Cree XR-E in Fenix L1/2T (vs. UWAJ, stock)

UnknownVT

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
3,671
Part 1 -

I have to hand a Cree XE-E mod in a Fenix L1/2T head with McR-18 reflector to review (Very Important note - this is NOT available for purchase, I know how much work and modification is involved to get a Cree XR-E to fit in a L1/2T head with proper heat sinking, some pretty clever stuff going on.....).

I am very, very grateful to 4sevens (http://Fenix-store.com) for his generosity for the loan of this, along with a UWAJ LuxIII mod L1/2T head also with McR-18 reflector, CR123 bodies and spare L1T and L2T bodies.

So 3 different L1/2T heads with 3 different bodies - a combination of 9 flashlights - since the L1/2T heads are capable of 2 levels - that's 18 combinations - and that's not even counting use of different battery types....
enough with the excuses!
biggrin.gif


Simply because of the verastility of the L1T/L2T head - this Cree XR-E mod can be seen as possibly a "preview" of the Fenix P1D-CE (when using CR123A and RCR123), Fenix L1D-CE (when using 1x AA alkaline and NiMH), and possibly the future "L2D-CE"(?) (when using 2x AA alkaline and NiMH).
Please see the Index at the bottom of this post for the continuing parts of this comparison review.

In this part of the review I am going to look at what I consider driving the Cree XR-E to its potential - ie: using a 3.7V Li-Ion Rechargeable RCR123 battery - so that means the L1/2T heads are on CR123 bodies.

Size -
CreeL1Tsz.jpg


Heads -
CreeL1Thds.jpg

notice the orange-peel/reticulated reflectors in the Cree XR-E and UWAJ mods - also that the central hole had to be enlarged to accomodate the Cree.

Quick word about the CR123 bodies for the Fenix "T"-series - the current ones would fit all the primary CR123A I tried, although some seemed snug. With 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable RCR123 - I found I had some Unprotected that were too fat to fit, and suspected that Protect RCR123 would probably be too fat to fit.

This seems to have been addressed by a new Mk 2 sample/prototype 4sevens loaned me - it is just preceptibly thinnner walled (even more precision) and will take a (fatter) Battery Station Protected RCR123 - which defintitely will not fit the earlier version.

(EDIT: Important note - I have been told this "Mk.2" body is NOT available for purchase - and only 1 or 2 were made)

CR123bodyTubesY.jpg
CR123bodyBatts.jpg


OK, ok - what's the Cree XR-E like?

Well hopefully you remember what I thought of the L1T on a 3.7V Li-Ion Rechargeble?

Fenix L1T on 3.7V Li-Ion - Whoa!

I thought it was spectacularly bright......

Well this is the L1T on a Cree XR-E
vs. Stock L1/2T both on 3.7V Li-Ion on High
RCree_Stock.jpg
RCree_Stock2U.jpg

holy cr*p! that is bright compared to what I used to consider "spectacular"!

How about a great LuxIII like a U-bin?
vs. UWAJ (also McR-18 reflector) both on 3.7V Li-Ion on High
RCree_UWAJ.jpg
RCree_UWAJ2U.jpg

er - the Cree is definitely brighter.

But is the U-bin brighter than the stock T-bin?
you betcha! both on 3.7V Li-Ion on High -
R_UWAJ_Stock.jpg
R_UWAJ_Stock2U.jpg


So all this is pretty seriously bright company -

How about Cree on Li-Ion vs. stock lights on alkalines?

vs. Fenix L1T on High, alkaline -
RCree_L1T.jpg
RCree_L1T2U.jpg

this Fenix L1T is my at home EDC using a NiMH battery - it is STOMPED by the Cree on Li-Ion.... actually I would have been disappointed if it wasn't.

vs. Fenix L2T on High, alkalines -
RCree_L2T.jpg
RCree_L2T2U.jpg

yes, on 2AA alkalines the stock T-bin does fair a bit better - but bascially it is still spanked by the Cree on Li-Ion......

I know I am going to have to do more comparisons with different batteries and different bodies -
but I think this is enough for now -

Hopefully I have managed to show some of the potential of the Cree XR-E -
and that the L1/2T makes a great host for it.......

EDIT to ADD -
I thought I should use a "control"/reference flashlight for comparison of all these combinations. I've chosen the popular Fenix P1 using a regular primary CR123A (NON-rechargeable) -
hopefully this gives a consistent output so I can compare this with the variations of battery combination of this Cree XR-E mod L1/2T -

Control Reference comparison -
vs. Fenix P1 on Primary CR123A
RCree_P1.jpg
RCree_P1U2.jpg

The Cree XR-E on 3.7V Li-Ion is obviously brighter than the Fenix P1 on non-rechargeable Primary CR123A - this is not meant to be a direct comparison with the Fenix P1 but a "Control" comparison.

EDIT to ADD -

Current draw readings from Cree XR-E mod L1/2T head-
......... 750mAh ... 800mAh ... Batt Sta
......... Unprot ..... Unprot .... Protected
High ... 0.59A ...... 0.58A ..... 0.58A
Low ... 0.40A ...... 0.40A ..... 0.42A

these are similar but perhaps a shade lower than the current readings from the stock Fenix L1T on 3.7V Li-Ion Unprotected 14500 rechargeable.

Current draw readings from Stock Fenix L1T head using same RCR123 batteries -
......... 750mAh ... 800mAh ... Batt Sta
......... Unprot ..... Unprot .... Protected
High ... 0.48A ...... 0.50A ..... 0.50A
Low ... 0.46A ...... 0.40A ..... 0.42A

Ah! I think I got it..... the higher current draw readings from the Cree here are because the LEDs in both cases on High are basically in direct-drive -
I think the Cree may have a lower Vf - so when presented with the same source, the voltage difference is bigger - hence the more power (therefore current) it can draw.
Whereas on the Low mode the circuit may contribute to the current limiting....
however I am at a loss to explain that high reading on the Low setting for the stock L1T using the 750mAh Unprotected RCR123......

INDEX to continuing parts of this comparison review -

Part 2 - using 1x NiMH AA battery (L1D-CE preview?) - Post #15
Part 3 - using the common 1x Alkaline AA (L1D-CE preview?) - Post #23
Part 4 - using Primary CR123A (3.0V Non-rechargeable) lithium - post #42
Part 5 - using 2x AA alkaline ("L2D-CE" preview?) - post #54
Part 6 - using 2x AA NiMH ("L2D-CE" preview?) - post #55

Outdoors beamshots and direct comparison with P1D-CE - post #50
Indoors beamshots compared with P1D-CE - post #51
 
Last edited:

Edwood

Enlightened
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
994
Location
SoCal
You got a protected RCR123 to fit in the MK2 CR123 body?

I could not get my protected RCR123 (not Battery Station) to fit. Not by a long shot.

-Ed
 

UnknownVT

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
3,671
Edwood wrote: "You got a protected RCR123 to fit in the MK2 CR123 body?
I could not get my protected RCR123 (not Battery Station) to fit. Not by a long shot."

Just for clarity - I am only talking about the CR123 bodies for the "T"-series - ie: they have bare alumimum threads at the head.

(Note: The "original" CR123 body for the L2P does not have bare threads and does not work properly with the L1/2T)

So what I call Mk.2 is a new (not in production & NOT for purchase - only 1 or 2 were made) CR123 body with even thinner walls than the "T"-series CR123 body with bare threads, and as you see in the photo, will fit the Battery Station Protected RCR123 - whereas the very slightly earlier production sample also for the "T"-series (with bare threads) will NOT fit - like yours - by "a long shot".

Sorry to sound wordy and pedantic -
but I want to be sure not to confuse by my use of "Mk.2"
 
Last edited:

chevrofreak

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
May 10, 2004
Messages
2,543
Location
Billings, Montana, USA
He sent me an XR-E McR18 modded LxT head as well, and the output numbers I get from my home built integrating sphere are:

Fenix LxT XR-E - CR123a - high 1203 (estimated 85.93 lumens)
Fenix LxT XR-E - CR123a - low 212 (estimated 15.14 lumens)
Fenix LxT XR-E - 800mAh unprotected RCR123a - high 1947 (estimated 139.07 lumens)

stock was

Fenix LxT - CR123a - high 630 (estimated 45 lumens)
Fenix LxT - CR123a - low 132 (estimated 9.43 lumens)
Fenix LxT - 800mAh unprotected RCR123a - high 1050 (estimated 75 lumens)


The beam is surprisingly nearly perfect considering that it is from a reflector intended for a Luxeon. I feel like a little schoolboy with a crush, and her name is XR-E.
 

cheapo

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 5, 2005
Messages
3,326
ok, that is awsome! 140 lumens, 2 stages, clicky... someone must make it.

-David
 

UnknownVT

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
3,671
sflate wrote: "Do you happen to know the bin and/or tint of the Cree?"

I had to ask -

It's a P3 WC
 

Ikonomi

Enlightened
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
201
Location
Houston.TX.USA
So how does the FeniXR-E do on standard AAs? Like NiMH? Awesome comparison. :)

I think this is the second throwy Cree I have seen (not counting NewBie's aspherical lens :D).
 

UnknownVT

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
3,671
Ikonomi wrote: "So how does the FeniXR-E do on standard AAs? Like NiMH?"

Are you reading my mind -
or writing my script? ;)

The opening post is only Part 1 of this review -
my next comparison is going to be a single AA NiMH -
ie: going from the extreme highest end of 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable
(where the circuit is effectively by-passed and the light is in direct-drive)
to the extreme lowest commonly available voltage of a single AA NiMH at 1.2V.

So please stay tuned.......
 
Last edited:

Badbeams3

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 28, 2000
Messages
4,389
Still tuned...can`t wait to see what she does with a single AA 1.2 volt rechargable batt.
 

BentHeadTX

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 29, 2002
Messages
3,892
Location
A very strange dark place
Badbeams said:
Still tuned...can`t wait to see what she does with a single AA 1.2 volt rechargable batt.

Same here, I want to see what a Cree equipped L1T will do. If (when) Fenix rolls out the Cree version, we will all know how it performs with NiMH. Thanks! :rock:
 

UnknownVT

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
3,671
Part 2 -

on 1x NiMH AA rechargeable battery -

vs. Stock Fenix L1T both on 1x NiMH AA, High
NCree_Stock.jpg
NCree_Stock2U.jpg

er-hum, the Cree XR-E is definitely brighter even when driven by the lowest (commonly available) extreme of a single NiMH AA at a nominal 1.2V - this is pretty impressive (....that's because I know something at this point, that you don't yet
tongue.gif
)

vs. UWAJ mod L1/2T both on NiMH AA, High
NCree_UWAJ.jpg
NCree_UWAJ2U.jpg

the Cree XR-E is noticably brighter - even when compared to possibly the "best" LuxIII for this application and on the lowest end of a driving source this Cree XR-E struts its stuff.

Control Reference Comparison -
Cree XR-E L1T with 1x NiMH AA vs. Fenix P1 on primary CR123A
NCree_P1.jpg
NCree_P1U2.jpg

I would say that this is pretty amazing
the Cree XR-E mod L1T on a single NiMH AA @ 1.2V is brighter than a Fenix P1 on a Primary Lithium CR123A

I think people should be getting excited about a possible 1AA Fenix using a Cree XR-E

EDIT to ADD -
Comparison at Low level -

vs. Stock Fenix L1T both on 1x NiMH AA, Low
NLCree_Stock.jpg
NLCree_Stock2U.jpg

even when both are on Low the Cree is still noticably brighter -
this may not be such a good thing - as most people would like a dimmer low.
However, bear in mind this L1/2T circuit was not designed for a Cree XR-E -
and there are two ways of looking at this -
either we get pretty good brightness for about 10 hours of runtime (like the stock version) on low -
or a properly designed circuit would give us a lower output at even longer runtime -
think about the region of ~20 hours for a reasonable low output level at 1/2 this brightness?......

vs. UWAJ mod L1/2T both on 1x NiMH AA, Low -
NLCree_UWAJ.jpg
NLCree_UWAJ2U.jpg

Cree is brighter even on this low level compared to the current "best" LuxIII a U-bin.

Control Reference Comparison -
Cree XR-E L1T with 1x NiMH AA on Low vs. Fenix P1 on primary CR123A
NLCree_P1.jpg
NLCree_P1U2.jpg

obviously noty as bright on Low - but it is not left that far behind a Fenix P1 on primary lithium CR123A - that's pretty amazing considering at this "low" level the Cree mod L1T should be getting about ~10 hours regulated runtime......


EDIT to ADD -
Current draw readings -
Cree XR-E mod L1/2T head on 1x NiMH AA battery
High ... 0.79A
Low .... 0.25A

compared to Stock L1T using the same NiMH battery
High ... 0.79A
Low .... 0.24A

Close enough to be "identical" - this is so because the current draw from the battery is determined by the circuit.
 
Last edited:

AlexGT

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 15, 2001
Messages
3,651
Location
Houston, Texas
Now if you would post the instructions on what you did for the brave souls who might wanna try it too?

Thanks
AlexGT
 

UnknownVT

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
3,671
AlexGT wrote: "Now if you would post the instructions on what you did for the brave souls who might wanna try it too?"

I did NOTHING :p :D

...as stated in my first post - this is a loaner.

So I did NOT do the mod -
although I do have some idea of how much work went into it.

The Cree XR-E is not a simple direct replacement fit to a Luxeon, so some "surgery" is required to fit.

As can be seen in the photo of the heads - the reflector (McR-18 - designed for the Luxeon) has to have its hole widened to fit the Cree.

I know that some heat sinking mod had to be done also.

Sorry I can't give any more details, as I just don't know.
 

tazambo

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
151
Location
Tasmania, Australia
Great beam shots, UnknownVT.

I want an LxT head with cree and a RCR123 body.
I prefer a clickie over a twistie.

I don't need the fancy stuff in the P1D, just 2 levels and a clickie.
This needs to be a stock light, none of this having to spend an extra $15-20 for the 123 body. But thanks for building it, Nekomane.

Come on fenix.
 

EngrPaul

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 28, 2006
Messages
3,678
Location
PA
Are the POST #15 beamshots accurate for the L1P-XRE mod that became available at Fenix-Store today?
 
Top