500,000 + Watts, WOW!
- Thread starter SilverFox
- Start date
Help Support Candle Power Flashlight Forum
David_Campen
Enlightened
What is this A123 battery that can deliver 169 amps?
Edit:
I found the datasheet. They specify 40 amp continuous discharge, 120 amp for 10 seconds. This is certainly impressive. I wonder when they will be available for retail purchase?
Edit:
I found the datasheet. They specify 40 amp continuous discharge, 120 amp for 10 seconds. This is certainly impressive. I wonder when they will be available for retail purchase?
Last edited:
Illum
Flashaholic
what i find most surprising was after numerous racings the battery "kept comin back for more....we didnt have to replace any of the 880 A123 batteries..."
mmm, something tells me these cells can be of use in this "lumen society"
this gives you a good idea what 880 A123 cells might have looked like
Literature: http://www.a123systems.com/html/tech/power.html
Single cell: http://www.evworld.com/images/a123_csize.jpg
Cell assembly: http://hybrids-plus.com/pmwiki/uploads/Ext/welding2.jpg
Cell assembly source [more pics]: http://hybrids-plus.com/pmwiki/index.php?n=Ext.GalleryVehicles
mmm, something tells me these cells can be of use in this "lumen society"
this gives you a good idea what 880 A123 cells might have looked like
Literature: http://www.a123systems.com/html/tech/power.html
Single cell: http://www.evworld.com/images/a123_csize.jpg
Cell assembly: http://hybrids-plus.com/pmwiki/uploads/Ext/welding2.jpg
Cell assembly source [more pics]: http://hybrids-plus.com/pmwiki/index.php?n=Ext.GalleryVehicles
Last edited:
65535
Flashlight Enthusiast
I'll let you in on a secret, these cells can be had, no joke all you have to do is buy dewalt 36 volts rechargable battery packs, they ocntain these cells. 
matrixshaman
Flashlight Enthusiast
Yeah! Very impressive!
"able to pulse at discharge rates as high as 100C and deliver over 3000W/kg, over an order of magnitude better than conventional Lithium-Ion cells and with their low impedance and thermally conductive design, A123 cells can be continuously discharged to 100% depth of discharge at 35C rate, a marked improvement over all other rechargeable battery alternatives."
Yes Dewalt uses nanotech batteries but at around $200+ per 36 volt battery I don't think I'll be buying any soon. But someone could let this company - A123 - know there is a big hot to buy market for their batteries if they'd start cranking out CR123 size cells or some common size. I imagine sometime we'll see these in lights but I just might have to drop them a message about another hot market beside vehicles.
"able to pulse at discharge rates as high as 100C and deliver over 3000W/kg, over an order of magnitude better than conventional Lithium-Ion cells and with their low impedance and thermally conductive design, A123 cells can be continuously discharged to 100% depth of discharge at 35C rate, a marked improvement over all other rechargeable battery alternatives."
Yes Dewalt uses nanotech batteries but at around $200+ per 36 volt battery I don't think I'll be buying any soon. But someone could let this company - A123 - know there is a big hot to buy market for their batteries if they'd start cranking out CR123 size cells or some common size. I imagine sometime we'll see these in lights but I just might have to drop them a message about another hot market beside vehicles.
Josey
Flashlight Enthusiast
"Wow!" is a bit of understatement.
65535
Flashlight Enthusiast
They are 65 mm long and 23 mm diamter, thinking a C size mag or something :naughty:
going rate is about $20 a cell.
going rate is about $20 a cell.
matrixshaman
Flashlight Enthusiast
65535 - do you know where you can get individual cells of these?
65535
Flashlight Enthusiast
A123 cells them in quanitities of 6 6 for 129 or 12+ for 110 per set of 6.
2xTrinity
Flashlight Enthusiast
Wow. 500kW (670 horsepower) in a motorcycle is an unbelievable amount of power, especially considering how electric motors don't have to "wind up" to a certain RPM to deliver maximum torque, and you don't have any losses due to gearshifting. For comparison The Tesla roadster (a 2-seater car) has a max of around 180kW and can go from 0-60 in 4 seconds.
Those batteries are awesome though, they would be ideal for hybrid cars (much better than premium NiMH) for rapid charging (braking) and rapid discharging (accelerating).
As far as lighting applications for these things... anyone up for a 400W HID flashlight? Next time someone says their 3D Maglite is brighter than yours, you can answer with 35,000 lumens
Those batteries are awesome though, they would be ideal for hybrid cars (much better than premium NiMH) for rapid charging (braking) and rapid discharging (accelerating).
As far as lighting applications for these things... anyone up for a 400W HID flashlight? Next time someone says their 3D Maglite is brighter than yours, you can answer with 35,000 lumens
WoW, these are amazing.
ViReN
Flashlight Enthusiast
not only that... they are lighter in weight too (as compared with NiMH)
so more on efficiency/weight....mzzj
Newly Enlightened
Suprisingly cheap.65535 said:
I did some googling if RC-guys have noticed these already as RC-planes are probably one of the most challenging uses. Yeap, sure they have been racing with these cells already for a year or something. Found also even cheaper source for these cells, 15.5$ per cell. http://www.modelelectronicscorp.com/price-list.html#loosecells
Charge times (5min) are something amazing improvement over current technologies like li-po cells.
Last edited:
mzzj
Newly Enlightened
Buying and dissecting dewalt 36v battery pack from Ebay seems to be cheapest source, around $100 for 10 cells. Too cheap!
65535
Flashlight Enthusiast
By far 36v dewalt packs are the cheapest and if you savy you can even use that charger.
Currently A123 cells sell for $1.32/wh and they have about 1/2 the energy density/volume of cobalt based lithium ion. Currently the demand has raised the cost of A123 to twice that cobalt based Lithium ion per wh and they have 1/2 the energy density. However they can produce an order of magnitude more amps and are much more safe, hence applications that require high power such as power tools.
The cost issue is only because of supply and demand. It is actually cheaper to make lithium phosphate based chemistry batteries because the ingredients are much cheaper and safer to work with. The energy density can be improved and expect future li phosphate 26650 cells to reach 3000mah.
Inside the A123 cell design has a long strip of cathode, electrolyte, and anode tightly wound like toilet paper on a toilet roll. All they have to do is change the width and roll a strip longer or shorter to make a roll the correct size to fit any cylindrical battery size out there CR122, C, D, whatever. However it cost millions of dollars to set up a production line for a certain cell size. Don't expect your favorite battery size any time soon.
The price is set high because they are a start up. Once the economies of scale kick in, there is no reason these types of cells can sell for 40 to 50 cents per watt hour in the future.
However there is a fundamental problem in the future if all cars in the world are to be converted to electric based on lithium chemistry batteries. There is not enough high grade lithium ore reserves to supply all the lithium needed to build all those batteries. This alone will keep the price of lithium based batteries high.
http://www.thestar.com/article/175800
The cost issue is only because of supply and demand. It is actually cheaper to make lithium phosphate based chemistry batteries because the ingredients are much cheaper and safer to work with. The energy density can be improved and expect future li phosphate 26650 cells to reach 3000mah.
Inside the A123 cell design has a long strip of cathode, electrolyte, and anode tightly wound like toilet paper on a toilet roll. All they have to do is change the width and roll a strip longer or shorter to make a roll the correct size to fit any cylindrical battery size out there CR122, C, D, whatever. However it cost millions of dollars to set up a production line for a certain cell size. Don't expect your favorite battery size any time soon.
The price is set high because they are a start up. Once the economies of scale kick in, there is no reason these types of cells can sell for 40 to 50 cents per watt hour in the future.
However there is a fundamental problem in the future if all cars in the world are to be converted to electric based on lithium chemistry batteries. There is not enough high grade lithium ore reserves to supply all the lithium needed to build all those batteries. This alone will keep the price of lithium based batteries high.
http://www.thestar.com/article/175800
LightBright
Enlightened
Cool! A HIGH CURRENT Lithium Ion! The 26650's are rated at 2.3 Amp Hours per cell (similar to a regular Li-Ion). So at 40 amps, you won't get much runtime....
