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Thread: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

  1. #1
    Flashaholic* chevrofreak's Avatar
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    Default Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    This light really took a long time to do....

    Output measurements taken within the first few seconds of a run. If you want to know the estimated lumens at any point on the graph, figure out the "Total Light Output" number on the vertical scale and divide it by 14.

    Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 5 - LG 2400mAh 18650: 1802 - (est 128.71 lumens)

    Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 5 - Energizer E2 CR123a: 1928 - (est 137.71 lumens)

    Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 5 - AW High Current 750mAh RCR123: 1993 - (est 142.36 lumens)




    Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 4 - LG 2400mAh 18650: 1270 - (est 90.71 lumens)

    Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 4 - Energizer E2 CR123a: 1338 - (est 95.57 lumens)

    Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 4 - AW High Current 750mAh RCR123: 1387 - (est 99.07 lumens)



    Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 3 - LG 2400mAh 18650: 907 - (est 64.79 lumens)

    Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 3 - Energizer E2 CR123a: 964 - (est 68.86 lumens)

    Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 3 - AW High Current 750mAh RCR123: 999 - (est 71.36 lumens)



    Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 2 - LG 2400mAh 18650: 541 - (est 38.64 lumens)

    Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 2 - Energizer E2 CR123a: 587 - (est 41.93 lumens)

    Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 2 - AW High Current 750mAh RCR123: 608 - (est 43.43 lumens)



    Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 1 - LG 2400mAh 18650: 178 - (est 12.71 lumens)

    Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 1 - Energizer E2 CR123a: 200 - (est 14.29 lumens)

    Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 1 - AW High Current 750mAh RCR123: 208 - (est 14.86 lumens)




    I have some of AW's new high current RCR123's and a much needed new charger coming thanks to a very generous person (iNDiGLo) so when those arrive I'll do a set of runtimes on each level with them as well.

    Thanks to everyone else who donated money, it paid for the CR123's. Thank you to 4sevens for donating the LG 18650's.

    Thanks a bunch to JonSidneyB who donated the light for testing.
    Last edited by chevrofreak; 01-12-2007 at 03:35 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    . Fantastic charts

  3. #3

    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    Hey Chevrofreak, great work as always. The FT-01PJ is the HAII body, right?


    Can I trouble you for just one more thing? Can you tell me what the lumen count is on the brightest SF U2 you have tested with the same setup you tested this Huntlight with? You don't have to post any graphs or anything, I'll take your word for it, thanks.

  4. #4
    Flashaholic* chevrofreak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    Yes this one is the black type II anodized version.

    The brightest U2 was 1572 (est 112.29 lumens)

    here's a graph anyway


  5. #5
    Flashaholic* Concept's Avatar
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    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    Cheers chevrofreak for a good job.
    Concept

  6. #6

    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    Is it safe to say this Huntlight is a U2 slayer for now? It's definitely brighter and runs longer, with 5 levels of brightness as well, cheaper for sure. How does the beam profile compare with the U2?

  7. #7
    Flashaholic* EngrPaul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    I love this flashlight. They did it right. The outputs and runtimes are the icing on the cake.

  8. #8
    Flashaholic* Phaserburn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    Great work, Chev! I probably should go back to previous threads, but wasn't the Huntlight supposed to be regulated even when using a single li-ion? It obviously isn't a high enough voltage to engage the circuitry. Not a terrible plot at all, but not the flat regulation when using 6V worth of primaries.
    The Phaser: A nice EDC with great throw; heat and runtime can be issues.

    Best Diffusion Film!

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* chevrofreak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    Yeah, not running in regulation on an 18650 is a bit of a disappointment to me, but it is still extremely bright.

    Someone needs to make some 18340's for these lights so you get the regulation of the higher voltage, and the higher capacity of an 18mm diameter cell. Might be able to make them as high as 1000mAh.

  10. #10
    Flashaholic* Phaserburn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    Or perhaps an extender to that 2 18500s can be used, ala Wolf Eyes.
    The Phaser: A nice EDC with great throw; heat and runtime can be issues.

    Best Diffusion Film!

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    I just charted mine last night on level 5, looks just like yours complete with the spike before the dropoff. Only difference is mine ran a tad longer than yours, maybe 5 minutes on the same cells. Thanks for doing the charts on the lower levels, something I wasn't ambitious enough to tackle....

    As a matter of interest, the current draw on mine is .690, .480, .342, .205, and .068ma. Lower than Huntlight says but I'm just replacing the tailcap with the DMM leads......is that the correct way to do it?

    Dan C
    Last edited by Dan C; 01-05-2007 at 11:17 AM.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    Sounds like the right way to me. Thanks for the graphs, Chevro! Wow that regulation- what regulation? Looks like resistors.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    If only it had regulation on the 18650 like it does with two 123 primary cells. I don't know why it doesn't considering that the original FT-01 did. Either way the runtimes are very impressive and the brightness is HUGE! Goodbye U2.

  14. #14
    *Flashaholic* greenLED's Avatar
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    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    Quote Originally Posted by LightBright
    Sounds like the right way to me. Thanks for the graphs, Chevro! Wow that regulation- what regulation? Looks like resistors.

    Yes, it's a pitty li-ions don't have high enough voltage to quick the regulator into action, but that doesn't mean the light is DD. There's no way DD can show a flat discharge curve like chev's getting with primaries.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    So it must be a buck converter that goes out of regulation below 5V or so. The prototype adjustable output converter I built for the 18650's has a totally flat output from beginning to end.
    Last edited by LightBright; 01-05-2007 at 02:58 PM.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    Judging by the runtime plots chevro did on the original FT-01 where running 2x R123As resulted in a very short runtime, the driver is likely a linear regulator (LDO). If it was a buck, the pulse width would have reduced enough running 2 Li-Ions that runtime would be higher. Perhaps Huntlight changed the LDO they're using in the FT-01 XR-E lights to one that needs more headroom. Regardless, still amazing output.

    I'm curious to see this compared to the upcoming Lumapower M1 XR-E version. And am fighting off the urge to pick one up now and wait for the Q3/Q4 bins to be more available and put as standard in the FT-01 and M1.
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  17. #17
    Flashaholic* chevrofreak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    Quote Originally Posted by jsr
    Judging by the runtime plots chevro did on the original FT-01 where running 2x R123As resulted in a very short runtime, the driver is likely a linear regulator (LDO). If it was a buck, the pulse width would have reduced enough running 2 Li-Ions that runtime would be higher. Perhaps Huntlight changed the LDO they're using in the FT-01 XR-E lights to one that needs more headroom. Regardless, still amazing output.

    I'm curious to see this compared to the upcoming Lumapower M1 XR-E version. And am fighting off the urge to pick one up now and wait for the Q3/Q4 bins to be more available and put as standard in the FT-01 and M1.
    The FT01PJ luxeon I tested ran 70 minutes in regulation with a pair of RCR123's. I don't see how it could be an LDO.

    An LG 2400mAh 18650 has about 8.2 watt-hours at 1 amp, while 2 RCR123's combined are about 4.4 watt-hours at 1/2 amp, and 2 CR123a's are about 7.5 watt-hours at 1/2 amp. That pretty much matches up with the runtimes for the FT01PJ, indicating that the circuit is putting most of that power to use instead of burning it up..


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    If it's a buck regulator, there would be a PWM (or PFM) control on it that would reduce the duty cycle proportional to the input voltage. Since 2x R123As is double the voltage of 1x 18650, the duty cycle should shrink (say by half as an example, but the relationship is not necessarily linear). Considering the reduction in duty cycle, I'd expect the runtime of 2x R123As to be better than what showed up in the tests, closer to 2/3rds the runtime of 1x 18650. If it's an LDO or other type of linear regulator, then a source with a third the capacity would be expected to only provide a third the runtime (with the rest of the voltage dissipated as heat). It just doesn't look right that at 7.4V, the runtime is so low if it's a buck regulator.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    Quote Originally Posted by jsr
    I'm curious to see this compared to the upcoming Lumapower M1 XR-E version. And am fighting off the urge to pick one up now and wait for the Q3/Q4 bins to be more available and put as standard in the FT-01 and M1.
    I too, am waiting for Lumapower's XR-E M1. Although I expect it to have similar performance and runtime as the FT-01, unless the M1 sports a Q bin, which is unlikely, as Ricky said the M1 will be available before the end of the month.

    I guess the current Luxeon based U2 is out of the race for the brightest/most versatile 2-cell tactical LED light then?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    I posted some speculation about that behavior in the announcement thread when folks started talking about using an 18650. Based on the actual results, the Cree is just being direct driven on the higher levels and just begins to get into regulation on the lower ones as the battery voltage drops.

    A lot depends on the actual Vf of the particular emitter and some might see better or worse results. The buck regulator should limit current on at at least the higher levels even with a very low Vf emitter.

    The buck regulator probably imposes a voltage drop which makes it even tougher to predict behavior without knowing how large it is even if you know the Vf vs current of the emitter.

    I'm still very impressed with the measured performance on an 18650 of Chevrofreak's tested light.

    Are 2 x RCR123 within the safe range of the electronics? I know it's not on some lights. You might wind up direct driving the LED (bad) or blowing the buck regulator really quickly (worse).

    I'd be really tempted if they hadn't put high first. I can't understand the current trend in that direction with lights with 100+ lumens high level output.

    Mike
    Last edited by Mike abcd; 01-05-2007 at 07:30 PM.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike abcd
    I'd be really tempted if they hadn't put high first. I can't understand the current trend in that direction with lights with 100+ lumens high level output.

    Mike
    I'm rather glad Huntlight designed the FT-01 to turn on at Max output; this enables the user to use the light in a tactical situation. Being that it's a 2-cell light, it's very unlikely it would be a EDC anyhow, so it wouldn't face many of the everyday scenarios that might require a barely noticeable amount of light at the first crank. If the user should need stealth over output in a tactical situation, then he can always use a sheath with a little screen-mesh hole in the bottom that will only let out a small amount of light for map reading, I think Spec Ops has one such sheath.

  22. #22
    Flashaholic* EngrPaul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    I agree with high-first being the best for this flashlight.

    If you don't want that much light, and don't want your night vision interrupted, just press the light against your leg while passing through the first few brighness levels.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    I'm very disappointed with this light on 18650s. I was seriously considering it until I saw those graphs.
    My mods: Huntlight FT-01 w/ Cree XR-E, Black Diamond Moonlight w/ Nichia CS LEDs, Streamlight Survivor LED w/ Seoul P4, SL PP 4AA Lux w/ Edison Edixeon Star, Lumapower M1 w/ Seoul P4, Pelican M3 w/ Cree XR-E star, SL Argo HP w/ Seoul P4, a penny and part of a copper pipe cap

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    Overall, I am impressed with this light. The multiple brightness levels are a great addition and if I need to take one light with me, it's a solid choice.

    The lack of regulation is a surprise although I doubt that the change would really be perceptible over 2 hours of use. And with 18650's, you can alway pop them back in the charger for a top-off.

    The things that could still be improved are:
    1). The crazy pocket clip, which is held on by security screws that I can't find a bit to remove!
    2). The lack of a good lanyard attachment point (and the slot in the pocket clip, while it can be used for a lanyard is awkward).
    3). Can't stand on it's tail for candle use. If the collar around the clickie were just slightly longer, problem solved.

    Also, I have 3 FT-01's (Black HAII T-bin, Nat HAIII U-bin and now XR-E) and the internal diameter on the barrel is different on every one. The latest with the XR-E does not fit an AW 18650 -- so I need to get one that does.
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  25. #25
    Flashaholic* EngrPaul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    I have the same wishes as diesel dad. I also wish for a texture to the reflector like the non-cree FT01.

  26. #26
    Flashaholic* chevrofreak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    If Huntlight would do a medium texture like heir regulat FT01 reflectors it would make the beam pretty much perfectly smooth and artifact free. Since it is so very simple to remove the reflector from this light it could easily be changed out by the end user. They either need to make it an option during purchase, or available for later installation.

    Huntlight, are you listening? Fenix and Lumapower are working on textured reflectors for their XR-E lights. You don't want to be left behind!

  27. #27
    Flashaholic* digitaleos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    Here are a couple of pictures of the lamp assembly taken apart. I thought I would post these since I haven't seen it posted before. If someone could find a textured reflector that would fit these assemblies that would be great. I wonder if the reflector off of one of the G&P LED drop-ins would work.





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  28. #28
    Flashaholic* EngrPaul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    Good pictures.

    If they use a textured reflector on the dimmer FT-01 luxeon!

    The only reason I could think they didn't use it on the Cree version was rushing to market with a new reflector, and the texturing would slow things down.

    I was very disappointed that the beam quality was not the same smoothness as the FT-01 due to lack of texturing, and I paid 3X for it.

  29. #29
    *Retired* NewBie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    Quote Originally Posted by jsr
    If it's a buck regulator, there would be a PWM (or PFM) control on it that would reduce the duty cycle proportional to the input voltage. Since 2x R123As is double the voltage of 1x 18650, the duty cycle should shrink (say by half as an example, but the relationship is not necessarily linear). Considering the reduction in duty cycle, I'd expect the runtime of 2x R123As to be better than what showed up in the tests, closer to 2/3rds the runtime of 1x 18650. If it's an LDO or other type of linear regulator, then a source with a third the capacity would be expected to only provide a third the runtime (with the rest of the voltage dissipated as heat). It just doesn't look right that at 7.4V, the runtime is so low if it's a buck regulator.

    Chevrofreak had mentioned this is a PWM dimmed light, and was noticeable especially on the lower ranges.

    What may be going on, is that they used a buck regulator that doesn't have 100% duty cycle abilities, and as such, will act like an efficient voltage divider, but dropping the regulated output voltage by a ratio from the input. This would lead to the unregulated constantly dropping output, when ran off 18650 of cell.

    For dimming, one simply switches the LED off and on with a switch, ran off the usually regulated output voltage, but in this case with the 18650 cells, the regulator is unable to regulate with such a low input voltage.

    Had it been a buck switcher that can go to 100% duty cycle, I would have expected to see it run flat in regulation for a good period of time, before the light output started to drop in the unregulated state.

    The dimming, being PWM, doesn't gain you any LED efficiency unfortunately.

    Any reason folks are trying to utilize 18650's with this light?

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

    Quote Originally Posted by NewBie
    <snip>

    Any reason folks are trying to utilize 18650's with this light?
    It is just nice to be able to use rechargable batteries. Lithium Ions, as you know, are light weight and hold a charge well. I own one of these flashlights and am disappointed in the graph for 18650's. I think Huntlight showed the 18650 as well as CR123's on their web site, but I guess they never really updated it for the XR-E, I just assumed it would be better, especially for $100.

    The FT-01XSE really is a fantastic flashlight in its own and has a good runtime curve for the 18650's.

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