The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

[BSBG]

Great thread!

Another reason I thnk I'll be ordering an M6 sooner rather than later. I even have a couple of MN15's sitting around for my M3T.

[bakemono 415]

i got a mn15 bulb today in my M6. i was just wondering if the beam pattern is supposed to be oval in shape as compared to the round pattern with the MN21

[LED61]

i got a mn15 bulb today in my M6. i was just wondering if the beam pattern is supposed to be oval in shape as compared to the round pattern with the MN21

Yep, you are OK. Actually they are all oval but the MN15 more so. I like it because I can choose to illuminate wider or taller. And, isn´t the bright white beam amazing ?

[1wrx7]

Last night I tried using a LF HOM3T bulb in my M6. I was wondering if anyone has used this bulb for an extended time yet? Will it handle fresh primaries? I know these bulbs are still new, but has anyone done life cycle testing.

[dolbyyy]

Hi all,
I've just ordered a new M6, it should arrive in the next few days and I was bit worried about the old MN20 problems that I've read in this wonderful thread. So I would ask you if there is any way to recognize an old MN20 model vs. the new model by just looking at the lamp. Is there something that I should notice or read on the MN20 in order to notice that it's the new or the old one?
Thx

[js]

If it isn't black with white lettering saying "MN20" then it is definitely an old MN20--I think they were purple? And the MN21's were grey? I think that's right.

If it IS black with white lettering, then it could possibly be an old, or it could be a new. The only way to be sure is to count the coils on the filament. I can't remember off the top of my head, but I can post back here later with the figure, because the new design MN20 has two more coils in the filament winding. I think that's right. And--I'm guessing--but I seem to remember 12 vs. 14 as the winding numbers. Hmmm. Not sure, though.

If it is an older colored LA, be careful. A lot of them simply explode when you first use them, and that doesn't do anything helpful for the inside of your turbo head! LOL!

[dolbyyy]

If it is an older colored LA, be careful. A lot of them simply explode when you first use them, and that doesn't do anything helpful for the inside of your turbo head! LOL!

Oh Thanks js for warning me. Now I know that I have to pay attention to the model of MN20 I'm receiving. I wouldn't start enjoying my new M6 with an explosion in my hands
Now I also understand why an ebayer added this warning to the M6 description he is selling:
"This version ships with the M21 Lamp because of Lamp productions issues for the M20"

Well, I have to cross my fingers

[NickDrak]

Interesting thread! I hope to have a M6 soon, so this info will definately come in handy

[william lafferty]

js

Any thoughts on running an MN16 on an M4 body bored out to accept 2 x 18650s? I really like the throw this setup produces and although I havent yet performed any tests, I expect the runtime to be decent. (Leef also produces a 2 x 18650 body C to M). Would be interested in comparing the beams, runtime and general usefulness of this setup with the M6 using MN15s and primaries.

bill lafferty

[JimmyB]

Now I also understand why an ebayer added this warning to the M6 description he is selling:
"This version ships with the M21 Lamp because of Lamp productions issues for the M20"

I don't think the seller was warning about reliability issues. For a time all M6's were shipping with a voucher for the MN20 because they weren't available. You could either wait for an MN20 or get another MN21.

None of this takes away from JS's statement on older MN20's.

[tino_ale]

Wow! very cool finding!

At this time, I have an M3 running MN10 on two 17500. This setup is brighter than running primaries because the voltage under load is higher than a single stack of 3 123's... My guestimate is that I'm getting 140 lumens for about 1 hour.

Could someone confirm a MN10 running on two 17500 gives about 140 lumens? I'd like to know how much brighter is the M6-X setup compared to what I have now... thanks!

[BSBG]

Wow! very cool finding!



Could someone confirm a MN10 running on two 17500 gives about 140 lumens? I'd like to know how much brighter is the M6-X setup compared to what I have now... thanks!

From the link below:
Cell configuration: 2x17500

Bulb Options:
SF MN15: 9.5W, 151 - 94 lumen in 52 minutes


http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=161536

Hope this helps.

[js]

Bill Laferty,

No experience with 2 18650's running MN16m sorry!

dolbyyy,

What Jimmy said. For a time, the MN20 was unavailable from SureFire, and M6's shipped with MN21 and voucher for MN20 when they became available. I don't know what the inside story was on the MN20, but certainly, the new MN20's are physically different. They have slightly different filaments and run at a lower CCT. At some point, I'd like to do a side by side comparison of them, but there are a lot of other things higher priority, so I haven't gotten around to doing it yet. So many projects, so little free time . . .

[SunStar]

js

Any thoughts on running an MN16 on an M4 body bored out to accept 2 x 18650s? I really like the throw this setup produces and although I havent yet performed any tests, I expect the runtime to be decent. (Leef also produces a 2 x 18650 body C to M). Would be interested in comparing the beams, runtime and general usefulness of this setup with the M6 using MN15s and primaries.

bill lafferty

The MN16 / M4 / (2) 18650 is much brighter than the MN15 / M6 / primaries set up and will only run 40 - 45 minutes as compared to the 2.5 hour runtime of the MN15 / M6. The MN16 is an awesome lamp - one of my favorites - but it is hungry. I have also found the MN16 on (2) 18650's to be brighter than the MN60 (w. primaries) and the MN20 (w. Li-ions). A great compromise is using the MN20 powered with (2) 18650's providing about 10 minutes additional runtime over the MN16.

[tino_ale]

Thanks, great info!

When you estimate 200 lumens from the M6-X, do you have any idea how it drops during runtime? Something like 220-160 lumens in 2 hours or so?

From the link below:
Cell configuration: 2x17500

Bulb Options:
SF MN15: 9.5W, 151 - 94 lumen in 52 minutes


http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=161536

Hope this helps.

[js]

tino_ale,

It stays at 200 for the first hour or so, then gradually falls to 100 at 2.5 hours.

[Bullzeyebill]

SunStar, I believe that the MN16 with two 18650's has been found to be on the edge voltage wise, and can die. Same with the P91 LA. Should really drain some voltage off two fully charged 18650's before turning MN16 on. Three CR123 with the MN16 and there is enough voltage sag to run it to spec.

Bill

[william lafferty]

SunStar, I believe that the MN16 with two 18650's has been found to be on the edge voltage wise, and can die. Same with the P91 LA. Should really drain some voltage off two fully charged 18650's before turning MN16 on. Three CR123 with the MN16 and there is enough voltage sag to run it to spec.

Bill

I'd like to understand this better, Bill. The Surefire site says that the M16 is suited for the M3T. The M3T uses 3 x 123, or 9 volts. Two 18650's produce 8.4 volts, fully charged. Why is it that the 18650's might be too much for the M16 bulb?

bill lafferty

[Bullzeyebill]

bill, I have been running a search on the voltage requirements of the MN16, no luck yet. The voltage requirements of the MN16 (P91) are lower than the MN15. The voltage is lower while the current is significantly higher, about 2.5 amps or so. Still looking.

Bill

[Bullzeyebill]

bill, read the first page of this thread. Some discussion there about the MN15, and MN16 re voltage. The thread primarly concerns the use of the MN15 in the M6, but the info about voltage is an eye opener and 2X18650's hold their voltage similiar to the 6 CR123's running in parallel in the M6. Post #20 is good.

Bill

Correction, post #22.

[Brozneo]

So just wondering would this set up work - If I ran my M6 for awhile with the 250lumen stock LA, then I put the MN16 in - would it be at less risk of blowing then??? Or the same as they batteries dont sag too much??

[Bullzeyebill]

Read the first page of this thread. This has been discussed. In fact read the whole thread.

Bill

[js]

Yes. Please read over the thread before asking any question or posting any comments. At least read MY posts, anyway!

Also, if people want to talk about running any particular SF lamp assembly on two 18650's or seventeen CR123A or whatever, I'd appreciate it if you could do so elsewhere! There are plenty of threads on almost every conceivable topic, and most of them can be found with the search function. Or if you must, start a new thread in the appropriate forum. But adding on off-topic material to this thread isn't the best approach. Or, if you want to ask ME in particular, send a PM instead!

Thanks very much, everyone. And, just to be clear, I'm not mad or peeved or anything. I just would prefer that my threads not get cluttered up with extraneous strings of posts.

[bwaites]

So do we have any idea on the life expectancy of the MN15 run this way yet?

Bill

[js]

Good question, Bill.

Yes. Unfortunately, it's looking like something in the 15-20 hour range, but our sample size is fairly small as of yet. My MN15 is still going strong, but I haven't yet exceeded the 20 hour mark. I was really hoping it would be more like 30 hours, but still, even 15 isn't bad. I mean the WA1111 on 6 good NiMH cells is only in the 11 or so hour life expectancy, so, it's better than that! The price of a very high CCT, I guess. No instaflashes that I'm aware of, yet, though, so that's good.

Anyway, thanks for asking!

[Katdaddy]

js, you are wreaking havoc on my finances! First it was your magnum opus on the A2(I have three so far), now this on the M6. I have been successfully fighting the urge to buy one for several months now. But after finding this thread I HAVE to get one.
Seriously......... great info! This is why I Love CPF!

[william lafferty]

For the last three weeks I have been running my own tests of the M6-MN15 combination by taking it and at least one other light with me on my nightly walks through the local cemetery and comparing the effectiveness of the lights. The cemetery is between 400 and 600 acres and has no lighting, so during the times when I'm not scared out of my wits, I turn the lights on and compare them.

The bottom line is that the M6 M15 combination is terrific. It lights up everything beautifully within 50 yards. It allows you to identify a man sized object easily at 100 yards. And under the right conditions it will allow you to identify a man sized object at 200 yards, but that is stretching it. If there is too much ambient light; if the object is in brush or a hedgerow; if the object is dark in color, the 200 yards identification will not work.

But having said that, most of what we need light for is closer than 200 yards, and for the reasonably close stuff the MN15 is fine. An MN 20 is noticeably brighter, but it has a short run time, and if I wanted to use a second light to back up the M6 M15, it would be an M4 bored out for 2 x 18650 fitted with the MN16 bulb. This combination is noticeably brighter than the M6 MN15 and provides much better light at 200 yards.

The importance of js's discovery of the M6 MN15 combination and his sharing it on this thread is that it gives most of us a way to use our M6's. I have always really liked M6's, but until this thread, I never used mine much because it never made much sense to me to keep putting 6 primaries in the tube after short run times. Using the MN15 allows you to use your M6, get great and useful brightness out of it, and not always be feeding it cells. Thanks js.

[pedrop357]

Agreed. I bought an M6-CB and while it was being ordered, I found this thread. When I picked up the M6, I bought an MN15.

I live in Vegas and drive out to Red Rock and stand on the side of the road and wait for the cars to disappear so I can test range and output of my lights. I imagine it must look pretty suspicious for drivers, but oh well.

The MN15 in the M6 is an awesome light. It had excellent range and overall output and the 2.5 hour runtime is a huge draw on top of that. The size and bezel of the M6 add to the utility and defensive capabilities.

The MN15 adds quite a bit of value and range of utility to the M6 for those a little weary of paying 330+ for a flashlight.

This was the same reason I justified to myself buying my U2. The output settings enabled me to have a low output light for everyday use and in an emergency it would also give me long battery life. The high end enable long distance and potential tactical use and gave me a nice battery life on that end as well.

[js]

Katdaddy,

Thanks! I was just so thrilled about this combo that I had to share it and report on it and keep a thread going on it. The M6 is a thing of beauty, and to have a long running, high CCT lamp for it is such a boon.

william lafferty,

Really great field testing info! Thanks so much for reporting it here!

pedrop357,

Yup. It's a really nice combination of factors. First I love the size and ergonomics of the M6. Second, I love the output and whiteness of the MN15 (and MN20 and MN21, too, actually). And third, the 2.5 hour runtime is really fantastic considering the output and size. 2.5 hours covers so many more situations than 1.0 hour or 20 minutes. Although, I really, REALLY love the MN20 beam as much or more than the MN15. But given how I use the M6, the MN15 is a better choice, the MN20 being actually a bit too much output for my most frequent uses.

Anyway, thanks everyone! Please feel free to keep the reports coming. They are important information for this setup as used in the "field", in real life.

[seery]

I updated back in June on MN15 bulb life and now it's been another 5 months.

Since June my dedicated M6 X-LOLA light lasted 22 hours and the current bulb
has 16 hours and looks as bright/white as when compared side-by-side with
another of my M6's with a brand new MN15.

A few weeks back the M6 X-LOLA took a hard fall onto the dock, off the side of
my aluminum boat and into the water. Is only 4' deep at the dock so it was
fished out in a minute or two. The light was on when this happened and like
other bangs and falls, no ill effect.

I'm getting better bulb life this go around. Only difference has been the outside
temperature, first few of the initial 5 months were during cold winter months,
whereas the past 5 months have been nice summer/fall temperatures. During
the winter months I like to shine the M6 under the ice.