GatLight V3 - Carbon Fiber / Titanium with Cree XR-E

[karlthev]

Walter, as you well know, I have loved every one of the Gatlight designs and have followed (and bought) you work all along the way. Absolutely beautiful looking and performing lights!! This latest design by far the most futuristic in appearance and materials thus far. Amazing! Thanks.


Karl

[fleegs]

My present to you for the holidays is...my opinion! I think you should do V3 in plain Ti. Then do V4 offering the coating options. That way I could get both since they will be spaced out by a few months!

I seriously hope that this is not one of your better presents.


Happy Holidays!


rob

[reptiles]

Hi, I was just wondering... with a diameter of 1.25" could a quad Cree be a possibility?

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=144967

We're never happy, are we?

Cheers,

Mark

[charlesn]

I purchased a V2 SS and really wanted to like it more than I did. No question that the Gat is a stunning piece of design work, but ultimately, it went back on resale market a week later. But the promise of carbon fiber has me looking again, based on my issues with the V2:

1) Weight. This was the big deal breaker for me. Beautiful to look at, and a reasonable size for EDC (if a bit large), but there's no way I'd carry the Gat at its current weight. That relegated the light to shelf queen status. Carbon fiber wouid go a long way (I think) to solving this issue.

2) Interface. I REALLY disliked the twist knob, and didn't think it had a "quality feel" when you turned it. I also think (JMO, of course) the knob is a blight on the overall gorgeous design work of the Gat. A single slightly recessed button on the back (like the latest version of the HDS light) would seem to be the most elegant solution that wouldn't break up the Gat's form factor with a knob. I'm not a huge fan of the HDS "clicking" to reach the various levels--in the realm of variable light level programming for a single button, George's work for MR Bulk is the best I've seen.

That said, I think there is so much to like about the Gatlight, which is why I remain interested in what happens with the V3.

[Rudi]

my feelings exactly

[Mirage_Man]

Count me in.

MM

[mobile1]

Update

BLACK COATING
Ok we got the coating samples in (for the black coated versions)... here is a photo next to a TypeIII annodized Golston, a plastic coated space pen and -3- GatLight V2's (TI, SS, AL - from left to right).

the drill bit on the left is the Carbon Based Coating, the Drill Bit on the right is the Aluminum Titanium Nitride Coating. Both Coatings are extremely hard but not quite the black we had in mind.... Also they are very shiny.

So the black will have to go back to the drawing board... an option would be to make the black parts Type III Aluminum or just do'em all natural.




CARBON FIBER
Than I got the Carbon Fiber samples in from Europe. They sent 2 samples one is labeled GROUND+VARNISH. The pattern of that one is a bit more irregular, however it seems to have an extra epoxy layer on top... and is completely smooth to the touch (like polished). The second sample on the right labeled "AS MOULDED" is my preference. The cosmetic weave pattern is more symetric. Because the extra epoxy layer is missing... the pattern is also more visible. ON the other hand when touching the "MOULDED" sample its more rough and you can feel the bands of the cosmetic weave pattern (probably soaked in epoxy) that were wrapped around the Carbon Fiber.



Here is a close up... Even theough the tube on the right seems like it has scratches... it doesn't... it's just reflections.



FEEDBACK V2
Than regarding the V2 Feedback, one was in regards to weight. We noticed that a lot of people liked the heavier weight of the steel... for me personally it is a bit too heavy as well which is why I opted for the AL V2...which is perfect in regards to weight. The v3 will be made of a light materials... TI/AL /Carbon Fiber, so it will be light weight. Also the V3 will have a lot less metal than the V2 had which will further decrease the weight. Oh and the weight of the CF is pretty much nothing... the tubes in the photos are very very light weight...

User interface... is actually one of the main thing we want to improve for this V3. Adding a push button should provide the ideal user interface. Leave the knob rotated at your desired brightness level.. push the button to turn it on.. push button to turn it off. (Or leave the button at on all the time and simply use the knob like with the V2). It probably doesnt get simpler than that. We should get some samples in so we can let you know whether we can make it work... however one of our top priorities.

Happy Holidays to everyone...

[Argent60]

Mobile1-
Thanks for the update.

I would have to agree with you on the outcome of the Carbon Based Coating and Aluminum Titanium Nitride Coating. The light needs something closer to true black for it to look good(IMHO). If no other solution for this becomes available, I would prefer the Ti only version.
I also like the AS Moulded CF because it is more subtle than the G + V. Again, this is just my opinion, but I think the G + V would take away too much attention from the light itself.

Now let's hear from the others who are in on this group buy as to what they think.


Argent60

[arewethereyetdad]

regarding the V2 Feedback, one was in regards to weight. We noticed that a lot of people liked the heavier weight of the steel.

I'm one of them. I like the weight of the SS V2. This is not a light to be carried in one's pocket; it's a light to be carried in its belt sheath. If you carry it in your belt sheath, IMO the small extra weight is not a problem.

Having said that, I am still interested in the V3 if only for the improved switch. Would love the possibility of a V3 in SS.

Thanks for the update, Walter! See you at SHOT?

[solaris]

The new switch in the v3 sounds great, count me in

[Stillphoto]

I'm a big carbon fiber fan, and I must say the ground and varnished version is something I've yet to see. Compared to the regular cf, you can see that they basically did what it says, ground down the outer fibers, creating that very different pattern, then varnishing over it to seal it. While I really like that, I think the more traditional looking cf is the way to go.

As for the knob, thats part of the attraction to the device, it was designed that way from the start to set itself apart from the crowd by having a unique user interface. I think that the V3's proposed set-up using a button/knob combo is a great idea that should satisfy both the lovers and haters of the knob idea. I only have the V1, so I can only imagine how cool the V2 is in comparison. It's going to be fun with the V3!

[vandrecken]

Sorry - i'm not impressed with your carbon fibre samples.

Suggest you take a look at good mountain bike with carbon fibre handlebars by easton, carbon fibre knife handles by william henry knives or even benchmade, and CF cigar tubes by dunhill to see decent quality.

Properly done, ground and varnished looks superb. It doesn't mess up the weave and adds a lusterous 3D glow.

CF is also quite hard work to get right. Unless it's cut with v sharp tools it tears out and looks a total mess.

I'm not aiming to be a spoilsport - I really like the idea of the CF tube - but what I see of those samples is nowhere near good enough for the Gatlight and falls way short of what can be achieved in CF.

Try http://www.williamhenryknives.com/pr...ker-art-sm.gif

to get an idea of what I mean.

This is an example of woven CF that has been ground or sanded to shape and left smooth but with no finish applied.

[reptiles]

Here is another example of fine CF for comparison:
http://www.elighters.com/054310.html

[Argent60]

Here is another example of fine CF for comparison:
http://www.elighters.com/054310.html

That looks very nice.

[mobile1]

Here is another example of fine CF for comparison:
http://www.elighters.com/054310.html

That example is a Carbon Fiber Veneer... for the GatLight however we want to use the real stuff... so you'll get the low weight, high strenght benefit. The samples we got are real CF tubes with a cosmetic weave on top, which is always harder to do than a Veneer. Even though Veneers would be another way to go, we'd find it inappropriate for the GatLight.

[reptiles]

That example is a Carbon Fiber Veneer... for the GatLight however we want to use the real stuff... so you'll get the low weight, high strenght benefit. The samples we got are real CF tubes with a cosmetic weave on top, which is always harder to do than a Veneer. Even though Veneers would be another way to go, we'd find it inappropriate for the GatLight.

Agree that you don't want a veneer... the cigar case is CF over wood (because they need the wood to hold moisture to keep the cigar humid.)
The appearance of the epoxy surface finish, and fine weave of the CF is what I intended to illustrate.

Regards, Mark

[karlthev]

Sorry but not a carbon fiber fan---for fishing poles and bike frames but not for me on a Gatlight--the name and concept being derived from a historical basis. I'll go for the Ti any day and, either one of the "costings" but would prefer the Aluminum Titanium Nitride Coating. It's back enogh for a strong contrast if you ask me. Just my opinion. Also, elimination of the rotary and installation of a button ala HDS is a replication of HDS and not an original. Keep the basic concept and design close to the original V1, along with some updates, not a brand new light.



Karl

[PB92]

The CF "as moulded" is much better. I have 2 sets of custom made CF grips on my Beretta 92Compgun " as moulded". The "ground & varnish" takes away from the character of the CF.

[mobile1]

Hello everyone.... TIME FOR ANOTHER UPDATE... AND LOTS OF EYE CANDY to make up for the week without updates....

Even though there hasn't been an update for a while we have been working hard on the V3.. a couple weeks just to find a solution to add a clicky swtich. So here is what's going on at the moment.

Pushbutton Switch: We think we have found a way to make it work by using Don's excellent McClicky switch (thanks to Don for his help on this). We're expecting to have a prototype ready within 2-3 weeks and should be able to tell for sure than.

Also in response to Karl's post the clicky switch does not replace the rotary knob... but will be built into it. So if you prefered the old user interface it's still there. Just leave the clicky in the on position. You can turn the knob to off... and on as usual with variable brightness.

Or you can just rotate the knob to your favorite brightness... and use the on/off clicky to turn the light on/off... anyway at least that's the plan. Of course whether and if it works we'll know in about 2-3 weeks.

Renderings
Now get ready for some eye candy... here is what the light will look like with the push button switch...

by the way if your internet connection is fast enough.. you may click onto the pictures and a super high resolution rendering will open at 3360x2100 pixels.. feel free to print it out use it as screen background or whatever (Warning those files are each about 1.2 MB in size so I wouldn't click on it with a dial up unless you don't mind waiting a bit). The background btw is the preliminary fabrication drawing of the center section.






You can see that the clicky switch is hidden elegantly inside of the knob. At the same time having the knob filled with the clicky should reduce the weight quite a bit.







Driver
Than we're still working on the electronics. Trying to find a buck boost chip that can accept battery voltage input lower than 2.5V, ideally 2V or less and higher than 6V ideally and which can handle 4-5W. If anyone knows of one let us know. Most of them that would work seem to be limited to 2.5V. We have a high efficiency boost only chip at the moment but we believe it might lower the minimum brightness level (since LED VF > battery voltage with a boost chip only driver - tests pending)... so we want to have another option which a buck boost could provide if there is one out there.

Optics / Lube
Than we are also testing other options regarding, Optics, Lube (to make the knob turn easier)... all still in evaluation... or just an idea....

Anyway keep your fingers crossed that the knob will work as anticipated if you have a V2 or V1 you'll know how little space there is.

Carbon Fiber
Than regarding the Carbon Fiber, we found out that the length is critical. It is fairly hard to cut it to length with the tolerance we need, especially since the CF sleeve is fairly thin. At the moment we'll sand it down manually to get the exact length we require.

Black & White Version
Regarding the black contrast version... the prototypes (probably 2-3 lights) will all be in Titanium. When those work we'll decide than whether we'll go black/white or natural.... b/w ads another step another process (coating) and for TI as you can see in my previous post it's a challenge/if not impossible to get a dark color.

[nein166]

WOW the McClicky looks amazing hope it works out.
Very interested, I'm on board for my first TI. I hope your new shop can make enough for all of us.

[karlthev]

Now THAT'S what I call an update Walter!!! WoW!! I'm on the edge of my seat on this one!


Karl

[Concept]

Cheers for the update and great progress. I am getting excited again!

[KingSmono]

Yes! Now that I have the blueprints, I can start producing my OWN GatLights... Mua-hahahahaha! JK, Looking good Walter

-Allen

[smokelaw1]

Looks incredible! Thanks for the update.

[Amorphous]

Walter / Kyle,

Awesome design!!
Regarding the buck / boost chip, check out "TPS63000"

Amorphous

[mobile1]

Walter / Kyle,

Awesome design!!
Regarding the buck / boost chip, check out "TPS63000"

Amorphous

Thanks Amorphous... Kyle was about ready to give up his search and call you for some help when he bumped into that one as well. Thanks for looking it up and suggesting that one.

We probably can make that one work...
For those following the thread, if we succeed that would mean that the V3 would work with 3V primary lithiums and 3.6V rechargeables, without any limitations like the v2 had. Again that's pending tests but it would remove one of the limitations in the initial post (no dimming with rechargeables because of the boost chip).

[plain ol Bill]

Nice Walter! I find the material specs for 10072-4 on those drawings to be especially interesting . Have you had a chance to talk w/ your machining vendor about their requirements for chucking up material?

[mobile1]

Nice Walter! I find the material specs for 10072-4 on those drawings to be especially interesting . Have you had a chance to talk w/ your machining vendor about their requirements for chucking up material?

Hey Bill.... I just heard back today regarding that question. I'll shoot you an email as well. However since the 10072-4 material is pending a prototype we'll keep that special material of yours under wraps here, at least until we know it can be done... . We need a minimum of about 2 inches to chuck it up... a light needs about 5 inches of material... so ideal would be 8-10 inches for a prototype to be on the save side.

To everyone else, what that 10072-4 might be we'll leave this up to the imagination for now... you can always guess obviously...

[UKSFighter]

I'm in, number 26

[Weskix]

Make one for me too, I'm diggin the clicky on it. If the proto works well I'll send my paypal whenever required if the price stays under $300.