Surefire Justification Question

This isn't easy. I direct several department heads in a tax supported facility. My security supervisor has purchased several Steamlight stingers for his men. For himself he purchased a Surefire e1. Due to the expense he has been asked for justification of the expenditure.

I've no problem with the Streamlight justification. They are bright and small and good quality lights for the men in the field. For himself he tries to justify it as an executive light of good quality that he can use tactically in a stealthlike manner. It has been pointed out to him that the round beam isn't justified. He could have purchase many small lights as bright or brighter. He didn't need to spend that much money on the excessive quality aluminum and impressive looks. There are many small flashlights he could have purchased to carry in his pocket. He is up for discipline for his poor judgement.

He provided this site as the place to ask about justification of the great expense of a Surefire e1. He's a member of your group. I don't know if he just reads or participates. I don't know his handle.

How about it? What justification can you offer. The man is a personal friend. I'd rather not place him on suspension.

Wanderer

Take his E1 away. And get him a real light. Like M3.

If I were a security supervisor, I'd have AT LEAST an E2. The only question in my mind is why he didn't spend just a few more dollars for a truly bright, small light.

Without knowing just what this person does with a light for a living, it is a tough call. But if I needed a bright light to use in my line of work, I wouldn't even blink at buying a Surefire. Or two. Maybe more....

Well, lets see.

Always in focus unlike Streamlight Scorpion so valuable time isn't lost focusing when light is needed.

One uses 1 CR123A battery and burns for 90 minutes! This reason alone cuts down on battery costs because the competition uses 2 batteries and last less than 1 hour!! Huge depatment operation cost savings!

E1 is smaller & lighter so if it is dropped it is much less likely to sustain damage!

Oh, and looks do matter. Do you think it would be ok if you showed up to work unshaven & holes in your pants! When you wear a surefire, you are showing you mean business, no compromises. Just like your work ethic!

Perhaps you should promote him for his foresight and good taste, plus evident appreciation of engineered-in well designed reliability. To sum up - Quality in Depth.

A Streamlight is "good enough". But to impress your customers, a SureFire is a "good thing", self-justifying.
The PR function of a supervisor magically producing a quality light from seemingly out of nowhere is good for the company's image.

I don't think that any light of comparable size to the E1/E1e has the same light output. And of course, the purity of a SureFire beam is as useful as a "normal" beam of twice the power.

With the portability of an E1, he is never off-duty, because it will be an irresistibly good EDC.

Note that he did not indulge in an M2 or M3 or M6, any or all of which are valued flashlights of notable expense.
Thuswise, he is: Discriminating, Not Incriminating.
The less expensive of the many great SureFire choices available - obviously he's a man of responsibility and tact.

A Stinger is a good light, but how about you sell them to a 911 Surplus store and buy everyone a SureFire instead.
It would improve the company's image and performance.
Otherwise, I'd say he was a man of keen judgement working hard for a company which can demonstrate that they appreciate a worker who looks just a little further ahead.

lightlover

Placing a "supervisor" on suspension for buying a, what, $40-50 flashlight?

If he really is in charge of "security", then as long as he's not asking pk and Peter G to custom engineer flashlights, any "off the shelf" purchase, especially of surefire quality lights are to be welcomed.

He may not have need to use it every day, or every month, even. (He may be deskbound) The Surefire E series is the way to go. Lithiums give eternal shelflife and adequate run time, and the E1 gives a high brightness for the size.

And, what's this bullcrap about round beams? Which flashlight doesn't have round beams? (Would you like to borrow my hydraulic jack to remove your foot from your mouth?)

--Phil

(who's had bosses like this)

If you like to save some money, consider stuffing jackets with shedded newspaper instead of expensive bullet proof vests,

Blanks instead of real bullets (So much cheaper)

Inert canisters of CS spray at 1/3rd the price

Attack cats instead of attack dogs. (They eat less)

Tell your supervisor that his supervisor (you) is a bloomin' idiot.

I would really need to know what function the light serves in the work environment. If the output of the E1 is sufficient for his job then I have to say he made the right decision. As small as it is he will always have it with him. It's also very economical in terms of Lithium batteries. Longest run time on least amount of batteries for a non-LED light.
If the purchase cannot be justified then I say take the light away, sell it on this forum (first dibs) and get him the same light as the other workers. It certainly does not warrant a suspension in my opinion. He's a friend of yours so sit him down and explain why his actions were wrong. But do not take disciplinary action as it won't solve the problem and could ruin a friendship.

You should borrow the light from him and check it out. It really is a marvel. Maybe everybody should have one.

I'm extremely skeptical as to the credibility of the original poster. People don't get "suspended" from their jobs for buying $40-50 lights. Geez where I work, we buy several hundred, into the thousands of dollars worth of CAD software programs (per license) but always with many layers of approval before the purchase is made.

I think our legs are being pulled but personally, I'd give him a stern verbal warning and ask why didn't he spend ten dollars more for an E2.

Wanderer,

Welcome to Candle Power Forums...

I have read your inquiry, and the six or seven replies that follow, and it seems that a few issues have not been addressed.

You stated:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He could have purchase many small lights as bright or brighter. He didn't need to spend that much money on the excessive quality aluminum and impressive looks. There are many small flashlights he could have purchased to carry in his pocket. He is up for discipline for his poor judgement. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is no other light, of the same physical size, that can match the luminosity of the E1 (15 lumens). The light output of the E1 exceeds a standard 2 d-cell flashlight. You have noted, "there are many small flashlights he could have purchased to carry in his pocket". No doubt true, but none have the same performance characteristics or reliability of the E1.

Since the E1 series became available a year+ ago, myself, like many on this board, carry it 24/7... I could never imagine carrying a 2D flashlight with me at all times of the day.

I would like to close by saying this.. regardless of the price, the best flashlight is the one that gets used, and the Ei is just such a light and hardly think this is shows poor judgement.

Where can I purchase a streamlight stinger for less than the cost of the E1?

Everywhere I have looked so far, the stinger is a lot more expensive.(3 times more expensive where I usually buy my torches from). this gives me the exact opposite problem to the thread starter.

Alan.

thell the admin. to look at this thread. enough said.... , suspention is silly, bad administration,bad.

It is very hard to make any comment as to whether the purchase was justified, without knowing specifically what the E1 is to be used for. Like any tool, it is suitable for some tasks and not others.

Based on the tone of your post, it seems you feel that this person purchased the Surefire because it was 'cool' rather than for pure practicability. That is very hard to say without knowing the person in question. I myself own a Surefire E2, and while it is 'cool', it is also a very practical light which I use on a daily basis. I don't know of any other light which could compare to it. The same goes for the E1.
But as I said, the right tool for the right job. Without knowing what it will be used for, I don't think it is possible to give any plain justification for it, beyond it being a very well engineered, practical, well supported light.

The purchasing process in your organisation seems a bit odd to me, but I'm in no position to make any judgement of that.

Graham

Wanderer:

It is apparently not a problem for many of your people carry an 8" long flashlight, presumably in a holster.

Perhaps a holster is inconvenient for your "friend" and a small 2.5 oz light that clips to his pocket, etc. makes a lot more sense given his work.

I am among those whose EDC carry is an inobtrusive and convenient E2. A smaller, dimmer E1 could be more appropriate for daytime task lighting (lower constrast) inspection of close-up items in dim locations.

This story reminds me of what happened in Elmsford, New York in the late 1970's when a man named Arthur Lorch purchased the Sonotone Hearing Aid Company. Arthur promulgated a policy that all purchases had to be approved by him.

The head of the HR department (Personnel Department in those days)who also happened to by the Mayor of Elmsford made an emergency purchase of a $5.00 U.S. Flag so Sonotone could fly the flag on the Fourth of July.

Arthur Lorch fired the Mayor for this act of "insubordination" early the next week. The New York Times and other Eastern Seabord companies had a field day with this act of enlightened management.

Over the decades I've forgotten the name of the fired Mayor, but I'll never forget Arthur Lorch even though I've never so much as seen his picture.

Having said the preceding, I agree with the other comments to the effect that the man's job content and the physical appearance he is expected to maintain should be considered.

ted bear- you said =
There is no other light, of the same physical size, that can match the luminosity of the E1 (15 lumens). The light output of the E1 exceeds a standard 2 d-cell flashlight. You have noted, "there are many small flashlights he could have purchased to carry in his pocket".

i feel i must inform you that the red arcsls i have is over 25 lum and much smaller than the e1 when the 123 pack is used. the red orange ls will be over 55 lum.

also i must say that anyone who looks at a surefire and says "too expencive and not worthwhile" is either a fool or a liar. promote this guy fast- hes the only one on your end who knows anything.

It almost sounds like the E1 criticism may have been a smokescreen. I would tactfully ask for some specific details.

What I think is that the problem is you think he bought the E1 for unpractical reasons and rather for "coolness". Have you ever tried the E1? and also if you can justify the SL Stinger, this leads me to wonder if you've really tested the E1 extensively. Although the E1 is slightly less light output than the Stinger, it matches it's performance with quality build and extremely small size. Please do not think the E1 is like a mini-maglite. First time people are exposed to Surefire, they think the light is cheaper or just a higher quality maglite 2AA, which I'm sure by now you know it's not at all. In fact the E1 is as strong as a 2 Cell Maglite, which itself is bright. For security reasons, a Surefire E1 fits the bill perhaps even better than the Stingers as you should note Stingers are double in price or more.

I'm not sure what his duties are, but I'm sure him picking a E1 was a knowledged and educated decision, just make sure you know what an E1 can do before passing judgements. Perhaps you might even consider issuing everyone an E1 or something.

What I have problem is understanding how you say you have no problems with Stingers but have a problem with the E1, the E1 is such a better package than the Stingers...you should question him why he didn't get all Surefires instead........that's my 2 cents.

You know what? on second thought.....for the same price, buy them all Surefire G2 Nitrolons!!.......even better of a package.....

So, is any of this great info being read? Are we all fools for responding?

Tell us please: For what tasks does this person use a light? Knowing that, we'll be able to come up with a bunch MORE reasons why the E1 was a good choice...or tell you why he maybe should have considered a bigger one.

- Darell

D and the rest:

I'm afraid they are looking to crucify him... and the E1 was just an excuse...

PS: I worked for a "Tax Supported Facility" too, and every single big expense was "questioned"... It made me sick that someone who had no knowledge of the job could pass judgement on what was "necessary".

E1 buyer: Believe me, Wanderer is NO friend of yours...

I may be even more skeptical than Alchemist. The post doesn't make sense to me. Who exactly is threatening this man with suspension? Not the people who asked him to justify the expense, but you yourself. You would actually suspend your friend ie: deprive him of his livlihood for saving the company money by purchasing a cheaper light. Even the most skinflint of non-profits would never object to saving money. If this post is legitimate, then please forgive me for being rude, but I don't feel comfortable sharing this wonderful forum with someone who is capable of such action.

But since the post is so absurd and internally contradictory I'll assume that it's a belated April Fools joke gone awry and give you my.....

Best regards,
Brightnorm