Darell's EV1 (and/or EVs in general)

Darell\'s EV1 (and/or EVs in general)

OK, I'd like to start my own thread here for personal selfish reasons (I want to be notified when there are responses!)

It all started with Brock's thread here:Brock's Thread
So take a look to see how it began.

And there have been other threads that I have criminally hijacked: EV thread, Alt Fuels, Bush & H2, Price of Gas, Future Transportation, Hydrogen cars, Green electricity.

My current EV page (in progress): Darell's EV page

On November 27, 2001 I took delivery of a 1997 EV1 - currently the highest-performance "production" EV. There were fewer than 1000 made, and fewer are being driven today. My lease is for only two years, but they'll have to pry it from my cold, dead hands to get it back after that...

Re: Darell\'s EV1 (and/or EVs in general)

what's the chance you could pop the hoods and show us the motor?...too bad about crappy GM politics...just a reflection of the state of the rest of things...

Re: Darell\'s EV1 (and/or EVs in general)

Well, it would be easy enough to pop the hood and snap a shot... but it would be about the most boring picture you've seen a a while. *No user serviceable parts inside* if you know what I mean. What you can see of the motor is just a big, smooth, black blob. It is a monster though - 120kw AC induction motor. That'll blend some ice cubes.

Your best bet is to look here at the EV1 cut-away

Re: Darell\'s EV1 (and/or EVs in general)

Do you all really think GM will recall and crush them? It would be terrible if this one was stolen...and magically showed up in Darells EV museum 40~50 years from now.

Re: Darell\'s EV1 (and/or EVs in general)

Does it use an automatic transmission? I saw the gears in the cutaway and it got me to wondering. I sure wish someone made an electric car with all the "standard features" of a 4-door sedan. I am seriously looking at the Toyota hy-bred and VW Jetta TDI. The TDI runs on diesel and gets about 50mpg with the turbo direct inject 90HP. The Toyota just seems too small. I would really like a car the size (room) of the Jetta but all electric, a guy can dream can't he?

Re: Darell\'s EV1 (and/or EVs in general)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ken B:
Do you all really think GM will recall and crush them? It would be terrible if this one was stolen...and magically showed up in Darells EV museum 40~50 years from now.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, they've recalled them once. And at the time, nothing was mentioned about leasing them ever again. Then, due to various political pressures, they relented.

I'm actually still trying to figure out where the crushing rumor came from... but nobody, including GM, refutes it.

As for Darell's EV museum - there ARE a few EV1 unaccounted for from the first recall as far as I know. Hmmm.

Re: Darell\'s EV1 (and/or EVs in general)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brock:
Does it use an automatic transmission? I saw the gears in the cutaway and it got me to wondering.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No traditional transmission. Single gear ratio forward and reverse. Direct drive. You simply spin the motor forward or backwards depending on where you point the "gear selector." That is one of the beauties of the EV - NO gear shifts EVER. The gears you see are just for reduction. The modified Impact1 did 183mph in first (and only) gear!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
I sure wish someone made an electric car with all the "standard features" of a 4-door sedan.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can you wait until this summer? The Rav4 full-electric goes on sale this coming summer. The test vehicles have been fantastic.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
I am seriously looking at the Toyota hy-bred and VW Jetta TDI.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you can again wait until summer you'll be able to test-drive the new Civic Hybrid. It is an updated Insight in a Civic's body. Way more room, 4-doors, real trunk and room for four. Should do as well if not better than the current two-seater Insight. I own a 2001 Civic, and it is VERY roomy for it's exterior dimensions (much larger than our 1987 Accord was in all aspects - more power and better gas mileage too!)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I would really like a car the size (room) of the Jetta but all electric, a guy can dream can't he?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, a guy can. And I'm right there with you. It'll come. It would probably come faster with a different administration, but it'll come. I seriously can't imagine being without an EV now that I've had one for just a few weeks. It would be like losing all my Arc AAA's!

Re: Darell\'s EV1 (and/or EVs in general)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by papasan:
what's the chance you could pop the hoods and show us the motor<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, don't say I didn't warn you The EV1 Motor

While under the hood (This is the second time I've openened it) I noticed an official CA emissions sticker. It says that there are no adjustments to be made to the vehicle's emissions equipment. I guess that's legal-eze for "this car HAS no emissions equipment."

Re: Darell\'s EV1 (and/or EVs in general)

ur right, that *is* pretty boring =P...

Re: Darell\'s EV1 (and/or EVs in general)

Jeez. There I was trying to edit one of my posts in the "other" thread to remove some of the images. Took me three tries before I was bright enough to realize it was locked! Guess we're serious about stopping THAT thread.

I just got back from a spin around town with my daughter. One of the three chargers in town is constantly blocked by an Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) vehicle. And it is always the same damn car every day during business hours. Sure, there is a huge blue sign that says "Electric Vehicles Only", but there is no law in Davis to prevent anybody from disregarding the signs. Sigh. There are two chargers there that probably cost us taxpayers about $12,000 to install (not to mention the cost of that nice sign), and nobody can use the chargers all day long. Nice use of funds.

I think the rudest part is that the ICE that blocks the chargers is the biggest frigging 4wd, monster-cab pickup that you've ever seen. I would have felt a teenie bit better if it was blocked by something that got better than 8mpg at least.

Re: Darell\'s EV1 (and/or EVs in general)

Brock -

Go here: Rav4 EV reservation

Re: Darell\'s EV1 (and/or EVs in general)

I will go take a look at it. We have parking spot here at work that are marked very well and people regular park in them. I have parked my car behind the car in my spot on more then one occasion. It is always nice when they come in and ask if who ever parked them in can move out of the way and then my boss says, "he's busy but he will be out in about an hour, oh didn't you see the sign on each spot that says NO PARKING AT ANY TIME without permit?"

I just looked at the RAV4 site. It is only available in CA again. We never get any good cars here in WI.

Re: Darell\'s EV1 (and/or EVs in general)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brock:

I just looked at the RAV4 site. It is only available in CA again. We never get any good cars here in WI.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh crap. I forgot - some people don't live in CA. Sorry about that. Well, us pioneers out here in the West will get all the kinks ironed out for you...

Re: Darell\'s EV1 (and/or EVs in general)

I looked at the RAV 4 site too, but came back here to remind us that these cars aren't really the "zero emission vehicles" Toyota claims they are..unless of course the electricity you fill them with comes from a purely solar source, (which also includes moving water), if the electricity comes from burning coal PopSci. says in the latest ish, that the EV1 creates more pollution than a 30 (?I'll check this # later) mpg ICE..still it's a neat car, but how about hydro-electric charger stations only? right.

Re: Darell\'s EV1 (and/or EVs in general)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ted the Led:
...but came back here to remind us that these cars aren't really the "zero emission vehicles" Toyota claims they are..unless of course the electricity you fill them with comes from a purely solar source

...PopSci. says in the latest ish, that the EV1 creates more pollution than a 30 (?I'll check this # later) mpg ICE...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oooh! This kind of misinformation really ICE's me! I get all shaky when I think about it, since this simply IS NOT TRUE. And there are so many reasons why it isn't true that it makes my head spin. I won't go into all the reasons right here, but I will let you in on one very small secret that should squash these rumors:

Let's assume that the average ICE car goes 25 miles on a gallon of gas. Well, that gallon of gas took enough electricity to produce, transport and deliver to power my EV1 at least 25 miles. So, after driving your ICE car 25 miles, you have consumed 25 miles worth of EV1 "fuel" AND you have polluted with your gallon of gas. There is simply no freaking way that an EV1 can ever pollute as much as ANY ICE, and that includes hybrids.

Then add these facts (trying desperately to keep the list brief):

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>1. Here in CA, we have the cleanest electricity in the country.
2. My EV1 is powered by 100% renewable energy sources (I purchase it that way).
3. EVs are typically charged at night with otherwise "wasted" electricity - which means they don't add anything to the pollution equation.
4. EVs charged at night typically make power generators more efficient by keeping the load more constant at the low peak times - therefor actually decreasing the pollution caused by the generators.
5. There are many 100% solar charging stations in CA - a new one goes in this year in my neighboring town. Enough solar power to power City hall, and 25 EV chargers.
6. ICE cars always pollute while EVs, as you can see, can be made to be completely ZEV.
[/list]

My list is damn-near endless, so if you'd like to hear more, don't be shy to ask (just know that I won't be around a computer for several days). There are several things to criticize about EVs. The pollution they generate is NOT one of them. Not by a long shot. Having to argue this point daily has gotten to be like sticking needles in my eye. How can the general public be so bent on wanting to believe that EVs pollute so much? To the point of not even questioning what the mainstream media prints about it...

Please, please, please don't "remind" us of something that is not true. Of course, I'm most angry at Popular Science for reporting on half truths - but then I'm used to hearing this stuff every day. It has become the most popular public sentiment - EVs just put the same amount of pollution somewhere else. Well, nation-wide, charging an EV will create about 3% of the pollution of an average ICE car. In CA, that figure is closer to 1% (due to our cleaner electricity generators using natural gas, solar, hydro, geothermal, wind). And remember - we don't change oil every few thousand miles, we don't release raw benzene to the atmosphere when we fill the tank, we don't drip oil on the roads.... ah, forget it... the list is just too damn long.

OK, don't have any more time (lucky you!) so I'll gingerly step back off my box.

Thanks for letting me run off at the keyboard (but I did warn you in my sig that I'm passionate about my EV1). Guess you won't be questioning THAT anymore, huh?

Re: Darell\'s EV1 (and/or EVs in general)

Darell,
no, by all means, enlighten me/us! But needles in your eyes?! Sorry! I guess whoever said the truth hurts was right, for both the giving and getting...But, your argument sounds very reasonable, and your points are valid and new to me, so keep up the good fight! There are ears to hear.
I went and got hte PopSci. ish referred to and print the entire lettter and reply by the editor for any further comments you may have, for 2001 or '02
from Popular Science January 2002:
"...According to my calculations, the City electric car produces the same amount of carbon dioxide emissions as an SUV. Recharging the City car after 35 miles uses 22kWh, which produces more carbon emissions than a 13-mpg SUV. If the electricity is generated by natural gas, carbon emissions are equivalent to a 25-mpg SUV. Steve Schroeder,College Sation, Texas..." (hope I'm allowed to quote all this-?-TTL)
Ed. reply:You're right: Despite their reputation, electric cars are almost never as fuel efficient as gasoline cars.The reason is that the energy consumed by a car is a function of the mass multiplied by acceleration; electric cars have heavy batteries, and hence they almost always consume more energy than an equivalent gas car. On the emission side, if the electricity powering the car came from a coal burning plant, it can mean that the car is responsible for higher total emission levels than a gasoline powered car. Don't forget about other sources of electricity, however: If you use hydro-electric power to drive your electric car, the root source of energy is the sun itself; and the process is then emission free..."

So I guess there is a vast sea of BS, (as George Harrison used to say ) awaiting all those seeking the EV truth, provided in part no doubt by those special people with a few sheckles invested in the petro-chemical industry, mm? Thanks for the info Darell.
Here's wishing you a happy new year, and low cranial rpms, (unless you want them! )

Re: Darell\'s EV1 (and/or EVs in general)

OW! There go my eyes again!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ted the Led:
from Popular Science January 2002:

You're right: Despite their reputation, electric cars are almost never as fuel efficient as gasoline cars.The reason is that the energy consumed by a car is a function of the mass multiplied by acceleration; electric cars have heavy batteries, and hence they almost always consume more energy than an equivalent gas car.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for keeping an open mind Ted! The more you learn, the more you'll realize what a load of bull we're all being fed. It is the ignorance of the auto industry that is trying to stop EVs from being produced, but Big Oil has a hand in just about everything we Americans try to do. I don't want to, but I just can't help responding again - I MUST get my hands on that issue.

How they can be so wrong is totally beyond me. Here are a few facts to ponder after reading the quote above:

My EV1 holds the equivalent energy of less than 1.5 gallons of gasoline in its batteries. On that amount of energy, I can travel about 80 miles. 80 high-performance miles. Show me the ICE that does that! The reason I can travel that far? Well, something like 70% of the battery energy is converted into propulsion energy in my car. In an ICE, about 20% of the gasoline is converted into propulsion energy. So where exactly is an EV less efficient? An ICE wastest energy in the form of sound, heat, unburt fuel, etc. Spinning an electric motor is FAR more efficient

And again, that quote ignores the fact that it takes tons of electricity to produce and deliver gasoline. Almost nobody considers that fact when they make this argument. I did a rough calculation a few weeks ago. If every gasoline station in CA were shut down, the energy savings (just at the station, mind you) would power 100,000 EVs travelling about 40 miles per day. So just shutting off the gasoline stations would provide 4 million EV miles each day for free - both money and pollution free (considering this electricity was going to be used anyway).

Oooh. My eyes!

I don't suppose you could scan that article for me, could you?

Re: Darell\'s EV1 (and/or EVs in general)

Darell I just read that PopSci today at work and literally screamed. It drives me nuts to think anyone can think that an ICE (internal combustion engine) is cleaner then any and I mean ANY power plant, be it nuke, coal, whatever. If ICE engines were so great we would have ICE peaker units, and guess what we don't. ICE's are about 100% more pollutant and about 50 times more inefficient then central power plants. Man oh Man... What's a guy to do.

On a lighter note, is there more detailed info on the Rav4? I looked around that site and didn't find any good info, like size of motor, maybe 2WD with 2 motors? Battery size? I like the size, but would still prefer a mid to full sized all E vehicle.

Re: Darell\'s EV1 (and/or EVs in general)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brock:
Darell I just read that PopSci today at work and literally screamed.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm really glad Ted pointed out that letter and response, or I would have missed it for sure. I'm STILL screaming. I've forwarded it on to my EV1 listserver. Should get some interesting responses.

Yes, even if all or our power plants were run with gasoline, they'd STILL be far more efficient and cleaner than an ICE. Power plants can operate at peak-efficiency RPM and temp, and can be cleaned with huge heavy scrubbers that are impossible to incorporate on a car. An ICE on the other hand is started cold, run an all kinds of inefficient RPMs and has a relatively crude system for scrubbing the baddies out of the exhaust. Grrr.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> On a lighter note, is there more detailed info on the Rav4? I looked around that site and didn't find any good info, like size of motor, maybe 2WD with 2 motors? Battery size? I like the size, but would still prefer a mid to full sized all E vehicle.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are some rare brochures for the Rav4 floating around. I'll see if I can get my hands on one for you. There is nothing on the site of any relevance. All I know is that it has advanced NiMH batteries that should be good for 80-100 miles of real-world performance. If the thing were at all aerodynamic, it would, of course, do much better.

Re: Darell\'s EV1 (and/or EVs in general)

Brock - here is a good spot for some Rav4 EV info. Be sure to read the last paragraph where the Toyota guy says, in 1998, that the current EV technology will be outdated immediately. Of course, this is the SAME car that will be for sale this summer, four years later.

And here is a quick Rav EV review