
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    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    Gentlemen who have received the light,

    What is your opinion on the 'vent' holes around the bezel?
    How would you compare the Annodizing against that of Surefire?
    Did it come with that case in one of the pics?
    Are you happy with your purchase?
    How does the switch compare to a Z57 clicky?
    Is there a thread on the top of the bezel that will allow for a crenelated addon?


    Gentlemen in the group buy in general,

    Any ideas for a lanyard setup on this fella?


    Thanks for your time,

    Tyson
    -------------------------------------------
    Diagnosis: Technolust
    My lights: Surefire L4, Princeton Tec Apex
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  17. #17

    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    my vent holes seem todo nothing the metal still gets pretty hot....
    compared to the surefire iono so far it's pretty close to the U2 my U2 has worn areas around the knurling but this new light doesn't have those areas so it should hold up pretty good.
    i am indeed happy with it
    i don't see threads on the top of the bevel

    and i dunno what kind of switch you are talking about...
    and this flashlight is pretty heavy for it's size so i dunno if you wanna put it around your neck for long periods of time

  18. #18
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    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tysonb
    What is your opinion on the 'vent' holes around the bezel?
    I don't like it. IMHO, I would think twice about using this in the rain and in dusty, dirty conditions.

    Quote Originally Posted by tysonb
    How would you compare the Annodizing against that of Surefire?
    Cosmetically, The annodizing is better matched then that of SF. However, I'm uncertain about durability.

    Quote Originally Posted by tysonb
    Did it come with that case in one of the pics?
    No case. Just a couple of blue boxes, one for the head/rechargeable battery, and the other for the charging base and power brick. Boxes look like the ones that ship with Pila batteries/charger.

    Quote Originally Posted by tysonb
    Are you happy with your purchase?
    Yes. It throws like crazy, and its output is MUCH greater than an M6/MN21. HOWEVER, it takes about 20-30 seconds to reach full brightness. At the $400 price point, you get lots of lumens and throw in a package that is just slightly bigger than an M6.

    Quote Originally Posted by tysonb
    How does the switch compare to a Z57 clicky?
    Clicky tail switch feels like a larger version of the Vital Gear clicky.

    Quote Originally Posted by tysonb
    Is there a thread on the top of the bezel that will allow for a crenelated addon?
    I don't see one.

    Quote Originally Posted by tysonb
    Any ideas for a lanyard setup on this fella?
    There are slotted holes on the tailswitch guard, which could be used for a lanyard. What type...I don't know.

  19. #19
    Enlightened CarbonArc's Avatar
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    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    Does anyone have any good beamshots posted yet? also what does the bulb in this model look like? Thanks
    "I have a disease.... My disease is flashlights."

  20. #20
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    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    Don't have mine yet but if you want a lanyard how about narrow webbing (like for a camera or binocular strap) passed through one of those slots on the tailcap. Superglue is quite good at sticking webbing back to itelf to form a loop if you can't find a ladder buckle in a small enough size.

    Cheers.
    Vandrecken
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  21. #21
    Enlightened CarbonArc's Avatar
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    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    This page might spark some creativity. If anyone comes up with anything good let me know. http://www.berkeleypoint.com/applica...hts/index.html
    "I have a disease.... My disease is flashlights."

  22. #22
    Flashaholic ShortArc's Avatar
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    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    Here are a few pictures showing the bulb.






    Also I did discover a few nicks but nothing really worth mentioning



    Overall a nice light (still donít like the vent holes).



  23. #23
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    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    I also don't like the vent holes. Also the smooth body makes it difficult to get a firm grip. Not enough knurling on the lights body. However, the light is bright with great throw. The beam and body also do produce a pretty cool light sabre effect.

  24. #24

    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    did anyone find a way to take off the bezel yet? or find a way to lubricate the threads for the focusing head?

  25. #25

    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    I don't understand or agree with people that take these small HIGH PERFORMANCE lights and turn them on and leave them on a table to perform runtime tests.

    Your hand / body acts as a heat sink to keep the lights temperature down. If your light is to HOT to hold I think it's best you turn it off before you risk damaging it.

    This K2000R is a nice *Little* light. It's bar NONE the *smallest* brightest light currently available. Small lights have there advantages and draw backs. If you want a light that you can leave on unattended then maybe you should pick up an AE Shorty 24w HID the output and runtime is comparable but is 2+ times the size and can dissipate the heat when left unattended.



    Mac
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    *Note* Shipping Insurance must be requested.

  26. #26

    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    I've been using mine on walks and exploring outside the house at night.
    Pretty neat. I have verified that it does properly charge the li-ions. (whew!)
    When fully charged, and the switch is not engaged, the capacitor retains 15v.
    But if the switch is engaged it reads 12.48v which is 4.16v for each cell.
    Perfectly okay. It does get a big warm after 10 minutes... even in hand
    and walking around.

    I didn't like the vent holes at first, but now I dont' mind. There are o rings
    that seal up everything. I do believe it helps. The reflector temperature
    is much greater than the body. If the inside was finned, that would be
    a neat effect.

  27. #27
    *Retired* NewBie's Avatar
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    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    Could someone please post non-saturated and saturated beamshots please?

    Non-saturated means the center is not solid white and washed out.

    Saturated would show the flood area well.

  28. #28
    Enlightened CarbonArc's Avatar
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    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    I recieved my light today and cant wait to test it out tonight. Will keep everyone updated.
    "I have a disease.... My disease is flashlights."

  29. #29
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    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    I received a response for MicroFire about the battery charger. They assured me everything was okay and working as intended, and that in addition to, "...a digital protection circuit inside the battery, our chargers are ďsmartĒ, with over-charging and short-circuit protection, they stop charging automatically once the battery is full, and you even need not take them off charge to stop over charging".

    Hope this helps to alleviate some concerns and provides a little more information about the battery/charger circuitry.

    Lance
    Life's too short to share it with a wimpy flashlight!!!

  30. #30
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    Default Re: MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread

    I received my two Warriors today and here are my initial observations:

    1) This light is not anodized, the finish is black powdercoat. (Personally I prefer powdercoat over type II; I don't think either is clearly superior in terms of durability if done properly.)

    2) One of my lights has a clearly superior beam; nice, round and uniform in color. The other has a very reddish halo and rough edges around the main spot. It doesn't bother me a bit though.

    3) What a crap job of packing they did. Both my lights had pieces bouncing around inside their respective boxes, scuffing the finish and damaging the screw threads on both light heads. I was able to repair the threads on my lathe, but CRIPES!!

    4) The sealing o-rings are silicone; this is okay, but I think Surefire did a better job when spec'ing buna-n for their rings. Silicone is not good against tearing/abrasion (so keep them well-lubed with NYOGEL - silicone is not resistant to some types of grease). But, silicone has a much higher operating temp than buna-n, in the 400 F range... does it matter? Probably not, but these lights do run quite hot.

    5) Mac was right, these are very bright lights, and they do run hot.

    6) The vent holes do scare me a little, not so much from a cosmetics standpoint as a contaminant-intrustion standpoint.

    7) To those of you who have spare batteries: Are any of you interested in a Delrin threaded plug to protect the contacts? If there's enough interest I would be willing to manage a group buy.

    8) The clicky switch: I like its feel. It's a light click rather than a heavy click. It's not as tactile as the Surefires, but I rather light it.

    9) If I think of anything else I'll edit this posting!

    EDIT:
    So I disassembled my light today to smooth out the focusing mechanism, and to see what makes this baby tick. (Itís easier than you think.) First off, let me say this is a cleverly designed and very well-made light. I canít comment on the reliability of the electronics, but mechanically speaking, I am very comfortable with the prospects of this lightís ruggedness. The weak link might be the lamp itself, which is suspended on wires instead of being solidly potted.

    Disassembly of the light consists of removing the battery pack, focus lock ring and bezel. The reflector is threaded into the bezel and the two should come out together; if they donít, simply pull the reflector out of the head. Friction from its lower o-ring could be holding it in place.

    The lamp assembly is threaded into the bottom of the head; it has notches for a spanner, but easily unscrewed by hand on both my lights. Both my lamp assemblies had all kinds of greasy fingerprints all over the electrical contacts so I was feeling real proud of myself after cleaning them hahaha.

    I noticed that almost zero lube was used during the factory assembly of these lights, and a touch of Nyogel went a LOOOONG way toward making these things run smoother. Also, one of my o-rings was torn, probably due to being siezed and stretched when screwing the light together. I ended up replacing all the o-rings with buna-n, which is a lot more durable than silicone and doesnít tear as easily.

    Now this is a purely subjective observation, but both lights seemed quite a bit brighter after this cleaning up and lubricating routine. Perhaps itís the placebo effect, but perhaps itís the cumulative effect of fully seating the lamp and cleaning its contacts?

    By the way, I donít think dirt intrusion into the headís ventilation holes will be much of an issue. The reflector is o-ring seals on all sides, and can be easily removed for cleaning if necessary. (Avoiding contact with the mirrored surface, as usual.)

    I also tried disassembling a rechargeable battery pack to see what the deal is with one of the on/off switches, which doesn't have a solid feel to it. But, I lack the proper spanner and don't want to risk scratching the electrical contact traces. (Other than that, the pack looks easily disassembled.)
    Last edited by scott.cr; 09-19-2006 at 08:52 PM.

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