I wasn't crazy about the cuda opening thingy when i've played with them, and isn't the lock mechanism a locking liner? I personally find the axis lock to be 'cooler', and i believ it is much stronger. hopefully you can handle both before making your decision.
Re: liner lock "weakness"
I personally have never had a liner lock fail on me. I usually don't subject a knife to very rough handling, either. I'm not sure if the way they usually would fail would be the liner bending, or just getting shoved out of the way if the handle is twisted a certain way.
just to help you make a decision, my 'cuda opening mechanism is silky smooth and can be operated in a snap... I don't know about the different locks, I do believe the 'cuda is a liner lock, though I don't see how it could be much stronger -
i have handled both types of opening things, but not these exact models. they feel different, but both good. as far as the liner lock, thats so common now as to be a standard. doing reading on the liner lock, its supposed to be greater than((----)fill in blank). whats the general gripe or safety concernon them?
just measured my little left-handed 'cuda, the blade is 3" on the longer one it is 3 7/8" - both have a bolt in the 'hinge' that looks like it would take a hex key - I don't know if they could be tightened..
I see what you're saying..maybe somehow it could happen that the liner is pushed into the unlock position. I find it not possible to do just holding it my hand and twisting it..but maybe the probablity of that happening could be further reduced by filing down that portion of the liner, with the thumb serations, so it is further below the surface of the handle, (instead of flush with it, as it is on my 'cuda)?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mikep: Re: liner lock "weakness"
I personally have never had a liner lock fail on me. I usually don't subject a knife to very rough handling, either. I'm not sure if the way they usually would fail would be the liner bending, or just getting shoved out of the way if the handle is twisted a certain way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I copied this from the NG rec.knives:
Last Updated: December 1998
A well-made liner lock is a beautiful thing. The action is smooth,
the lock is very strong, and it can be opened and closed one-handed.
However, it is easy for the knifemaker to make a mistake on a liner
lock. Many common mistakes can result in the lock accidently
unlocking, and this is a serious threat to fingers. Below are some of
the tests we recommend a potential buyer try on a liner lock. Keep in
mind that many of the factory knives easily pass all the tests below,
while many knives from custom makers -- including those lauded in the
knife rags -- often don't pass. Test your knives, don't assume the
more expensive knife has the more secure lock-up!
One caveat is that the second of A.T.'s suggestions, the
"palm-on-spine" and "whack-the-spine" tests, are a bit controversial.
We both feel that a blade should never close due to palm pressure, and
a moderate whack on the spine shouldn't make a blade fold up either.
Some makes say that a knife in normal use does not ever get whacked on
the spine, so this test is not real-world. You can decide for
yourself how secure you think the lock should be.
A.T. Barr's tests:
- You don't want your blade to open except when you want it to.
Always check for a good detent ball to blade tang contact. Open your
liner lock normally and then close it very slowly. The blade *should*
snap closed the last 1/16" or so.
- Open your knife blade very slowly, until the lock engages. Do not
snap it open. You want the tension of the liner lock to just snap to
the tang of the knife. Then do two things. First turn the knife over,
and using the palm of your hand try to close the blade. It should not
close. Then strike the blade spine on the table. Not real hard, but it
needs some pressure. It should not close.
[ Note from Joe: A lot of people have been cutting themselves very
badly trying this test. Please, be sure to keep your fingers out of
the path of the blade! If you can't keep your fingers out of the way,
a reader suggested trying this test another way. Put the knife down
on a table with the blade hanging off the edge. Hold the handle down
with one side, and put pressure on the blade back. If the lock fails,
it will drop and hit the table instead of your fingers. ]
- Snap the blade open REAL FAST, then close it. If it takes a lot of
pressure to unlock the blade, walk away from that knife.
- Open the knife blade real slow, and check for any movement. Sideways
or up & down.
Also, if your liner lock has a sloppy lock-up, sometimes you can help
it by snapping the blade open and then half-way hard striking the
blade (try to close it) on it's tang. That will help seat the Titanium
liner to the tang of the blade. If that does not work, send it back
to the maker. Be careful when you do this. If the blade does
disengage, the blade will hit your knuckle. A number of rec.knife
readers have reported good results using this tip.
Joe Talmadge's tests:
Open knife, then thumb the lock aside (blade is still open). Wiggle
the knife back and forth. If the blade has *any* play at all, that's
a bad sign. It might just be that the pivot is too loose, so tighten
the pivot until there is no more side-to-side play, and then make sure
the action is still acceptable. Sometimes a knifemaker will have a
bad action, and then make it appear smoother by loosening the pivot
On top of that, I do the "white knuckle" test, which many makers also
fail. Making believe I'm under stress, I grab the knife in a very
firm grip, letting the flesh of my fingers sink in and around the
liner to whatever extent this happens. Now the question is: will
small movements unlock the lock (if a small movement moves the lock AT
ALL, assume it can unlock it)? If the lock is too loose or too high
relative to the handle scales, a knife that passes the other tests
might fail this. I made an expensive folder from a well-known maker
fail this way. I sent it back to him and he fixed it to my
satisfaction. That is why I like the AFCK-style handles that do not
give easy access to the lock via a cut-out -- I'd rather it be a
little harder to unlock than to unlock accidently under weird
Bob Kaspar recommended a torque test as well, which is a test many
liner locks fail. You want to open the blade and then torque it while
applying pressure against the spine. The lock should not fail simply
because the blade is being torqued a bit. I do this test by sticking
the blade through something hard, a few layers of strong cardboard or
wood, and then torquing the blade while trying to shut it.
"Republicans Don't Kill People: Democrats Kill People"
One of my liner lockers failed the 'knife on the table test'; but it was put together with allen screws, so I was able to dissamble it, and carefully, using a diamond file, reshape the locking surfaces. Now it passes all tests. HTH
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by phred: Thank you Gandolf.
That is a very through articles.I printed them and will post them in my work shop.BTW, have you seen the Rekat line?...Awesome.
Unfortunately, ever since I found this forum, all of my 'extra' $$$ have been going towards flashlights!!
I have yet to handle one of the new Benchmade or Sog Axis lock knives. I've become so fond of 2 of my knives, I rarely carry anything else: 1)Applegate/Fairbairn Covert in my front pants pocket, and a Kershaw Starkey (G10, Walker lock ATS-34) on my belt. These two knive seem to handle anything I want them to do, although most are minor cutting jobs indoors ( as opposed to the greater demads made on an 'outdoors' knife: like the fact than no folder would likely hold up!) I have anumber of very nice ones, including a Randall Fireman, and 2 Al Mars (can't remeber the names....) Lots of Sogs, of course. But all I seem to use for the better part of the past year are the first two folders. I guess I'm just more interested in flashlights these days.... [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
It is quite sturdy and large enough to handle many outdoors tasks. I have one and it does ride VERY inconspicuously by virtue of the "lo-pro" clip.
I got interested in Al Mar products by none other than Al himself in the early eighties when he was still running his still fledging company. I met spoke with him only once and got "hooked" instantly. I have the older SERE model as well; purchased the day after speaking with AM.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gandalf: ...like the fact than no folder would likely hold up!) I have anumber of very nice ones, including a Randall Fireman, and 2 Al Mars (can't remeber the names....) [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks Kogatana and all else who reponded to my thread. I have ordered the Benchmade 942. $100. Guess what? REKAT or Al Mar? I know this is a light forum but I have gotten better advice here than Blade Forum. After all remember; GOD, Country, guns, lights, knives.. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
Go for www.emersonknives.com CQC7, I have a axis benchmade and like the CQC7 better. But if you want the benchmade, get it, i really like it. But, what are you using this knife for? If it is for heavy duty, go for the simple reliable emerson, you can disssameble it to clean it, the benchmade you cannot and with the axis lock, though not too complicated, has a higher chance of getting messed up. That is the reason why I get my 870 pump as apposed to my 1100 auto when I know Im going to be in a situation when I need reliablility NO COMPROMISE!
PS I have the gerber full size, i really dont like it, flimsy and no pocket clip. I keep it locked open next to my bed in a sheath next to my emerson for emergencies. The only thing it has going for it is that it is huge and real intimidating, to a scumball. But really to big for everyday carry.
!!!!It would be nice to have the next time a towel head wants to hyjack a plane with a butter knife!!!! Now this is a knife!!!!
Thanks Specialist. Funny you should mention Emerson CQC. I am looking close at that one. Also the Al Mar SERE 2000. The maker of Rekat seems to be losing it. QC is way off, and he is no longer responding on Bladeforum. Also see www.phonyveterans.com/ , they dislike him(to put it mildly). Anyway, back to the subject, I just want a knife(s) for carry only, not as a GP. As backup to my CCW. Sometimes you can't enter places(legaly) with a gun, so a knife will do. BTW, I also agree with KIS. I keep a Mossburg 590 pump in the house.
I think its round eye knife and tool, what a shame, another scumbag trying to say he was an elite soldier. True silent professionals never brag, loud mouthed or show off their creds, thats one way to know they are for real. Many times you never even know the person is a vet unless someone else tells you, remeber WAR IS HELL and who wants to be reminded of his experiences in Hell.
PS I Just got a report in from one of my friends who is a LEO doing perimeter security for the WTC collapse, he said it looks like a small city bombed out, and he says he doesnt even want to look in the direction of the WTC because it is so depressing. He says the TV pics dont even come close to showing the disaster.
Now I remember. I believe I bought a small, fixed blade from that company a few years ago. I either lost interest and gave it away, or it must have suffered the same fate as my TACMIII did; lost in a drawer somewhere in my house. I just looked at their website and did not find the model I purchased. They must have updated their product line, although I do remember that aggressive-looking Hobbit warrior model at the bottom of the page.
The Savant model caught my eye, however. The price is affordable. Any one have any experience with these products?
Have you tried a Spyderco Matriarch. I just got one today finally it's just a bit shorter than the civilian but a real wicked looking knife. Ok it's not made to be a utility knife but ought to work out nicely for it's intended use.
The Axis locks by Benchmade are awesome. there isn't much to go wrong. It's basically a steel rod that stops the blade from moving. Take a look at one to see exactly what I mean. It uses spring tension to move the locking bar forward, but there are two of them for redundancy and reliability. They are easy to clean, run it under water, or soapy water if really bad, then oil. The only disadvantage is that they can't really be taken apart by most users. My 710 was totally reliable while getting it covered in the fine dust of the Yakima Training Center in Eastern Washington (it doesn't rain east of the mountains, almost a desert).
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TTS: Have you tried a Spyderco Matriarch. I just got one today finally it's just a bit shorter than the civilian but a real wicked looking knife. Ok it's not made to be a utility knife but ought to work out nicely for it's intended use.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I obviously missed your post while I was on the road that week. I once carried the civilian years ago. I thought it was the "neatest thing" but it got so many menacing stares on the seldom occasions I used it, I finally "retired" it for fear of getting ostracised. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] I was working on a high-profile case that Summer and did not want any "...distractions." I switched to the Spyderco Pro-Venator shortly after the civilian "went to pasture." It is much more innocuous looking.
I own one of those axis locks 722, but im worried it will break or jam at an inoportune time(things like this always seem to happen to me). It has also been shown that during defensive fighting, the lock can accidentaly be disengaged and the blade will easly close. WHen i first bought it, i thought it was really cool, and carried alot, but im am going to replace this knife with either a commander or SOCFK. WHen you take a close look at the mechanism, it is a really thin and tiny ???wire??? that is attached to the axis lock which is the spring to hold the lock in place. I dont know how well it will perform after being gummed up with mud, sand, sand, dirt, blood, etc. The worst part of the whole knife is that it is more complex that other knives, and cannot be disassembled for a complete cleaning(i wonder how well compressed air will clean it, which is recomended by the instruction manual), that would be like if you couldnt diassemble a remington 1100 to clean.
I found the lowest price I've seen. Chistmas arrives early. It's a small(2.25 in.), fixed blade. I'm going back to my "roots." "Review" and (crappy) photos (it'll take a while for me to decide on a digital camera) later.