Bike Light: LED vs. Halogen

[Vermonter73]

I've been lurking and reading a lot recently. It's getting dark earlier now! I need a new light setup. I'll be riding my Fisher Rig all winter. Mainly on-road, but some off.

Thanks for all the info so far!

Are those modified Mag heads with the led lenses glued to the back of the lens?

Where are good sources for parts?

Are the cheap HIDs any good?

[Sawtooth]

Great info Andrew!
Have you also tried Lux III orange-red? I have have some H2H bins that are
supposed to put out 200-260 lm. Do you think it would be too red? ( Ive never
sparked those LEDs up yet so I don't know how red they really are).

[Sawtooth]

Another thing that could help is to mix white color tint bins in a multiple emitter
light. I know people prefer certain color bins, but maybe a combination would
give better results...?

[turbodog]

Ok, maybe my incan prespective is skewed a little.

Check out:
http://mtbr.com/spotlight/lightshootout/

Compare most of the incan photos against the turbocat incan photos. Except for 1-2 competitors, the turbocat lights have vastly better beams and colors.

Now if I were riding with one of the crappy incans, they yes I would flock to leds.

But then I have about $1200 in my turbocat setup. See the s47 beamshot? That's just the beginning.

... Perhaps I'm too much in saying this, but I cannot see how anyone would want to use an incandescent bike light, after seeing how excellent the multiple LED bike light solution is, and how it lights up the road/trail. ...

Wayne

[BentHeadTX]

Andrew,
One detail that might help in my quest is the XR-E LEDs coupled with the tall McR 19 reflectors. Since they are taller, the center Amber reflector would be lower so it might fit. Cut away the sides that touch the McR 19's were they touch... not elegant but it might work fine. The point is to just blend them as you say.

One the other hand, the thing I am generally illuminating is a gray road with white lines so just running white LEDs would probably be fine. My problem is it is quickly getting dark and I need to have my light rolling within 45 days before the 1st of November (right after daylight savings time) Since the BAM is delayed (again) I'll have to roll my own so maybe I can try a few different things.

benthead.. you posted as i was typing.. Ideally you'd want to have a center emitter of amber with 3 or 4 whites around.. but to get some throw you need 20mm reflectors.. so it's not going to happen with maglite mods.. I do have a design in the works with 3x20mm around a cut-up 17mm for the amber in the center.. which would probably do the trick.

I think from the distance the amber just blends in.. it will just look like an incan light.. but there is a sparkly 'twinkle' to the LED lights.. maybe because of the bigger light images or something.. with any luck the amber will make it stand out more from a safety standpoint.

In a couple months.. maybe by mid-november i might be in a position to take on some modding.. for now i'm waay over-spent time-wise.. but getting very close to mass assembly of both the nano and the HDM6.. close enough to be sitting on the edge of my seat.

I don't know for sure if the two-point light sources would hurt or help.. my instinct says help.. but much more helpful if it matches your eyes... i.e. left and right... not up and down.

-awr

[andrewwynn]

the typical mag-mod multi-lux has a solid heat sink with emitters glued on.. the reflectors just set on the emitter shoulder and they are pressed down by the window (lens).

sawtooth. we've considered the mixing of white bins .. like WA and X0 and V1.. but none of them have enough red-orange.. and yes i've considered and even have some nice K2 red-orange emitters.. but yup they are too red.. even the amber is possibly a bit too much at close range.. it would be nice to be able to tweak the output.. but difficult to do in a series arrangement.

bent.. i like the McR19 and cree concept.. i've even been exploring some of the cree solutions myself.. unfortunately i don't think there is much of a diameter savings with the 19, so it very likely still won't fit into a mag head.. but it's worthy of exploration.

-awr

[Long John]

Ok, maybe my incan prespective is skewed a little.

Check out:
http://mtbr.com/spotlight/lightshootout/

Compare most of the incan photos against the turbocat incan photos. Except for 1-2 competitors, the turbocat lights have vastly better beams and colors.

Now if I were riding with one of the crappy incans, they yes I would flock to leds.

But then I have about $1200 in my turbocat setup. See the s47 beamshot? That's just the beginning.

In your comparison I could'nt find any multiple Luxeon light. The only led-light I could see was the 5mm led array by Lupine. But that's a complete another world.

I own the Lupine "Nightmare" system and a Trilux Mag-mod:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=120198

No chance for the Lupine system. It's a nice light and usefull for riding, but the Trilux setup is better. Perhaps I was in luck with the little yellowish tint of the -X1- ermitters, maybe.

When you will get the chance to test a multiple Luxeon light, do it, you will be surprised.

Best regards

____
Tom

[turbodog]

My point wasn't that I have never used a multiple luxeon light. It was that my incan setup is among the top of the top apparently.

[Long John]

Stay with your incan setup. If you really want to tweak it for maximum performance get a willie hunt regulator. He makes custom regulators specifically for overdriving light exactly like yours.

Turbodog, my impressions of your statements was not that your incan is the top of the top, but that your opinion is in generally, that incans are top over leds.

And this is not the case, specially because the thread starter asked about a solution to replace his incans with leds to increase runtime.

Best regards

____
Tom

[turbodog]

Ok, but still...... he said he wanted to increase runtime and maintain equivalent brightness. He also said he's running an overvolted incan.

If he wants to increase runtime and maintain brightness while using leds to do it he will have to increase his battery capacity because the led is simply not as efficient as the incan. I'm assuming he doesn't want to use about 100 5mm leds of cource.

Notice I am ignoring color temp and spectral signature.

I'm simply saying "look at the efficiency".

Turbodog, my impressions of your statements was not that your incan is the top of the top, but that your opinion is in generally, that incans are top over leds.

And this is not the case, specially because the thread starter asked about a solution to replace his incans with leds to increase runtime.

Best regards

____
Tom

[Long John]

I'm simply saying "look at the efficiency".

OK, I look at the efficieny.

In addition of ALL factores, since he is not a competition downhill driver and want to enlighten a whole football field, a multiple Luxeon light is more efficient than an incan IMO.

During riding a bike are many many different requests for a light. Less output on a dry street, more on a wet street, less on a runway, more beside.

So if the requests are nearly "normal", it's much more usefull to have a light with multiple brightness settings, so the user can adjust the output to the requests.

When you will reduce the output of an incan drastic against to it's highest level, the efficiency of incans against leds is completly gone.

In the same case the led-light will get more efficiency.

So it's not the complete truth to say lump, incans are more efficiency.

It depends on the circumstances.


Best regards

____
Tom

[turbodog]

I submit that the original request is NOT normal.

He said he uses a 20w overvolted light and sometime TWO of them.

That *IS* enough light to light up a football field.

[turbodog]

In fact, dual 20w overvolted lights could be a downhill racer. That's certainly enough light. Some automobile headlights aren't that bright!

[Nyctophiliac]

I agree that for most things, being seen is just as important as seeing where you are going. Hence I have two sets of red multi leds in the rear and two white led flashers in front.
Also I have an old lead-acid double headed Cateye spot and flood on the handlebars (I think they're 5 and 10 watts respectively) which are great for pitch black riding and last about an hour on a full charge with both of them on. I only commute and exercise so longer runtimes have not been a problem for me. But I do advocate a good helmet light to do two important things. To warn other drivers (in particular taxis, buses and lorries) that you're coming, and to look around if in black surrounding off trail etc. For this I use an ARC LSP modded by another CPFer, which is brighter and throwyer than my SF E1L. Again it'll do a decent 1 to 2 hours on a pair of NiMh 2500's and is great if it's a bit misty. Quite like having a lightsabre coming out of your head!!



Be lucky...

[ElektroLumens]

My point wasn't that I have never used a multiple luxeon light. It was that my incan setup is among the top of the top apparently.

Okay, I understand, in the biking world, incan is still a good viable bike light.

Wayne

[sv_ted]

Actually, I have two 20W halogens on my handlebars. One is a spot the other a flood. I generally use just one at a time depending on circumstances. Having two allows one bulb to fail and I am still OK. Occasionally, I will turn them both on. That is a lot of light but the runtime is only about an hour. I consider myself "light spoiled" in that 20W of overdriven halogen seems to be just enough.

[NewBie]

Whoah! Long post! Must have taken you a lot of time. A lot of thought went into it.

Adding amber is a good idea, for color. From what I've seen riding my bike at night, both on the street, and off road, is that color rendition is excellent. IMHO, I could not see that any addition of color was needed. Adding amber is could not hurt, I suppose.

Perhaps I'm too much in saying this, but I cannot see how anyone would want to use an incandescent bike light, after seeing how excellent the multiple LED bike light solution is, and how it lights up the road/trail. Might be a bad analogy, but I used to love my manual typewriter, I really like to use it, a lot. However, after using a computer, I just could not go back to using that clunky obsolete thing.

Wayne

Folks have been adding amber to white LEDs for a long time, it is nothing all that new or special. Some have even used six color source mixing.

See this thread:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/show....php?p=1591599

[ElektroLumens]

Folks have been adding amber to white LEDs for a long time, it is nothing all that new or special. Some have even used six color source mixing.

See this thread:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/show....php?p=1591599

Yes, I've known of this for a long time. I think it is in the arena of personal taste, or personal preferance. Some people like the color on the blue side, or purple, or on the warm side. I've even had people like the ugly pea green color. (See, to me pea green is ugly, and that is my personal preference.) I like the light on the blue side or pure white. Warm to me is okay. I don't think you can say it is not special though. To Andrew and others, adding amber is special and neat, and they like it a lot. To some it IS new, because they never heard of it before.

Wayne

[andrewwynn]

wow this is the busiest thread i've been on in while!

Ok, but still...... he said he wanted to increase runtime and maintain equivalent brightness. He also said he's running an overvolted incan.

If he wants to increase runtime and maintain brightness while using leds to do it he will have to increase his battery capacity because the led is simply not as efficient as the incan. I'm assuming he doesn't want to use about 100 5mm leds of cource.

a typical 20W light over-driven to 14.1V or so from a 14.4V power plant will only be like 20-25L/W which is the same as an overdriven emitter.. but as i showed by using a LOT of emitters that are under-driven you can get 40 L/W very easily and that will be higher than any incan other than IRC at 18.5V or more... you can get 30% or more runtime with the same output if you just use enough emitters.

When you will reduce the output of an incan drastic against to it's highest level, the efficiency of incans against leds is completly gone.

Absolutely correct.. worse than that.. efficiency and color quality are the pits even with a 10% drop in voltage.. and since a normal run of battery voltage there is a swing of about 17%.. it means direct drive incan will have a majority of their burn in an inefficient range.

It's very try also.. to say that lumping incan as more efficient since a typical incan will be about 20L/W even with some overdrive.. you need a very low hour bulb (like 50-100 rated).. pushed to 10hr or so to get the nice, juicy efficiencies we like in the hotwire world.

40W.. incan.. that's enough to put out a fairly decent spot.. but it's not enough to even raise my eyebrows now.. with an estimated output of about 800 total lumen.. when my favorite lights are typically 2000-3500L now..

It is quite a headlight to try to replace with LED.. but the prorposed 2x 3+1 solution with k2s.. would be a very respectable solution i'm sure!

Yes, I've known of this for a long time. I think it is in the arena of personal taste, or personal preferance. Some people like the color on the blue side, or purple, or on the warm side. I've even had people like the ugly pea green color. (See, to me pea green is ugly, and that is my personal preference.) I like the light on the blue side or pure white. Warm to me is okay. I don't think you can say it is not special though. To Andrew and others, adding amber is special and neat, and they like it a lot. To some it IS new, because they never heard of it before.

you can't 'prefer' whether or not light tint will make the 'real world' more visible, but you can be 'annoyed' if you like to have 'rose tinted glasses' so to speak.. it's scientific fact that the warmer tints will reveal more details out in the real world... the perfect example comparison is to take an X990 and a Maxabeam and a-b compare them lighting up a tree from 100' away or so (making the beam size comparable)..

the maxabeam's light has an eerie ability to take anything that is 3D and make it completely two dimensional! If you shine a tree with a maxabeam it will make it look like a matte painting!.. if you shine that same tree with an X990.. you will see more detail than during the daytime!

The effect of 3+1 (amber) is similar when comparing LED flashlights.. the 'all white' will make very 2-D looking images and the 3+1 will be very 3-D.. it's stunning just how different it is!

-awr

[NewBie]

You will also notice a number of companies have warm white LEDs. Their efficiencies have been improving, for some reason LumiLEDs seems to have nearly come to a stand still, as far as worthwhile innovation, which is sad.

An example is the 52 lm/W Nichia warm white:
http://www.nichia.com/product/led-smd-powerled.html

[andrewwynn]

i agree on the stagnation of lumelids=sad.. we've tried really hard to push them to make a warm-white that didn't suck.. they could put on the right phosphor to make a nice incan-looking LED, but they don't.. the 'warm white' 1W is way too low CCT.

thanks for the link to the nichia site.. too bad only 1W for those warm-white.. makes them fairly impractical, but perhaps a 3-up BAM with those.. for 150 warm-white at 50L/W.. the runtime would be fantastical!

more interesting to me is the UV emitter on the same page.. 365nm.. nice!

-awr

[jitin02]

Hi there,

I am jitin sharma . we are a india based bicycle company with daily production of 6000 bicycles.
we have a range of classic and vintage bicycles, delivery bicycles, mtb's, bmx, bicycle rickshaw, kids, ......

Related to our classic bicycle range........we want to know is -- from LED's and Halogen Bulb front lights which one is more liked by the riders.?? as of now we are using halogen bulb front lights.


Thanks i advance for your comments........

[Bullzeyebill]

jitin02, please start your own thread re your question. Please do not advertise.

Bill