Laws on laser pointers in Australia explained

[MikeAusC]

When police find someone with firelighting equipment repeatedly near the ignition point of a bushfire, they don't arrest them for Arson, because they know it will be thrown out of court without evidence of lighting the fire.

Then why is it, that if I carry a high-powered Laser or a tiny knife - with absolutely no other indication that I may commit a crime - I'll get a criminal record.

Don't assume that Innocent-until-proven-guilty applies to the NSW Legal system - that was abandoned long ago - and most citizens still don't know.

[DimeRazorback]

There are things that are called proofs or elements of an offence. All of these have to be proven or discounted to be able to charge a person.
If they are not satisfied (ie. you have a reasonable excuse to possess a knife) then the offence cannot be proven.

Proving Arson is a lot more complex, as there are a lot more proofs and they are a lot harder to actually satisfy.

In regards to your previous post, is a person points a 200mW laser at an aircraft they will face sever penalties.

Why are you so disgruntled with the law?
It is what protects you.

Without it people would be walking around with shotguns, machetes, grenades or whatever you can think of.
They are there to protect you, not hurt you.
Do some laws suck?
Yes! But there is nothing you can do about it.

If you dislike Australian law so much, why don't you move to a less restricted country?

[MikeAusC]

I would like arsonists to provide the same "lawful excuse" or be charged when carrying firelighting equipment in areas of arson potential.

I would like laws that control the sale of knives - or aren't they considered dangerous weapons when they're in a shop.

I would like people fiddling with their stereo to be considered automatically guilty of dangerous driving - just like someone using a phone when the vehicle is stationary at the kerb.

[DimeRazorback]

In regards to knives:
According to Section 11C of the Summary Offences Act, these are the defences that are accepted as a reasonable excuse for the custody of a knife.

11C(1) A person must not, without reasonable excuse (proof of which lies on the person), have in his or her custody a knife in a public place or a school.
(2) Without limitation, it is a reasonable excuse for the purposes of this section for a person to have custody of a knife, if:
(a) the custody is reasonably necessary in all the circumstances for any of the following:
(i) the lawful pursuit of the person’s occupation, education or training,
(ii) the preparation or consumption of food or drink,
(iii) participation in a lawful entertainment, recreation or sport,
(iv) the exhibition of knives for retail or other trade purposes,
(v) an organised exhibition by knife collectors,
(vi) the wearing of an official uniform,
(vii) genuine religious purposes


This is so far off topic but I thought it was required.
I really suggest that you start to research NSW legislation before getting on the soap box.
You obviously have issues with law and it's guidelines, and I will no longer discuss any of this material.

It is what it is. Accept it, do something about it, or move on.

[MikeAusC]

Why are you so disgruntled with the law?

- because it's ridiculously inconsistent - the fine for smoking on an open railway platform is far higher than driving 20kmh over the speed limit.

If you dislike Australian law so much, why don't you move to a less restricted country?

- running away never improved anything. Law enforcers will ALWAYS demand more laws to make their job easier "you can trust us to apply the laws fairly". Citizens to register their objections when the lawmakers go too far.

[DimeRazorback]

- because it's ridiculously inconsistent - the fine for smoking on an open railway platform is far higher than driving 20kmh over the speed limit.

That is due to public out cry about smoking in public places. I personally hate smoking, and speeding.

Law enforcers will ALWAYS demand more laws to make their job easier "you can trust us to apply the laws fairly".

Are you sure about that?
More laws makes the job harder!
Public ignorance towards policing is disgusting.


Don't break the laws and you wont get into strife. How bloody hard is that?
Smoking is bad for you and others so don't subject them to your crap that you decide to spill into your lungs.
Speeding can kill you and others.

I just can't understand how you have such strong opinions, but the are all supported by such ignorance.
Let me guess who you will call when someone is bashing on your door threatening you.

I'm leaving this thread for good.

[wyager]

1.If you don't and haven't lived in Australia why should you care about it's laws?
They don't affect you. ....

2.Not many, but that doesn't change the fact that they have been defined by NSW legislation as a Dangerous Implement, therefore it is a prohibited item to have in possession. ....

3.Lasers have been deemed a Dangerous Implement. That is that. If you feel it is wrong and is due to our "nanny government" then good on you.
I don't care for Americas gun laws, but I make no comment about those.
We have a lot less firearm related incidents compared to the U.S, so what does that say?....

4.Laws are used to manage society, to make it as safe as possible for people. I am happy to know that there is the power for police to seize Dangerous Implements off people, as there really is no need for one unless a reasonable excuse is given. Why do we really need to walk around with lasers? Yes the definitely come in handy, I am not arguing that but these days people abuse rights, and therefore measures have to be put into place to protect the majority from that minority who have ill intentions.

5.Also, you state that lasers are not a danger to pilots, completely contradicting your statement that in the near future flashlights will be able to do so...


6.That is a very interesting quote. Can I ask you, if you had a person shine a laser in your eyes when you were driving, causing you to crash into a telegraph pole and rendering you a quadriplegic, would you be happy that they were allowed to carry around such an implement that caused such permanent damage to another person?


7.I like knives, I like guns, but I abide by the laws that are set in Australia and it's states regarding those items.
If I didn't wish to abide by those laws I would simply move to a gun free country such as the U.S and be content.

8.Also, your opinions on Australian laws are purely subjective, as you have admitted they are based on your opinions.

9.In the U.S there is the right to bare arms is there not? So any crazy can own what ever they like, and not face punishment.
What is safer?

1.It's a matter of principle.
2.Just because the law says something doesn't make it moral or sensible.
3.Firearm related crime is no less in australia (per capita) than it is in america. Same goes for great britain. I think britain has MORE gun crime.
4.Why don't you just let the government run your whole life? Heck, I'm pretty sure they've already made it harder for bars to use glass bottles because of the "violence potential".
5.I said in any reasonable situation. With a flashlight, you could theoretically hijack a plane while on board.
6.I would get in a car and crash it this very moment if I knew it would help preserve the rights of others (but it probably wouldn't). So yes, if I was lased/shot/stabbed I would certainly be pissed/dead, but that doesn't mean I want to ban whatever was use on me.
7. What happens when there are no free places left?
8.External points of view are usually more objective. Are you saying your views on my laser use are subjective, as you don't enjoy/use lasers as much as I do?
9.Nope. You need to read on american gun laws. I have to go to class now, but we can discuss more later.

[moey2205]

No need for quote here.
i ordered a laser 3 days ago and from aliexpress right i live in nsw and you reckon it will come through the border ?

[HooNz]

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...isbanetimes_sb

Did you see this clown the other night on the News , with video 'from' the Helicopter

[Angry]

Hello group, new member here.

I stumbled across this site and after reading several of these posts regarding Australian law and laser pointers I'd like to quickly pass on my experience of the last 48 hours.

I'm not into lasers as such, and this will probly be my only posting, passing on my experience.

I use laser pointers for detecting metallic particles in solution, termed Tyndall Effect, or lightbackscattering from colloids, and purchased 4 el cheapo lasers from HK on EBay. These laser pointers were listed on their EBay site as '<1mW'.

Customs in Sydney confiscated all four (4) laser pointers. They test lasers now, and one of these four tested at 3.3mW, as a consequence because all four were of the same design they were all forfeited to the Commonwealth without testing the remaining three (3). I received an illegal importation notice which stated my personal details are now on a register for the importation of illegal goods, which made me considerably angry.

I rang Customs asking them to check the remaining three (3) and was informed by a representative that 99.9% of <1mW lasers imported from China exceeded the 1mW rating allowable in Australia and they don't bother checking all of them anymore.

I then contacted Customs by email and informed them that it was never my intent to attempt to contravene Australian law, explained that I cannot control the the EBay sellers listing information, explained also that I *specifically* ordered these because they were listed as <1mW, and objected to my details being held on record for allegedly trying to "import illegal goods". Their email response was short and swift..."Your objection has been noted and should you wish to complain, contact..."{email address supplied}.

So, anyone who may wish to import even these piddly little lasers into good ol Oz can expect to receive similar treatment. Angry? You bet I'm angry. It appears I'm guilty of a crime of which I never intended to commit. The presumption of innocence until proven guilty went out the back door some time ago it seems.

Apologies for this rude intrusion but I thought I'd just pass this on in case it may be of interest to someone.

[MikeAusC]

Unfortunately rulemakers abusing their power is not uncommon these days.

Importing Laser Pointers is controlled - but importing Laser Modules without batteries is not !

And to further clarify that what is Legal should not be confused with what is Logical, here is an ad for a 50 mW and 200mW Laser modules that are being sold totally legally in Australia.
http://secure.oatleyelectronics.com/...roducts_id=580
http://secure.oatleyelectronics.com/...roducts_id=799

Note that if you are found in possession of a Laser Pointer you will be charged with being in possession of an illegal weapon - if you are a member of an accredited Astronomy club, you will be immune to this.

[MikeAusC]

. . . . So, anyone who may wish to import even these piddly little lasers into good ol Oz can expect to receive similar treatment. Angry? You bet I'm angry. It appears I'm guilty of a crime of which I never intended to commit. The presumption of innocence until proven guilty went out the back door some time ago it seems.

Apologies for this rude intrusion but I thought I'd just pass this on in case it may be of interest to someone.

Contact your Federal Minister. We will be subject to more and more police-state laws unless people let the government know that the lawmakers and law implementers are going too far.

What is the point in making something illegal to import if I can buy it legally in Australia !!!

[Norm]

Laws can be very confusing, before CB was legalised here Dick Smith began amassing his fortune by selling mail order CB radios, not illegal to sell or own just illegal to maintain and operate.
Norm

[MikeAusC]

In NSW there are no restrictions on big business selling knives as long as you're over 16 - but get caught in public carrying a knife without lawful excuse and you'll cop a $500 fine and a ten year criminal record.

[susanawalkly]

thank you dragonlasers, I am considering buying a laser now. Anyway, a low power laser 5mW is enough now.

[Horsewhisperer]

Any lasers that can be purchased for a reasonable price are not a real danger to pilots.... I've done the math, you know those new wicked lasers arctics? Those are harmless at any distance someone could get them near a plane. The fact is the whole "lasers crash planes" thing is the media looking for a story that will sell, and the australian media just loves taking a story and making it sound like a horror movie. Just because people do stupid things is not a justification to ban things. Do you know how many people are killed every year by stupid drivers? Do you know how many are killed by idiots with lasers? If you tried to make a ratio, you would run in to the problem of "divide by zero". And contacting the government won't do a thing, especially a nanny government like australia has. And those "attacks" on helicopters are nothing more than overblown stories about teenagers/idiots screwing around with low powered lasers. And I don't see how it's relevant in the slightest whether or not I have lived in australia... In fact, if anything my opinion is less subjective than an australian resident. My opinions are based on an extensive knowledge of lasers and the perspective granted by living in a place where there are at least a few people who refuse to be shafted by the government.

I respectfully disagree. The problem for pilots isn't just the flashing of the laser causing temporary blind spots, but also the extreme distraction that happens. This is especially dangerous when they are coming in for landing. A number of incidents have occured where a pilot had abort a landing or felt the landing was unsafe because of the distraction. Any aborted landing is considered serious by aviation authorities and with maybe hundreds of passengers depending on the pilot getting it right every time, there is no room for error.
Simply put, pointing lasers at other people isn't only dangerous, but illegal. Fines and jail can result if you do so in Australia (and many other countries as well) for any non lawful reason.

[stickydoorknob]

Just to let you know if yo wanted to compare, heres the law in thailand.


We dont care if you own one, buy or sell them. There are absolutely no concerns of laser pointers here. Just to let you know of how careless we are and to watch out when you come here during ur holidays, things that are harmful but not stated by law and Illegal weapons/objects are everywhere.

thats scary

[Lustywench]

I signed up just to clarify some things.
I'm an Australian.

I ordered an Aixiz 200mW Red on the 22nd June 2012, and recieved it in the mail, on about the 12th July 2012. From the Aixiz website not from eBay, if that makes any difference.
The package appeared to be unopened, un-tampered.

The laws specifically relate to *Handheld* Devices only.
http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page4372.asp
Bottom of page.

These objects are restricted for importation.
Laser Pointers: laser pointers; laser pens; laser sights for firearms or other weapons


These objects are not restricted for importation.
laser modules; laser diodes; laser lighting

It's not hard to make half a dozen solder spots and get the laser you want.
If you choose to make it into a prohibited weapon that's your decision.
Handheld (portable) lasers over 1 mW are prohibited weapons.
Lasers that require an external power source are not.

You may import any wattage diode you wish, any drivers, cases, lens...whatever.

The Law looks to be designed to keep your average knuckle dragger from obtaining a device that could cause injury.
It does not prevent those with a $5 soldering iron a $5 DMM and about 20 minutes free time building thier own.

Now if you'll excuse me I have things to set fire to.

Some other interesting tidbits.
Customs only scans 1 in 25 containers and a little over 50% of mail entering Australia. (source search for 'glock australia post germany')
Do with that what you will.

[Lila]

Hi I am Lila. I am very glad very glad to be a part of this platform. It is quite strange to know about laser pointers issues. Law should be imposed equally to public at large.

[blasterman]

The restrictive laws regarding these *high powered* lasers have always made me scratch my head a bit, because at least in the U.S. it seems more of a protection racket for domestic laser sellers than anything else. Obviously shining these things at aircraft should get any idiot cuffed and dropped in a hole, but U.S. laws, unless I'm reading them incorrectly, seem to cynically turn a cheek 'as long as you use an American laser'.

I have a 1watt blue pointer and a host of greens. Unless I'm cutting red plastic cups in half to impress 6th graders with my 1watt blue my ~50mW greens are more usefull. Mainly because I volunteer for several animal shelters and cats love the green ones. Now if I could find an inexpensive source of the rare 'click-on' type we'd be thrilled.

I've been refurbishing several inexpensive laser projectors, and replacing the cheap lasers that came with them with higher powered and better performing blues and reds. At least at present these remain legal for import, not that somebody could get into just as much trouble powering them off a 12volt cigarette lighter.

[M@elstrom]

Customs only scans 1 in 25 containers and a little over 50% of mail entering Australia. (source search for 'glock australia post germany')
Do with that what you will.

Enticing readers with such information (regardless of accuracy) is highly irresponsible, working with the 1:25 ratio your proposing (for arguments sake) doesn't equate to which item will be scanned/checked out of the postal grouping, there are many (and varied) factors involved with the decisive filtering options made by Customs Officers...

Obviously shining these things at aircraft should get any idiot cuffed and dropped in a hole

+1 Agreed

I've been refurbishing several inexpensive laser projectors, and replacing the cheap lasers that came with them with higher powered and better performing blues and reds. At least at present these remain legal for import, not that somebody could get into just as much trouble powering them off a 12volt cigarette lighter.

That's because the current legislation is geared towards general public access (at least here in OZ) not business users and related service repairs, this is why building implements with lasers are permissible (here) because they are part of a leveling device and so on... not to overlook the astronomical pursuit utilising lasers which is AFAIK covered by a general exemption providing mounting/usage conditions are adhered to.

[jklasers]

Yes, Laser Pointers are legal in Australia, but they have become more heavily regulated since mid-2008. The Australian Customs Service and most Australian State Governments toughened regulations on laser pointers due to the actions of a few idiots who were shining them at passenger aircraft.
Many people who I’ve spoken to seem to think that laser pointers have been banned in Australia. This is false.
To summarise the legal consensus, it is legal to buy laser pointers in Australia, provided that the emissions power is less than 1 miliwatt (1 mW) and that you have a reasonable excuse for owning one and having it in a public place.

I have been doing some reading and this is my understanding of the current situation as of October 2010: