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Thread: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

  1. #91

    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    UPDATE...

    My MN15 lamp arrived & it is working perfectly! I love the output / runtime of the M6 now. This is exactly what I have been hoping for since I first bought my M6. Guilt free lumens for all!

    Thanks for the great find JS !

  2. #92

    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    This thread is very compelling. I just purchased an M6 to use with an MN15.

    It should be here soon...
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  3. #93

    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    I bought one off eBay and got the MN15 bulb from Surefire. Been playing with it for 24 hours and taking it camping this weekend. This combination makes me reevaluate my interest in LED lights. My other incandescent lights are the A2 (based on the js writeup here) and M3. But this M6 setup is one of the best ideas I have seen anywhere. Thanks. sc
    Last edited by sierracharlie; 05-02-2007 at 08:57 PM.

  4. #94
    Moderator js's Avatar
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    kaseri and sierracharlie,

    I'm thrilled that you guys also like the SF M6 w/ X-LOLA! And I appreciate you both posting about your positive impressions and experiences.

    Silversurfer,

    I hope you like your M6, with and without the MN15 X-LOLA! Keep us informed!
    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

  5. #95
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    This may be a little OT, and I appologise, but I just want to say how much I like my M6, no matter which batteries, and which Lamp Assembly. It is an incredible tool, and even with dead batteries it is impressive. OK OT over, I just needed to say something positive and get away from the nonesense elsewhere. Venting over!
    Last edited by MikeF; 05-03-2007 at 01:32 PM. Reason: Minor tweaking for content

  6. #96

    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    Interim report: Two nights camping. Total usage over an hour. But after this time, it looks like I have just dropped in new batteries. This set up is a little more bulky and more expensive than most people want or need, but next even to a good LED light, it is just absolutely dominant in the outdoors.

  7. #97
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    Hmm this is totally odd. I get over two hours and the numbers are there also. I suggest doing another test run the setup goes for over two hours. It is actually one of the most economical ways to get that many lumens for longer out of an incandescent on primaries that is.

  8. #98
    Moderator js's Avatar
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    LED61, I think sierracharlie is saying that he used the light for over an hour and it still looked like he was running on fresh batteries, not that he needed to replace the cells after an hour.

    sc, is that right?
    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

  9. #99
    Enlightened adamr999's Avatar
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    This website is the devil. I come here to read about new products without the intention of purchase, but I always do. Now thanks to this post I will have to buy a M6.

  10. #100
    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    the X-LOLA setup looks to be a great way to get the most out of CR123 primaries.

    drain rate is about 0.55A on each cell. so when using good cells, capacity should be as high as about 1.6AH. Wouldn't surprise me if the X-LOLA would run for 3 hours.

    with good quality cells, after voltage sag,, 2.7V per cell, instead of the usual 1-1.2A drain that these cells would experience dipping the voltage to ~2.5V.

    I come up with the following:
    MN15 in "normal" setup (M3T): ~8.3W, 200 B-Lu ~3275K, ~130 Torch lumen
    MN15 in M6 "X LOLA" setup: ~9.2W, 250B-Lu ~3350K, ~160 Torch Lumen
    bulb life is cut approximately in half. So, 25 hours, assuming that SFs is still rating these "50 hour" bulbs.. In my experience, a decently white 160 torch lumens is plenty for 90% of outdoors activities.

    Nice!

    this sound bout right to the bulb experts?

  11. #101
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    Quote Originally Posted by js
    LED61, I think sierracharlie is saying that he used the light for over an hour and it still looked like he was running on fresh batteries, not that he needed to replace the cells after an hour.

    sc, is that right?
    Ah JS, I now get the picture fully. I think you are correct and my apologies, as I now think I am totally wrong in my apprecciation of SC's post. OK!! + 1 I'm so glad.

  12. #102
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    Quote Originally Posted by mdocod
    the X-LOLA setup looks to be a great way to get the most out of CR123 primaries.

    drain rate is about 0.55A on each cell. so when using good cells, capacity should be as high as about 1.6AH. Wouldn't surprise me if the X-LOLA would run for 3 hours.

    with good quality cells, after voltage sag,, 2.7V per cell, instead of the usual 1-1.2A drain that these cells would experience dipping the voltage to ~2.5V.

    I come up with the following:
    MN15 in "normal" setup (M3T): ~8.3W, 200 B-Lu ~3275K, ~130 Torch lumen
    MN15 in M6 "X LOLA" setup: ~9.2W, 250B-Lu ~3350K, ~160 Torch Lumen
    bulb life is cut approximately in half. So, 25 hours, assuming that SFs is still rating these "50 hour" bulbs.. In my experience, a decently white 160 torch lumens is plenty for 90% of outdoors activities.

    Nice!

    this sound bout right to the bulb experts?
    mdocod,

    I estimated 200 torch lumens by comparing with the SF A2 (75 lumens) and the TL Gen4 LA (275 lumens); my reasoning is somewhere in one of the posts in this thread, and while 3 hours of runtime would have been way cool, I only got 2.5 hours of runtime to 50 percent of starting output.

    As for lamp life, the CCT of the MN15 in the M6 is just about the same as the CCT of the A2 lamp, which is 3330 K (as you predicted!). This should equate to about 35 hours of life, I would think, but it could be less. Certainly at least 25 hours in my opinion.
    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

  13. #103

    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    Received the MN15 bulb today.

    Gonna try it out when the sun goes down...

    Initial Observations :

    Cuts right through ambient urban light...

    Gonna try using the light in the next few nights to follow my vizlas when I let them run free in the park late at night...

    Note to self: Be careful not to blind vizslas.
    Last edited by Silversurfer; 05-08-2007 at 02:07 AM.
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  14. #104
    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    I'm guessing the reason that you aren't getting 3 hours, is that when you combine that many cells, the likelihood of having an under-performer that ruins it for the whole bunch is pretty high. There's also a lot of variation in capacity from one brand of cell to the next at a ~0.55A load. Sanyos deliver about 1.7AH at this rate, while Titanium cells are delivering like 1.3AH, BS cells about 1.45AH, SF cells about 1.55AH... So anyone using this configuration would do themselves a great favor by looking at the results of SilverFox's 123 shootout. The 0.5A comparison is really close to the way the cell would be used in this setup. So even if a cell costed $1.50 instead of $1.00, in some cases, it might makeup for the cost difference in runtime.

    200 lumen may be pretty accurate... the calculations used for rerating this stuff from "a-far" are really only good for ballpark figures. I can adjust a possible variable, and come up with 135 and 180 T-Lumens just as easily. (different exponent in formula, different initial bulb specs, etc) It's guesswork backed up with formulas that keep things "in-line."
    Last edited by mdocod; 05-07-2007 at 05:37 PM.

  15. #105
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    mdocod,

    I've spent a lot of time looking at all of SilverFox's shootouts, and talking with him on the phone. My tests were done using fresh Duracell Ultra 123A cells. As I understand it, these are the best 123 cells made, to the highest quality and consistency, with the best performance. I paid over $2 each for them, IIRC.

    So, I don't think that I'm not getting 3 hours for the reasons you mention. In fact, my back of the envelope estimate was 2 hours, so 2.5 hours was actually better than I had expected.
    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

  16. #106

    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    What I said was:

    "But after this time, it looks like I have just dropped in new batteries."

    What I meant was:

    "But after this time, it continues to run like the batteries are still new."

    Sorry for the confusion.

    That is, I can tell no appreciable reduction in the light after an hour. Had I been using either of the stock bulbs, I would need to change batteries after a weekend in the woods. The MN15 setup is till going strong. This setup might be eating up the bulb instead of the battteries, but it will take a lot of run time to figure that out and I may not care by then.

    I repeat, this is the coolest, simplest, most beneficial SF mod I have ever seen. SF should sell this as an option on the light, if the bulb lasts up to their standards.

    sc

  17. #107
    Flashaholic* batman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    js,


    how do you feel about the new lumens factory lamp assemblies for the M3T, M3, and M4? Would any of them run in the M6? There is a thread here somewhere recently with all the technical information on them such as amps,volts, etc, and other science facts.
    It isn't the life that matters, it's the courage you put into it.

  18. #108
    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    The M3T lamps will probably work without a hitch. You'll definitely have more options to play with... Your inquiry is proof to LF that there is interest in M6 lamps. I'm trying to convince them that a range of 13V M series lamps would be big sellers. Like, for use in the M6 on 6 RCR123s. or in a 3x18650 leef, or 3x18500 leefbody, or 3x17670 custom fitted into an M6, or 6x17500 in an M6 without the need for a regulator. (3 series, 2 P), or 3x17670 in an M4+2 extenders, lol... you get the idea.

  19. #109
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    I would love to discuss this but I really think we should start another thread for it. It is likely to drag on very far off topic.

  20. #110
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    batman,

    I'm actually probably going to get my hands on some very soon! But right now, regretably, I am totally ignorant regarding these lamps. They sound wicked cool, though. I love that they give us all more options, especailly the Li-ion use option. Way cool. Just as long as everyone understand the dangers of Li-ion and uses them properly. When I get my hands on some, I may post about them in this thread, or in another thread, whichever is most appropriate. I'm slow to get new stuff, though, so it may not happen right away.

    mdocod,

    YES! PLEASE tell them to make those lamps! Maybe you could post to the another M6-R with MN61 thread about this as well? No problem with discussion of it, here though, but LED61 is right that it is better suited to this other thread. Either way (or both) is fine.
    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

  21. #111
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    Just thought I would add this I was playing with my M6 tonight and put fresh cells in it and fired it up with the MN15 and toasted the bulb. So be careful with the MN15 and fresh cells.

  22. #112

    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    Quote Originally Posted by tussery
    Just thought I would add this I was playing with my M6 tonight and put fresh cells in it and fired it up with the MN15 and toasted the bulb. So be careful with the MN15 and fresh cells.
    What brand cells?

  23. #113
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    Quote Originally Posted by tussery
    Just thought I would add this I was playing with my M6 tonight and put fresh cells in it and fired it up with the MN15 and toasted the bulb. So be careful with the MN15 and fresh cells.
    This isn't the fault of the setup. The MN15 isn't driven anywhere near hard enough to instaflash. You'd have to crank up the voltage significantly higher than what the MB20 provides to start risking instaflash due to the setup itself. That is, on a regular, statistically significant basis.

    That said, any setup can instaflash no matter how underdriven. When a lamp dies, it dies at startup.

    So, if your MN15 was quite new, get SureFire to warrantee it. If it was fairly well used, then it was just its time. If in between, that sucks, and should be noted for the record so we can keep track of it.

    But, honestly, I am quite familiar with highly overdriven lamps, and their CCT (i.e. "whiteness") and this setup ain't anywhere near the instaflash territory. We are pushing it harder in this configuration, but it is somewhat underdriven in the standard setup (with just a single stack of 123's), and the voltage isn't much higher in any case.

    Sorry this happened. Definitely look into getting a replacement if it was a fairly new lamp.
    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

  24. #114
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    Are there any other SF/LA "X-Lola" combinations out there? I like the concept, but don't have the cash to get the M6. I hope this isn't too OT, but it seemed like the right thread to ask.
    "Et lux in tenebris lucet"

  25. #115
    Moderator js's Avatar
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    KeyGrip,

    There is a low output LA for the E2e that runs for 2.5 hours and is nice and white. MN02, IIRC.
    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

  26. #116
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    Jim, guys, I have some sad news to report. My MN15 was working fine and dandy when all of a sudden I noticed a fast decay in output. My immediate thought was that the batteries were going caput, but no. Instead I found my X-LOLA smoked inside the turbohead. The lamp was bought new and had about 7 or 8 hours in it. I've included a lousy pic of the bulb and sorry its really bad I have a real hard time getting sharp focused closeups, but, it illustrates more or less how the bulb is inside. This is more or less how Wquiles 7.5V regulated pack left the MN21 after about 5 hours runtime in it.

    I'll certainly use my other MN15 and will watch what happens as use goes by. BTW, these were not fresh 123's, they were approx midlife I estimate.


  27. #117
    Moderator js's Avatar
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    LED61,

    Wow. That's no fun! Sorry this happened to you.

    Given the color of the bulb, it's apparent that the envelope was compromised and allowed oxygen to enter. This is very rare that it happens this way, after working fine for a number of hours. Usually, it happens within the first half hour of running.

    Overdriving lamps does slightly increase such events due to the higher operating pressure.

    However, note that if we were really overdriving the MN15 hard, what we'd start seeing is a lot of people instaflashing their lamps at turn on. That is, you grab your M6 with X-LOLA, turn on, get a very brief flash of light, then . . . nothing. Dead. Nada.

    If we start seeing some more of that, we'll need to re-evaluate the practicality of this setup.

    For now, though, I'd say that what we are seeing is just life in the incan-big-city. Stuff like this happens in the best of cases, unfortunately. Sorry to hear about it. And thanks for posting the picture!
    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

  28. #118
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    Jim, totally agree with you. The smoking inside is different than that of the MN21 at 7.5 volts. The MN21 was a progressive event getting worse and worse from severe overdrive ? But this happenned all in about 30 seconds, and the dark inside is a lot more even, unlike the MN21 where the filament itself began burning the envelope on one side first.

    I would dare say that this was a lamp flaw itself and not a problem of the setup, so like I said I'll start using my other new MN15. Bottom line is this lamp was like new all through its life until the very sudden death, all the while the filament itself is still intact.

  29. #119
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    I had the same blackening problem but with a MN60 with about 4 hours on it in a M4. I called Surefire and they said it was a flawed bulb so they shipped me a replacement next day. Also, I have purchased a M6 with the X-LOLA after reading this thread and I couldn't be happier with the performance.
    Thanks guys.

  30. #120
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    Default Re: The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

    Quote Originally Posted by js
    There is a low output LA for the E2e that runs for 2.5 hours and is nice and white. MN02, IIRC.
    Perfect! Now I need to find an E series bezel for my L4.
    "Et lux in tenebris lucet"

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