123 lithiums dead in the pack

Trouthead

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I ordered 12 lithium NON- rechargable batteries for my various lights. I won't name the supplier just yet, but I might in later posts.

The batteries have sat in my desk drawer for the last year. I went to use two the other day, popped them in the Surefire, and got no beam. Checked tham with a ZTS and found most completly dead with a few reading 20%.

Is this common place? Should they be replaced. I did email the supplier, and they said they would "throw in a few" with my next order. I placed an order and emailed the request to "throw in a few" I received nothing.

Now this is only about $18.00 worth of batteries, but this is also a supplier that I have done about $175.00 worth of busness with.

Should I be expecting full replacement? Should I just forget about it? Should I name the supplier? all opinions are appreciated.
 
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SilverFox

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Re: 123 litiums dead in the pack

Hello Trouthead,

I have seen that behavior with the bad batch of Titanium cells that came out a while back. I thought they were taken off the market and sold on eBay...

If you have a low power light, try using them in that light for a short period of time. Sometimes the chemistry needs a little jump start to get going. I have had cells start out at 10% recover all the way to 60% after doing this. In an A2, the 10% cells wouldn't light the lamp initially, but after "conditioning," gave me around 40 minutes of run time. Not good, but better than nothing.

BatteryStation cells that have been sold as rejects also share this behavior.

Tom
 

Trouthead

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Re: 123 litiums dead in the pack

don't think it is fair just yet to name names, but depending upon my level of ticked ofedness I might.

I have an Inova that takes 123s, and I could use them for that light, but I also have a number of 20% batteries that came out of the Surefires that work just fine in that application. The Inova will use up batteries and put out good light when fed batteries that are shot for use in the Surefires.

These are Litiums, not bought on Ebay, and certainly not marketed as seconds. Whats the point of Litiums (bought at 1.50 roughly a piece) if they are dead after a year of storage.
 

dfred

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Re: 123 litiums dead in the pack

I bought a bunch of Amondotech "new Titanium" 123s last year around this time and recently tested some of them while doing my pre-winter battery replacements. Of 12 tested with a ZTS, only 2 registred 80% or above. The rest measured 20% or below. I checked a few Surefire and Duracell 123 cells purchased around the same time, and they all registered 100%.

I know that the ZTS may have certain limitations, but there's quite a pattern there...
 

iced_theater

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Re: 123 litiums dead in the pack

I've had a few Titanium brand batteries come DOA, say about 6 out of 100 or so. Sucks, but for the price, it's not too bad.

Where at in Wyoming are you? I'm in Green River and this is the first time I've seen someone else from Wyoming on here.
 

LED61

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Re: 123 litiums dead in the pack

I had the same problem with the titaniums. I think its no sin to state the truth whatever it is in the forum to enrich the knowledge base of the users. Lithium batteries are serious business and stating the name would help us all.
 

Outrider

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Re: 123 litiums dead in the pack

Same here. Bought 20 Titanium CR123 from one of our regular advertisers last january.
I checked them on my ZTS in mid Sept. Results were: 1 at 80%, 2 at 60% 1 at 20% and the rest just dead. (and yes, I did test each cell at least 3 times)
mad.gif
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The 20 Duracells i got from CountyCom.com over a year ago ALL tested 100%
From now on it's Duracell or maybe Sanyo
 

SilverFox

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Re: 123 litiums dead in the pack

As long as we are naming names, I should also mention that I have seen similar behavior with GI, Marathon, and Golston cells.

Tom
 

Trouthead

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Re: 123 litiums dead in the pack

Before I name names, I'd like opinions/answers to the following question.

Should the company replace them with no questions asked?????
 

bfg9000

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Re: 123 litiums dead in the pack

When the newly reformulated Titanium 123As came out last September and were offered on CPF for 75 cents each, I bought a bunch.

Each one I stored in a light was dead within a year of non-use, while the unused ones still work fine, even with a P61. I suspect that once they are used (I tested the lights momentarily before storage in gloveboxes), they should be used up right away (which is a scary thought if you've just load tested all of them in a ZTS). Either that or they just degrade quickly from hot storage.

Poor Wayne has had nothing but headaches with 123As. First they did poorly in Tom's tests under load, and then the reformulated ones go flat by themselves or even explode if abused (though not mentioned as often as Battery Station 123As). The trouble is unequal charge can easily lead to unintentionally "abusing" the cells.
 

LED61

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Re: 123 litiums dead in the pack

The bottom line is these particular cells behave very erratic and unstable in the ZTS and the other name brands are very consistent and stable. That comparison is enough to drive me away from using them in multi cell flashlights. Despite this, I had a few test 100% and they were excellent performers in my SF M6 with the MN21 lamp, which stresses the batteries to 3C discharge rate.

I think battery Guru Silverfox can provide much more knowledge on this.
 

SilverFox

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Re: 123 litiums dead in the pack

Hello Trouthead,

If it were my company, I would replace them without questions. However, I can't speak for others...

Tom
 

RA40

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Re: 123 litiums dead in the pack

When the newly reformulated Titanium 123As came out last September and were offered on CPF for 75 cents each, I bought a bunch.

Same here. Mine have not been in the rotation because I have BS cells ahead of them. The Titaniums I just checked are :thumbsup:
 

etc

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It depends on the price you paid for it and the conditions of the sale.

I've seen a lot of times on ebay stuff like that sold for next to nothing, with no waranty implied or given. No refunds. The stuff may work well or at 75% capacity, but you pay much less than retail.

If these got sold as new and you pay that price, then expect a refund.
 

VidPro

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ya know the problem is, you have them :)
as long as you hold onto them for the purpose of replacement , it will be as a thorn in your side. if you chucked them, and put the dealer on your BLOCKED e-mail list, you could go on about life.

in other words i am indicating that , if the people arent going to refund ya money for junk, its not so much the money, but the AGGRIVATION of being screwed over. its like a bad piece of software, untill you remove it from your computer, its going to keep poking you in the eye :)
a person in a situation like this, can dispose of them properly, mail them back to the dealer, and go on about life.

umm so much for the psycology :)


also BFG200 said:
Each one I stored in a light was dead within a year of non-use

and i would note that there are some lights out there with electronic curcuitry that VERY slowly take tiny tiny bits of power, although its very tiny, its enough to leave you high and dry when you need to use a light. it sucks, and the only way to stop it, is to put a insulator in the flashlight for long term storage.
really a unused light shold not have a battery even IN it at all, due to various possibilities for leakage. but WTH was the point of 10 Year shelf life batts, if you cant keep them in something. dropping a piece of paper or plastic between the spring and the Battery, is a quick easy way to have the batts in there, but reduce or stop any discharge.
anyways that is a possibility, which has nothing to do with ones sitting in draweres.

if i had 1$ lithiums go dead to soon, i would write it off to being a cheapskate, if i had 3-4$ lithiums go dead to soon, i would have a FIT, but i would still know that if i wrote it off and went on with life, AVOIDING making that same error, i would be better off.

i think the dealer should take them back, and could stuff them where sun doesnt shine for them :), but sometimes ya just move on.
 
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Trouthead

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I understand the move on part, (I am a psychologist), and I actually tossed them a week ago, so even if the supplier asked for them back it will be impossible. It does however bug me because of the very short warranty on the batteries, and the fact that most likely thousands of these batteries were sold, the profit was made and the customer was screwed.

I have contacted the supplier, and will also PM the supplier to inform him of this topic (he just posted yesterday). It doesn't hurt to give him the opportunity to make it right for me. If it isn't made right I will block the sales emails from that supplier, and not do buisness with them again.

I will also name names. I just didn't think it was fair to name names without giving the supplier more than ample opportunity to make this right.

So life is short, but it is not so short to just lay down and take a small shafting.
 

bfg9000

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The lights I put them in were Maxfire LXes; no fancy circuitry there. And the Panasonic cells I have in them now (as well as the previous cheapo Vattnic cells from China and Tekcell cells from Korea) have had no storage problems in the same lights.

I really think they just can't be stored after use. The never previously used ones work fine and are the same age.
 
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