Phoenix Electroforms
Page 1 of 6 123456 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 177

Thread: B/S/T Fees

  1. #1
    Admin formerly
    known as 'Sasha'
    Greta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    The freakin' desert
    Posts
    14,331

    Exclamation B/S/T Fees

    For quite some time now, the B/S/T forums have been building up to and have become a problem. The biggest problem is the resemblance to a "flea market" atmosphere. In addition, there are problems with people registering simply to use the B/S/T forums and they add nothing else at all to CPF.

    CPF is and always has been a community of people with an interest in discussing, advancing and improving flashlights and flashlight related items. We have branched out a bit since the beginning of CPF to include lighting in general and a few other interests that seem to go along with the original intent. We even have a place where we can talk about our lives and get to know each other. And we have welcomed Dealers and Manufacturers into our midst in order to feed our seemingly endless thirst for "more".

    The B/S/T forums are definately an assest to CPF. But not if they are being used and abused by members who really have no interest in CPF as a community but rather only as a way to line their own pockets. Don't get me wrong... I have nothing against anyone who wants to make a buck. But if that's all you want to do here and you don't have any other interest in the CPF community, then perhaps it's time to weed out the chaf.

    Many of you have expressed in the past that you would not mind paying a fee to use the B/S/T forums. Well... let's see if you meant it.

    Effective 10/6/06, there will be a fee to use the SELL forums. The Buy and Trade forums will remain open and free to all for use unless I see them being abused.

    YOU MUST USE THE PAID SUBSCRIPTION FUNCTION LOCATED IN YOUR USER CP IN ORDER TO PAY THE FEES AND BE GIVEN THE PROPER FORUM PERMISSIONS!!!

    I will NOT spend my time manually setting forum permissions or refunding money sent outside of the paid subscription function for those who failed to follow directions.


    The fees will be as follows:

    $2.50 will get you one week (7 days) of unlimited selling in both the Lights and Non-Lights Sell Forums.

    $4.50 will get you two weeks (14 days) of unlimited selling in both the Lights and Non-Lights Sell Forums.

    The above fees will not include any kind of Supporter icon. You will simply be given the permissions to sell in the forums.

    Regular Supporter donations for Silver, Gold and Diamond Supporters ($10.00, $15.00, $25.00, $50.00, $75.00 or $100.00) will receive 1 month (30 days) unlimted selling in both the Lights and Non-Lights Forums along with the applicable Supporter icon.

    The option to support CPF with a donation of $2.50 or $5.00 and receive the CPF Supporter icon for 30 days still exists but it will not have special permissions for the Sell forums attached to it.


    The Sell forums will still be accessible to all members of CPF to browse and to post in. However, unless you have paid the subscription fee, you will NOT be able to start new threads in those forums. You will only be able to participate in existing sales threads.
    Obviously, there is a potential for abuse of this system. So alot will be put on you, the members, to be honest. And alot will be put on you to police yourselves. The moderators and administrators of CPF will be keeping a close eye on those forums but, as always, we will need the help of our members to make this run smoothly and to report any abuse and/or violations of the new policies.

    Those who abuse and/or violate the policies of the Sell Forums will immediately have their permissions for those forums revoked and their threads deleted. There will be no refunds of fees paid. Depending on the type of abuse or violation, the administration reserves the right to ban the offender from CPF permanently.

    And one last thing... Any member who subscribes to and uses the Sell Forums on CPF will be expected to follow the rules of the forums posted HERE for the Lights Forum and HERE for the Non-Lights Forum. Be sure you read and understand ALL of the rules posted in those threads before you subscribe and/or post. These policies and rules will be strictly enforced and ignorance of them will not be an acceptable excuse.

    This is not punishment guys... this is simply a way to get a grip on a situation that has gotten to a point of out of control. It HAS to be reined back in. Thank you all in advance for your cooperation and assistance in making this work.

  2. #2

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    Good idea!

    Perhaps consideration could be given to quarterly and yearly subscriptions that include full access to the sales thread. Maybe an open enrollment period could be designated to avoid the endless hassle of dealing with permissions.
    Titanium flashlights are like solid gold radial tires

  3. #3
    Flashaholic* abvidledUK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,148

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    I wonder what the implications for Dealers are ?
    Batteries, batteries, I need more batteries ........

  4. #4
    Flashaholic* Miciobigio's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Italy --->Tuscany --> Pisa
    Posts
    804

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    What about if "member X" ( having paid 2,5$ fees ) start a 3D to sell a "Glow-clip for SF and Arc flashlight" and go on for months selling these Glow-clip on his 3D ??

    It is considerated "abuse of the rules"?

    ..... just asking.....
    Marco V.

  5. #5
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Belton Texas
    Posts
    1,641

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    I kept meaning to be a little more reliable with my donations but I only seemed to remember when something special came up. This will give me a little more incentive to keep it up. A cheap price to pay for all the education I've gotten. And limiting it to those, including me, that have made money here is a good way to pay the bills and yet keep the education free for everybody else. I've already done my first payment and added the monthly subscription to my personal finance software so I won't forget in the future.

  6. #6
    Flashaholic* MSaxatilus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,639

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    What about if "member X" ( having paid 2,5$ fees ) start a 3D to sell a "Glow-clip for SF and Arc flashlight" and go on for months selling these Glow-clip on his 3D ??

    It is considerated "abuse of the rules"?
    Good question. Along those lines; if we have a sales thread that extends beyond one week, will our sales thread be terminated or is the weekly fee, just to start threads and then they will remain open till the sale is complete?

    Also, Sasha said:

    The biggest problem is the resemblance to a "flea market" atmosphere.
    That's kindof one of the best things about the B/S/T forum!! Building lights out of components and peices from various sources is one of the reasons I got into this hobby. It allows folks to customize and accessories their lights the way they want to. That's kindof what made the sell forums special. I can see some folks who only sell things occassionally or only sell smaller items will go away. Hopefully, this new policy doesn't impact that aspect of CPF negatively. I have rather enjoyed that aspect of this great community since 2001.

    Respectfully,
    MSax

  7. #7
    Flashaholic* Manzerick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Boston, Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,793

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    I've been donaating every month and agree more should. If this helps Sasha I'm all for it. I have noticed more people just signing up to sell us stuff. i see this as keeping it in the family

  8. #8

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    I have the same mixed feelings as MSax here... I've enjoyed selling and buying from B/S/T over the years because of the "free" aspect... the "free of mind" point of view.
    If I saw something that attracted my curiosity, I wouldn't hesitate as much to go for it just to try it out, since I knew I could post it back up if I didn't like.
    Because the forums have been free to post, I believe lost of flashlights, gadgets and accessories have been moved back and forth across the boards because we would just want to try them out, hold them in our hands, test them... and most of the time, when they are sold again, the members always use their common sense and take some of the initial price tag off anyway.
    They are ready to take that loss from the start. Now, if fees are involved, there's that initial loss + the fees to compensate for... Prices are bound to go higher, and it might result in the end in fewer sales overall?

    With the additional fees, I just hope it won't limit our curiosity, because that "flea market" that those forums represent is still the best place that I know of on the Internet to give us the opportunity to get our hands on so many flashlights. A few $$ is not that much, but multiply that a few times and for some of us it will become something to consider if you're looking more at trying out lights and not keeping them for good.

    I just realized I'm getting ahead of myself talking for "us" members, however I doubt I'm the only one thinking this way? Any comments?

    Thanks.

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* Miciobigio's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Italy --->Tuscany --> Pisa
    Posts
    804

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    Just another question :

    I used 6 times the B/S/T for giving away 6 free flashlight ( inexpensive flashlight that had no use for me ) ...... if i want to give away another .... i have to pay the fees ?

    What about a B/S/T/F Forum where F=Free ? We all have some useless flashlights or flashlight parts that are to cheap to put on sell without , the B/S/T fees is ok to me but in a place like the CPF a Free-Giveaway forum will be a nice thing , during my last 3 years on CPF a see a lot of users give away flashlight for free , Bernie give away in 2003 inspired me http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=29438 , if there is a Free-Giveaway i'm sure it will not remain post-less.
    Last edited by Miciobigio; 10-06-2006 at 10:15 AM.
    Marco V.

  10. #10
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Belton Texas
    Posts
    1,641

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    Whenever I have offered something for free in the past, I just put it in the Trade area. That can still be done under the new system since the limitation is only on the Sell areas.

  11. #11
    Flashaholic XFlash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    366

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by dabiscake
    I have the same mixed feelings as MSax here... I've enjoyed selling and buying from B/S/T over the years because of the "free" aspect... the "free of mind" point of view.
    If I saw something that attracted my curiosity, I wouldn't hesitate as much to go for it just to try it out, since I knew I could post it back up if I didn't like.
    Because the forums have been free to post, I believe lost of flashlights, gadgets and accessories have been moved back and forth across the boards because we would just want to try them out, hold them in our hands, test them... and most of the time, when they are sold again, the members always use their common sense and take some of the initial price tag off anyway.
    They are ready to take that loss from the start. Now, if fees are involved, there's that initial loss + the fees to compensate for... Prices are bound to go higher, and it might result in the end in fewer sales overall?

    With the additional fees, I just hope it won't limit our curiosity, because that "flea market" that those forums represent is still the best place that I know of on the Internet to give us the opportunity to get our hands on so many flashlights. A few $$ is not that much, but multiply that a few times and for some of us it will become something to consider if you're looking more at trying out lights and not keeping them for good.

    I just realized I'm getting ahead of myself talking for "us" members, however I doubt I'm the only one thinking this way? Any comments?

    Thanks.


    I also feel as you do.
    Thanks for the post.

  12. #12
    Flashaholic* abvidledUK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,148

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    Why not allow CPF'ers with more than a certain number of posts to Sell for free.

    Say, more than 100 posts !
    Batteries, batteries, I need more batteries ........

  13. #13
    Flashaholic* TinderBox (UK)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    south shields, england, united kingdom
    Posts
    1,901

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    you know what this means.

    the sellers allways win because they will just add the fee to their selling price.

    regards.

    John.
    Intellicharge i4 - LaCrosse BC-900 - MaHa C9000 - Charge Manager 2010 - Vanson Speedy Box - Accumanger 10 and 20 -Thunder AC6
    Solar - GoalZero Nomad 7 + Guide10 - Powerfilm USB+AA Solar Charger

  14. #14
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Pa, U.S.
    Posts
    607

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    I've only been here a short time and i'll be honest...This makes me sad.

    I havn't sold anything on the sell forums, but i've bought some things. Why not just charge per post? Say $1. If making money is the goal, it won't be much, but it'll help. If cleaning up the sell forums is the goal...I don't know. I sort of see the point, but it really just feels like a punishment of some sort. I HAVE noticed a lot of people with low post counts selling, but then again...I'm new too.

    To be honest too, i don't think its fair to the people that already donate to have to pay additional fees. If they're serious enough to donate on a regular/semiregular basis, i don't see why they need to be 'cleaned up' too?

    Not to be disrespectful, i just didn't think the sell forums had gotten 'bad'. I wasn't around before the summer to see what they were like a year or more ago though?

    ::: Greg

    EDIT: I'd even be willing to pay a yearly 'fee' or donation if it included the right to sell in the forums. I don't want a supporter icon or anything just something to 'support' the forums? In directly a lot of people do channel money to CPF through the dealer' section.
    Last edited by havand; 10-06-2006 at 10:43 AM.

  15. #15
    Flashaholic* Pellidon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    39.42N 86.42 W
    Posts
    1,300

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    I think it is a good idea. I am a occasional (mostly absent minded) donator to the site but a "fee" for selling in addition does not sound unreasonable. It is not my bandwith, hosting service, bulletin board software or maintenance time and effort that I would be using for free to sell things. The one time I gave something away on BST I did make sure I was a paid up contributor because I felt it was the least I could do. I do belong to other forums that require you to be a donating member to sell things.
    My doctor says I am a paranoid narcissist. I have the feeling I am plotting against myself.
    Rule #9: Always carry a knife. Rule #9a: Always carry a flashlight.

  16. #16
    Flashaholic* Manzerick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Boston, Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,793

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    I'd say 3,000 + so we don't have anyone who will give just a 100 post effort to just sell stuff

    Now I'm thinking the price will be passed on to the consumer and the membership may be the only fair way.

    Paying members ($10.00 plus a month) can use B/S/T..other can't.. this all does sound fair to me




    Quote Originally Posted by abvidledUK
    Why not allow CPF'ers with more than a certain number of posts to Sell for free.

    Say, more than 100 posts !

  17. #17
    Flashaholic* Anglepoise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    1,536

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    I think this is a good move by management.

    But that said, I sincerely hope that part of the additional revenue will go into the fixing of the speed problems on the site that crop up an a regular basis.
    David............................................. "A few of my Home Built lights"

  18. #18

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    Newbie here, it is not hard to identify by post count. Posted my second item to sell this morning and must have just got in under the cut-off.

    I am just making an observation/opinion about Sasha fee announcement and not complaining or being negative about the announcement. The problem stated is that some sellerís are not participating in other areas of the forum and only registering for the B/S/T access. I think that for those persons using B/S/T this will just add to the cost of doing business. Small price to pay and they still only work the B/S/T and continue not to add value to the other areas.

    To speak out and not have a purposed solution or alternative is not constructive. I donít know the tools that administers have, so bear with me on this. Positive and constructive contributions to other areas seems key to answering the overall issue of participation. Post counts are one and should exclude B/S/T activity. Post counts that are below a threshold or zero then no selling. In addition to absolute post count include a post per day ration to monitor continuing activity. Right off the bat I would expect that to exclude me for awhile. Or review the post for content if the count/ratio is low. No filler posts just to bump the count, but something constructive based on reading the content. This only adds burden to the administrator who most likely are already overworked and underpaid. It also adds a subjective element to the process which is always like poking a hornetís nest.

    On a very positive note, this forum has been a great place to visit. I have been on many other forums: guns, PDAs and bicycles just naming a few and each has their own personally. CPF has been the best in so many areas above all the others. I have become completely addicted! To put that addiction into prospective I have been buying new lights without selling the old to finance the new and some of the old are not very old.

    Thanks to all for their hard work to keep this a positive forum.

  19. #19
    Flashaholic* will's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,587

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglepoise
    I think this is a good move by management.

    But that said, I sincerely hope that part of the additional revenue will go into the fixing of the speed problems on the site that crop up an a regular basis.

    I have to agree with Anglepoise, There seems to be a roughly 2 week cycle of good response time, then it gets bad for a few days. There have been times when I just give up.

    If I understand the rules correctly - $2.50 will allow the member to start an unlimited number of threads for one week. Do the threads remain open beyond the week?.

    I like the idea of 100 posts and it is free, although that could be some other number - like 250. also how about time as a member, if you are here more than a year for example...
    Last edited by will; 10-06-2006 at 11:04 AM.

  20. #20
    *Flashaholic* jtice's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    6,306

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    well, i see this thread is in THREE places?
    guess I should have posted in this main one...
    anyway, heres my opinion.
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...99&postcount=5

    ~John

  21. #21
    Flashaholic* will's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,587

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by jtice
    well, i see this thread is in THREE places?
    guess I should have posted in this main one...
    anyway, heres my opinion.
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...99&postcount=5

    ~John

    another good point - The sales will just go to ebay. with a notice here at CPF.

  22. #22

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    From my initial read, it sounds like the sellers will have to pony up a few more dollars while buyers are still free to roam.

    The people this would hurt would be the low priced items where there is virtually no profit, if at all. For the dealers selling low priced items, they can easily recapture the expense in their quantity. I believe this would reduce those sellers selling fun items that may not be needed, but are available on a whim. That I would truly miss.

    Monthly fees... No, It would feel like a car club membership. I think the fairest way is to limit those just joining from selling goods at all until they have participated in # ? of responses. Maybe 150 is a good number. This would show a true interest in the forum, and in turn the forum would grant permission to sell some of their purchases from those initial 150 responses.

    After my situation with a bad-nonexistant product seller, I feel this would at least filter out those few bad eggs. If a new dealer/seller discovers the forum and has a product to show us, fine and good. Let them sell with less than 150- posting by depositing some funds to CPF based on the number of product and price. A kind of net % to the forum.

    My 2 cents.

  23. #23
    Flashaholic Luxbright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    371

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    I belief all constructive feed back is welcome. That said, maybe an annual subscription would seems better than "Pay Per Sale".

    Supposing, if you're selling an item for a few dollars so that everyone can enjoy using it at a low cost and you have to pay $2.50 to sell it and the item might not even sell any in a week, wouldn't it not make sense.

    Then the seller will have to factor in the $2.50 to the total cost.

    Just my 2 cents.

  24. #24
    Admin formerly
    known as 'Sasha'
    Greta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    The freakin' desert
    Posts
    14,331

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    Maybe *I* am not understanding... but it seems to me from most of the comments here that alot of you have not read my entire first post and how this is going to work...

  25. #25
    Flashaholic* PEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Buenos Aires / Argentina (I like ribs)
    Posts
    3,561

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    In my humble opinion, this is not a good idea. (I know discussing about admin/mods decisions is not allowed, so if this post its inapropiate I will remove it ASAP)

    Even after reading that custom BST is not fee based (yet) and I do all my sales there, I still thinks this is not a good idea.

    Punishing all the users for some abusers, its not the best solution.

    Unless this is done because the forum needs money...

    If this is the case why not take a small fee out of every transaction made? even for the custom BST ones, something like 0.5%~1%, there are many excellent solutions for vBulletin to do this.


    Its, again, my humble opinion that charging a fee for publishing will make the unfrequent seller to think it twice and probably sell the stuff at ebay.

    And posting a link in the other auction notices its still free...


    Pablo

  26. #26
    *Flashaholic* jtice's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    6,306

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    Sasha,

    Could you please lock the other two threads in b/s/t that you posted about this?
    Its getting very disorganized already, we need to keep all the comments in one posts.

    Thanks
    ~John

  27. #27
    Flashaholic* leukos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    3,443

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    This fee will just hurt the small time, occasional seller rather than the folks unloading all the chinese products. It should be small fee for every item sold, or some other means. This seems poorly thought out.
    Light is sweet and pleasing to the eyes....

  28. #28
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    CPFReviews.com
    Posts
    3,081

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    I support this move, I really like this idea. Its a really good move.

    I have been dreaming of this ever since I built HeatSinks

    Just one suggestion...

    Like E-Bay (they have some thing like Power Seller etc)...

    People who contribute more than a certain amount to CPF, should be given some sort of different Icon.

    like for example, person contributing for 6 months of selling or something similar.

    Also I would support a $1 (or 1%, which ever is more) as a Transaction fees for every item that is sold on/through CPF.

    This will not only help CPF to keep alive and running, but also reduce the "Spammers" who's sole purpose is just to sell and hide (perhaps sometimes creating ID just to sell) there could be regular members who create such ID's.... such practices would then perhaps be reduced if not totally elimated.

  29. #29
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    West Michigan, USA
    Posts
    490

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    Sasha,

    My interpretation of the new rules is, in short,,,,

    If we want to post anything to sell, we need to buy the privilege to sell for $2.50 per week, or $4.50 per two week period. Or, we can pay a minimum of $10 per month to get a supporter icon and then we are allowed to sell.

    There was a lot more said, but that looks to be it financially, right?

    Most of the complaints I see are coming from people that don't sell often and/or sell very cheap items. And they don't seem to think it will be worth it anymore. And for those types of seller, I tend to agree.

    For the sellers that sell more expensive items, or a lot of items, the fee is not really a big deal. I would assume most people would tend to amass a larger number of items and pay a fee for a week and then post all the items at one time. That should cut down on the number of sale threads. I assume that is what you are after.

    I have probably only sold 2 or 3 items on here since i joined years ago. So, personally, it doesn't bother me from the sales standpoint. But I am betting I see a lot less of the little items popping up for sale. And that to me is the fun of the B/S/T forums. Watching to see what shows up.

    Did I get it wrong?
    Bright Scouter
    Del

  30. #30
    Admin formerly
    known as 'Sasha'
    Greta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    The freakin' desert
    Posts
    14,331

    Default Re: B/S/T Fees

    And how do you all propose that I impliment or enforce the "per transaction" fee? Would it be fair to charge someone just to post a sale but if the sale doesn't go through, they get their money back? And how do I know if the sale goes through or not? How do I collect the fee for the completed transaction but not the transaction that doesn't go anywhere? Do I rely on the honesty of the members?

Page 1 of 6 123456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •