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Thread: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

  1. #61

    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    What are the mAh capacities on the Rayovac Hybrid AAs?

  2. #62

    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightingguy321 View Post
    What are the mAh capacities on the Rayovac Hybrid AAs?
    I just noticed the Rayovac Hybrid 1AA four pack, at my local Ace Hardware, they were $12.99, and the capacity was listed as 2100 mAh.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    The Hybrid's are under $10 here at local Walmarts for a regular 4-pack. The capacity for the AA is 2100mah and the AAA are 800mah.

  4. #64

    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny13oi View Post
    The Hybrid's are under $10 here at local Walmarts for a regular 4-pack. The capacity for the AA is 2100mah and the AAA are 800mah.
    Is the capacity of the AA cells actually measurably greater than Eneloops, or are the Ray-O-Vac marketeers just more creative than Sanyo's?

    c_c

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    Quote Originally Posted by Curious_character View Post
    Is the capacity of the AA cells actually measurably greater than Eneloops, or are the Ray-O-Vac marketeers just more creative than Sanyo's?

    c_c
    Not really.
    eneloops analyzed with C9000:
    1923, 1920, 1953, 1950
    Hybrids:
    1970, 1980,1980, 1987
    For comparison, Energizer 2200 mAh bundled with their 15 minute charger:
    2241, 2249, 2245, 2243. Tight shot group.


  6. #66

    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    Great info on the batteries OVF...

    I just got a C9000, and it's excellent...still learning how to use it...seems to have rescued my Energizer 2500's that have been idle for the past 18 months.

  7. #67
    Enlightened oldvultureface's Avatar
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    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    Quote Originally Posted by TranquillityBase View Post
    I just got a C9000, and it's excellent...
    Also makes a great night light.


  8. #68

    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    Quote Originally Posted by oldvultureface View Post
    Not really.
    eneloops analyzed with C9000:
    1923, 1920, 1953, 1950
    Hybrids:
    1970, 1980,1980, 1987
    For comparison, Energizer 2200 mAh bundled with their 15 minute charger:
    2241, 2249, 2245, 2243. Tight shot group.
    How many cycles were on the Hybrids? I've read that the hybrids get a little better after a few cycles and that the Hybrids are tested to be about 100mah higher than Eneloops.

  9. #69
    Enlightened oldvultureface's Avatar
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    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny13oi View Post
    How many cycles were on the Hybrids? I've read that the hybrids get a little better after a few cycles and that the Hybrids are tested to be about 100mah higher than Eneloops.
    9.


  10. #70
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    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    My C9000 gave my Hybrids an average 2050 mAh and my Eneloops 1950 mAh.

    Obviously, YMMV.

  11. #71

    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    My brand new Titanium Enduros tested on my Maha c9000 after refresh cycle tested at well OVER 2100 mah, more like 2400 so I am assuming the 2100mah is after losing some charge due to storage. Any way I am very happy with them, just wish they were cheaper! Also the only place I was able to find them was at Amondo Tech. While they are a great co. a little competition might help the consumer. I have heard they are just re-labled Rayovac hybrids, any confirmation Wayne?

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    Sony are now selling AA LSD batteries in their CycleEnergy range (NH-AA-B4K). Rated at 2000mAh these are stamped Made in Japan so they are probably rebadged Eneloops.

  13. #73

    Arrow Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    Might want to add the Kodak Pre-Charged AA and AAA to the list -

    on Kodak USA web site -

    Kodak Pre-Charged



    They sell @$7.88 4pk from WalMart

    Couple of threads here on the Kodak Pre-Charged -

    new Kodac "Pre Charged" NiMH batteries?

    Kodak Pre-Charged NiMH

    Chevrofreak tested the Kodak Pre-Charged, and seems to think well of them -
    ref: Post #15 in this thread - My Eneloops charge to and hold a higher voltage than other LSD's
    and -
    Posts #13 and #14 in new Kodac "Pre Charged" NiMH batteries?

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    OK, here's another - Hahnel Synergy:
    http://www.hahnel.ie/index.cfm?actio...group&mbid=233
    Firmware Developer for the UltraSmartCharger: Open Source Charger/Analyzer for NiMH/NiCad/NiZn batteries.
    http://www.ultrasmartcharger.com

  15. #75
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    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    I wonder why the Hahnels and some others are only rechargeable up to 500 times and the Eneloops and others are up to 1000. I realize these are both optimistic marketing ploys but still, seems kind of like a no brainer since the price for all of them are basically the same. Wouldn't you go with a cell you can supposedly charge 1000 times over a cell only giving you around 500? Just kinda wondered about this. Doug
    Grateful friend of Bill W.

  16. #76
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    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    I have now updated the list of "LSD-cells" in the first post in this thread.
    I am sorry for the delay! Still using the Eneloops I bougt from CPC in the UK and I could not have been more saticfied. /LRE

  17. #77
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    Wink2 Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"



    Just want to inform you that The PowerBase Instant Battery is being sold at ACE hardware stores and SM Workshops (Philippines) for 995.00 PHP (that's roughly 22.00 USD).

    You get:
    - 4 x AA 2100 mAh
    - 4 x AA 800 mAh
    - Standard Overnight Charger

    In my opinion this one's a steal, and some shops sell the Sanyo Eneloop at insane prices (132.00 USD for a charger and 2 x AA's)

  18. #78

    Arrow Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    SilverFox/Tom in another thread mentioned -

    Radio Shack Pre-Charged.


    web page claims -

    "- Last about 500 charging cycles, reducing the number of batteries dscarded into the environment
    - 1.2V/2000mAh capacity
    - Hold approximately 80% of their charge for a full year"

    Priced at $19.99 for pack of 4
    that sounds really expensive -
    more than double for most other LSD AA prices.

  19. #79
    Flashaholic Yenster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    Quote Originally Posted by LRE View Post
    LSD vs NiMH(std.)/Alkaline
    Thanks to a higher voltage an Eneloop AA with 2000mAh should equal to ~2500 mAh and then you get the low self discharge on top of that.
    See www.eneloop.ca/eneloop_en_why.html#higher

    Example: Take a Powerex 2700 mAh and compare with Eneloop 2000 mAh. P2700 is one of the best high capacity cells but it has a self discharge of ~3%/day (80mAh) Eneloop has due to higher voltage a performance equal to a ~2500 mAh (manufac. data) and just a few mAh/day in self discharge.
    I question this claim by Sanyo regarding the higher voltage of the Eneloops. I can't find any voltage specs higher than 1.2V, and for Sanyo's claim to be true, these Eneloops must be 1.5V...which I believe is impossible for NiMH batteries.

    Anyone have more thoughts on this claim by Sanyo?

  20. #80

    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    Quote Originally Posted by Yenster View Post
    I question this claim by Sanyo regarding the higher voltage of the Eneloops. I can't find any voltage specs higher than 1.2V, and for Sanyo's claim to be true, these Eneloops must be 1.5V...which I believe is impossible for NiMH batteries.

    Anyone have more thoughts on this claim by Sanyo?
    "1.2" and "1.5" volts aren't specs, but nominal voltages. The actual voltage changes with load and as the battery discharges. Here are graphs of an Eneloop and two Sanyo 2300 mAh cells, one old and one new. As you can see, the Eneloop voltage is higher than the old 2300 and lower than the new one, for most of the discharge period. This is of course a test of only three cells, so can't be used to draw any general conclusions about Eneloop voltage -- except that not all Eneloop cells have higher voltage than all other NiMH cells.

    Anyone who has a concept of a battery as a constant voltage source should read this.

    c_c

  21. #81
    Flashaholic Yenster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    Quote Originally Posted by Curious_character View Post
    "1.2" and "1.5" volts aren't specs, but nominal voltages. The actual voltage changes with load and as the battery discharges. Here are graphs of an Eneloop and two Sanyo 2300 mAh cells, one old and one new. As you can see, the Eneloop voltage is higher than the old 2300 and lower than the new one, for most of the discharge period. This is of course a test of only three cells, so can't be used to draw any general conclusions about Eneloop voltage -- except that not all Eneloop cells have higher voltage than all other NiMH cells.

    Anyone who has a concept of a battery as a constant voltage source should read this.

    c_c
    Well actually, 1.2 and 1.5 are specs...they're the specified nominal voltages. It doesn't seem you understood the question (and it has nothing to do with the concept of a battery as a constant voltage source).

    I'm questioning Sanyo's claim that their 2000mAh Eneloops are as powerful as 2500mAh NiMh batteries. How could that be true unless the Eneloops had a nominal voltage of 1.5V...and that can't be true (as seen in the graphs that you've provided). So I was just wondering if anyone has seen evidence to back-up Sanyo's claim.
    Last edited by Yenster; 10-13-2007 at 11:28 PM.

  22. #82
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    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    Quote Originally Posted by Yenster View Post
    I'm questioning Sanyo's claim that their 2000mAh Eneloops are as powerful as 2500mAh NiMh batteries. How could that be true unless the Eneloops had a nominal voltage of 1.5V...and that can't be true (as seen in the graphs that you've provided). So I was just wondering if anyone has seen evidence to back-up Sanyo's claim.
    I can't say with certainty, but maybe they're basing the claim on the basis that a lot of cells that are rated at 2500 mAh are overrated and if the 2500 mAh cell has lower voltage under load, the device may shut down before it is fully discharged.

    Combined with a higher voltage during discharge, it's quite possible that a 2000 mAh rated Eneloop could last longer than a lot of 2500 mAh rated cell in some devices.

    If the device in use will discharge the cells to a sufficiently low voltage or the 2500 mAh cell is of decent quality, it's still likely that the 2500 mAh cell will last longer than the Eneloop. (Assuming that self discharge hasn't played a part)
    Firmware Developer for the UltraSmartCharger: Open Source Charger/Analyzer for NiMH/NiCad/NiZn batteries.
    http://www.ultrasmartcharger.com

  23. #83
    Flashaholic* LEDninja's Avatar
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    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    Pure Energy NiMH Pre Charged
    C$12 at WallMart Canada for AAA4
    RayOvac Hybrids are C$14

    The Source by Circuit City still wants C$30 for a 4 pack of Eneloops

  24. #84

    Arrow Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    Quote Originally Posted by Yenster View Post
    I question this claim by Sanyo regarding the higher voltage of the Eneloops. I can't find any voltage specs higher than 1.2V, and for Sanyo's claim to be true, these Eneloops must be 1.5V...which I believe is impossible for NiMH batteries.
    Interesting thoughts about LSD battery voltage level maintenance.

    In Post #49 (link) over at the PentaxForums for use of LSD (Uniross Hybrio) and NiMH (Energizer 2500mAh) in a Pentax K100D - a dSLR that's pretty sensitive to batteries - it's in a thread called -K100D - "Low-Battery" Problem

    QUOTED here:
    "I'll just add a few facts as measured with my particular K100D........

    Battery meter shows full charge at > 1.25v per cell, i.e. >5.00v
    Battery meter shows half charge at 1.25v per cell, i.e. 5.00v
    Battery meter shows empty and camera shuts down at 1.19v per cell, i.e. 4.76v

    I'm an electronics engineer and took great care in taking these readings by the way, it's very easy to get it wrong. Other K100Ds could be a bit different of course, and temperature may be a factor possibly, I'm not going to repeat these measurements to find out.

    As far as batteries are concerned, Uniross Hybrios are SO EASY to live with, I get 5-600 shots over just about any period of time I'm ever likely to leave them in the camera and they outlasted a friend's Canon 5D Li-On batteries at the same airshow and I took more pictures, so where's the problem? I've about 9 months experience with these batteries, they're great.

    Energizer 2500mAh (Sanyo manufactured) NiMh batteries last for 900 shots if used the same day as charging, but may only get 2-300 after a week or two. Now, I've measured the remaining capacity of Energizers after a 2 week rest, and it's hardly dropped at all, what's happened is that the voltage has depressed to a level where the K100D cutoff voltage is approached, so only a couple of hundred shots max is likely whereas there's actually plenty of charge in them for 2 or 3 times that. So, when the K100D says they're flat there's actually 75% of the charge remaining. Hybrios' voltage doesn't depress so much after a rest period so still can deliver most of their charge into a K100D."

    Another CPF thread with the same theme -

    My Eneloops charge to and hold a higher voltage than other LSD's

  25. #85
    Flashaholic Yenster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    Quote Originally Posted by UnknownVT View Post
    Interesting thoughts about LSD battery voltage level maintenance.

    In Post #49 (link) over at the PentaxForums for use of LSD (Uniross Hybrio) and NiMH (Energizer 2500mAh) in a Pentax K100D - a dSLR that's pretty sensitive to batteries - it's in a thread called -K100D - "Low-Battery" Problem

    Another CPF thread with the same theme -

    My Eneloops charge to and hold a higher voltage than other LSD's
    My interpretation of all this...different brands of NiMh batteries, whether LSD or not, will exhibit slightly different characteristics. One may be better suited than another depending on the application. I'm sure each will claim better performance over another to their advantage. So YMMV, depending on your combination of needs regarding short term capacity, long shelf life, minimum voltage cut-off, high-drain circuits, total slow-drain power, or simply price points.

    I'll probably just stick to my Rayovac Hybrids (though not claiming they're better than all others). Thanks.

  26. #86
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    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    Here's another - Enekeep:
    http://www.enekeep.com

    I wonder how they came up with that name?
    Firmware Developer for the UltraSmartCharger: Open Source Charger/Analyzer for NiMH/NiCad/NiZn batteries.
    http://www.ultrasmartcharger.com

  27. #87

    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    Quote Originally Posted by Power Me Up View Post
    Here's another - Enekeep:
    http://www.enekeep.com

    I wonder how they came up with that name?
    What's even worse is the blatant page title:
    < title >ENEKEEP-eneloop< /title >

  28. #88

    Default Stable Voltage for Eneloops

    Quote Originally Posted by Yenster View Post
    I question this claim by Sanyo regarding the higher voltage of the Eneloops. I can't find any voltage specs higher than 1.2V, and for Sanyo's claim to be true, these Eneloops must be 1.5V...which I believe is impossible for NiMH batteries.

    Anyone have more thoughts on this claim by Sanyo?
    I had charged 16 AA Eneloops and 8 AAA Eneloops last week. I have 8 of each in storage and am using 8 AA's in instruments. Today the stable median voltage for the stored groups are: AA - 1.353V and AAA - 1.364V. I tested with a Radio Shack Micronta Digital Multimeter. I charged them last week with a LaCrosse BC-900 using Test Mode (charge/discharge/charge) using 500 mA Charge/250 mA Discharge for the AA's and 200 mA Charge and 100 mA Discharge for the AAA's.
    Last edited by Mitch470; 10-24-2007 at 07:54 AM.

  29. #89

    Default Eneloop prices

    Quote Originally Posted by LEDninja View Post
    Pure Energy NiMH Pre Charged
    C$12 at WallMart Canada for AAA4
    RayOvac Hybrids are C$14

    The Source by Circuit City still wants C$30 for a 4 pack of Eneloops
    Amazon.com is selling an 8 pack of AA Eneloops today (Oct 24, 2007) for $ 19.99 new and $ 14.55 used.

  30. #90
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    Default Re: Batteries with low self discharge "LSD"

    Even better, at Amazon is the 4 pack of AA for $9.39. Get two of these packs for a total price of $18.78 ($1.21 cheaper than buying the 8 pack).

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