on Modding, Hi-Spec, Over-Spec, etc...

Dear Forum:

Reading posts on this forum, it seems that a lot of people have misconceptions about what constitutes modding, or what pointer is considered "hi-spec", and what is an "overpowered" pointer.

Perhaps this will clear up some misunderstandings, so that everybody can at least be talking about this within the same context. The following is my understanding of the topic. Be sure to get yourself a cup of tea or coffee, as this is a long one...:sleepy:

Modding:

Due to the differences in crystal quality, alignment, and luck, every green laser pointer that is manufactured will have a different final output. In order to stay within Class IIIa, the manufacturer uses the potentiometer to turn the output down, so that all units are below 5mW. One could say that the manufacturer is "pot-modding" the pointer to be below 5mW.

The reason why they make the initial laser above spec is because of this 'luck of the draw' phenomenon- they do not want any 1mW pointers as they cannot sell them for as much as a 5mW. The pointers are built so that the majority will be above 5mW.

For example: The manufacturer produces two pointers using a 200mW pump diode. One has an output of 25mW, and the other has an output of 5mW. These will both heat up just the same, and will drop off in output at the same time if there is no heat sink. Before shipping, the manufacturer will pot-mod the 25mW unit to output <5mW. Because it is using a lower pump current than the other unit, this laser will not heat up as much, and will produce more stable output for a longer period of time.

When you pot-mod a pointer, all you are doing is returning the laser to its original maximum output power. The actual output power is not what determines how much a pointer will warm up, this depends more on how much current/pump power is being used to generate that output power.

Keep in mind that unless a pointer has some sort of heat sink, even a 5mW, with the diode running at 30% capacity will not produce full output for more than a minute before requiring a cool-down cycle. There is just not enough heat sinking in these units to keep everything cool. When you mod a pointer to 100% of the diode's capacity, this effect is amplified, and the drop-off will happen sooner.

Hi-Spec Units:

A retailer can request from the manufacturer that they forgo the pot-modding procedure and ship the units as-is. This is a high-spec unit. Companies such as DragonLasers and WickedLasers have the manufacturer do just that, mind you the manufacturer also uses a 500mW pump diode to further increase the output. So in reality, if you pot-mod a laser pointer back to its original setting, you are determining whether your laser was originally a high-spec unit or not- if the output goes up, you're lucky, if it does not, then that's what the laser originally qualified as.

Over-powered Pointers:

While there is no problem in running a laser pointer at full-tilt which has a 200mW pump diode for short periods of time, thermal issues really come into play when you use a 500mW pump diode unless you have a pretty beefy heat sink. For this reason, CNI recommends a duty cycle of only 7 seconds on the black+gold high power pointers that we are all familiar with. This has been confirmed by someone who posted a review of a Dragonlaser, where the retailer left the original CNI instructions in the box. CNI is very conservative when it comes to specs, so we can safely say that the duty cycle should be ~15-20seconds.

Ebay High-Powered Pointers:

There are many factories in China looking to cash-in on the high power pointer market. These companies have very little experience with DPSS laser technology, as they mostly manufacture various LED novelties, flashlights, etc... These companies try everything to get the output up- which includes neglecting to install an IR filter. Unsuspecting ebay customers buy 150mW green lasers thinking they got a great deal, when in reality they got a 30mW laser which they could have purchased from a reputable seller for around the same price, and wouldn't be shining a 100mW IR beam all over the place...

Perhaps we can compile a list of companies and ebayers who are selling these lasers, two come to mind right away, but there may be more- please feel free to add to the list:

-Spymodex
-Valvolo


I hope that this post is informative, and will help many people make the right choice in making their purchase. If you're still awake after reading this, you deserve a medal! :goodjob:


Please post any comments, critique, etc, and I will edit this post accordingly.:thumbsup:

-Dimitry Fedorov
LASERGLOW.COM LIMITED

Great post! The more we can steer people away from the generic Ebay laser, the better.

I agree. I think that it's highly unfair to the consumer that these companies advertise their items w/ such high outputs, when in reality they are simply being overdriven (REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY SAY). Most of these companies haven't been around very long, simply due to the fact that the technology is still relatively new. With that being said, we have no way of knowing what the long term affect on the life expectency of these lasers. Being that most of us who buy the higher powered lasers spend $1000 or more, it would be nice to have the satisfaction that the device being purchased will last for many years to come.

Example: Computer processors have headroom, or the difference between recommended/stock speed in comparison to its limits. Most of these chips have a ~10% headroom, sometimes more or less. When overclocked, or pushed past stock speed, overvolting occurs to some degree, sometimes causing for fatal errors. This overvolting, and pushing the lasers past stock specifications has the same impact as it does on processors. Though the processor [laser] may run faster [more powerfully] for some time and be stable, its life expectency is dramatically reduced.

Great reading Dimitry and easily done with out coffee or tea

Knew about modding to increase power but never to decrease power.

LASERGLOW.COM said:

Hi-Spec Units:
A retailer can request from the manufacturer that they forgo the pot-modding procedure and ship the units as-is. This is a high-spec unit. Companies such as DragonLasers and WickedLasers have the manufacturer do just that, mind you the manufacturer also uses a 500mW pump diode to further increase the output. So in reality, if you pot-mod a laser pointer back to its original setting, you are determining whether your laser was originally a high-spec unit or not- if the output goes up, you're lucky, if it does not, then that's what the laser originally qualified as.
LASERGLOW.COM LIMITED

Click to expand...

Do you also request for the manufacturer of your high powered lasers to forgo ot modding?

A duty cycle of 7 seconds??? Arrgghhh not much you can do in that time. I've got a 125mW glp from dragonlasers and i just had a look on their website info page http://dragonlasers.com/laser_info and can't find any information about a short duty cycle.

Mine was an expensive purchase for me so i'm paranoid about damaging it and have not used it for more than 100 seconds. It gets a bit warm but can't notice any loss of power.

Is there a universal duty cycle that can be applied to all laser pointers or does it depend on the thermal properties of individual lasers?

Whenever I evaluate a Class IIIb green laser in pointer format, I always furnish a duty cycle recommendation, whether the seller supplies one or not.

A good place to start is a duty cycle of 25-50% (30 seconds on, 30-60 seconds off for cooling).

I can run my 75mw dragonlasers pointer for over a minute with minimal heating and no power reduction... it gets a little bit warm after a minute, but no warmer than what heat your hand would transfer to it if holding it for a minute.

Some comments on a similar thread here...

I found some listings for suppliers we need more information on!

I second any request for Blacklisting suppliers like Ebaiters "Bait & switch".



E

Good Info here. All very true.

When I got my DL95, it came with the 7 second warning. What can't I do in 7 seconds with it ?? Pop a balloon in a heartbeat and if I demo the beam to someone, one second is enough !! But a few days later, DL sent me an email that 100 seconds would be OK but watch for heating. I didn't even ask them about this but they sent me the mail on their own. Gotta love that.

Mike

I've read the foregoing with some interest and wondered about the 50mW pot-modded green laser being sold at DX. Based on information there, the product was offered as a result of numerous requests by customers. The modded laser is an overdriven 20mW or 30mW diode hiked up to the advertised power. Although it's offered with the understanding that such modded lasers might take a longevity hit, I was wondering what might be expected at this power level? I, too, can't imagine using such a pointer for more than a few seconds at a time.

I also realize that manufacturers of these lasers don't offer IR protection and my understanding is that reflected beams are not harmful as long as they keep moving and not aimed at just one spot. Am I right on that?

Finally, this notice, too, is being posted. Is it new?

Important FDA Warning for all >5mW Lasers: FDA advices all customers that these lasers may be purchased only if you are NOT a citizen of the United States and you are NOT currently living in the United States.

What does the Food and Drug Administration have to do with lasers? Thanks!

LASERGLOW.COM said:

Dear Forum:

Reading posts on this forum, it seems that a lot of people have misconceptions about what constitutes modding, or what pointer is considered "hi-spec", and what is an "overpowered" pointer......
....
Ebay High-Powered Pointers:

There are many factories in China looking to cash-in on the high power pointer market. These companies have very little experience with DPSS laser technology, as they mostly manufacture various LED novelties, flashlights, etc... These companies try everything to get the output up- which includes neglecting to install an IR filter. Unsuspecting ebay customers buy 150mW green lasers thinking they got a great deal, when in reality they got a 30mW laser which they could have purchased from a reputable seller for around the same price, and wouldn't be shining a 100mW IR beam all over the place...

Perhaps we can compile a list of companies and ebayers who are selling these lasers, two come to mind right away, but there may be more- please feel free to add to the list:

-Spymodex
-Valvolo

......
Please post any comments, critique, etc, and I will edit this post accordingly.:thumbsup:

-Dimitry Fedorov
LASERGLOW.COM LIMITED

Click to expand...

Do the ebay lasers burn? They show a 300mw burning. And claim that it does just that or your money back.

What if you put an IR filter on the ebay lasers? Such as one from another laser that burnt and now can be taken apart, such as taking the IR filter lens off and putting it on the ebayed one?

Every time I get a new laser, one of the first things I do is perform spectroscopy of it to check for the presence of, absence of, or effectiveness of its NIR filter.

A very few lasers I've purchased on Ebay were well-filtered for the ~808nm laser diode pump line, but most had poor or no filtering at this wavelength.
This pretty much jives with the findings of other CPFers - that is, a very few are well-filtered, but that most are not - they have either poor filtering or none at all.

Just my 2¢ on the matter.

Confederate said:

Finally, this notice, too, is being posted. Is it new?
Important FDA Warning for all >5mW Lasers: FDA advices all customers that these lasers may be purchased only if you are NOT a citizen of the United States and you are NOT currently living in the United States.

What does the Food and Drug Administration have to do with lasers? Thanks!

Click to expand...

The FDA is somehow connected with the CDRH (Center for Devices and Radiological Heath - formerly the BRH (Bureau of Radiological Health)), the government agency responsible for laser power level classifications, lasers' importation to the USA, and similar things.

Spymodex sucks

Spymodex sell some nice things, but when you ask the for a copy of the warranty or bill of sale - the just ignore you even aftare 5 e-mail ..... but try to place a new order, and suddenly they are as fast as a pussycat ...... i cant recomend doing buisiness with these guys.

Bonny Onsberg