Any battery experts out there? Sometimes, car hesitates, then starts. Most of the tim

viorel00

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Hi, I have a Civic 97 that I purchased use 2 years ago. I know it does not run on the OEM battery, I assume it has been replace once and now it's about time to get a new battery, but I am not sure. Here is what happens:

the car starts fine most of the time. Even two weeks ago when it was very cold, it started fine. Sometimes though, it hesitates, the starter turns the engine just fine (it seems) but it takes 5-6 seconds for the engine to start, usually it takes ~2 seconds.

Last night it did it again, this time it looks like everything went dead, I couldn't even hear the starter turning, I though Oh Boy, and when I was about to give up, the engine started and then it run just fine all the way home. This morning I measure the voltage BEFORE starting the engine, 12.64 V, then with engine running 14.57 V. I am no battery expert, but a quick search on the net seems to indicate the battery it not dead yet.

What other test shall I do? I will probably go in the weekend to one of those places that sell (and test batteries), but anything else I should try tomorrow morning or evening?

yes, I should open the hood and look at the manufacturing date on the battery, but in the morning I am usually late, and in the evening it is dark. So I have to wait till Saturday for that. Or I should get a Flashlight, after all this is what the forum is all about!

Thanks
 

Brighteyez

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Re: Any battery experts out there? Sometimes, car hesitates, then starts. Most of the tim

Sounds like a problem with the starter. From what you've described it sounds like the battery is fine.
 

matrixshaman

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Re: Any battery experts out there? Sometimes, car hesitates, then starts. Most of the tim

I'm fairly sure you do NOT have a battery problem based on your info. Also most batteries will have a date code and nearly every car battery I've had lasted 5 years + or - 6 months or so. Check your battery cables, connections, corrosion, solenoid. It somewhat sounds like a solenoid but not enough info.
 

oldvultureface

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Re: Any battery experts out there? Sometimes, car hesitates, then starts. Most of the tim

Battery voltage is ok and the alternator (engine running) is right where it should be at 14.5 volts. Check the battery terminals for corrosion. Remove the terminals and clean them and the battery posts with a wire brush and apply WD-40 to the posts and terminals before reattaching them. Remove the negative (-) terminal first. If you try to remove the positive terminal with the negative still connected you could weld your wrench to the car or worse blow the top off the battery! The long (5 second) starting time puzzles me though. Could be an intermittent fuel pump glitch.
 

viorel00

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Re: Any battery experts out there? Sometimes, car hesitates, then starts. Most of the tim

yes, I forgot to mention, the starter turns the engine over, but it takes 3-4 seconds longer than usual for the engine to start.

I posted the same questions on a different forum and the suggested cleaning the terminals (which I will do soon) and also checking the ignition system, i.e. rotor, spark plugs, etc.

Also I am gonna get the battery tested to one of those places like AutoZone.

I will look into all these things. Thanks guys
 

Bullzeyebill

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When you are not sure about the age of the battery and you have starting problems, the easierst thing to do is assume it is the battery and change it out. I've been through several hundred thouand pounds of cars, and 99% of the time is is the battery. Todays cars, including 1997's, put quite a demand on the batteries, with a lot of stuff running when car engine is turned off. That coupled with cold weather can finish off an older battery. Just change it out. Batteries are reasonably priced, Costco, and other outlets have very decent prices. Switch it out then if you have problems you have ruled out the battery. I know that people will recommend this and that, test this and that, but believe me, it most likely is the battery. Good luck.

Bill
 
L

LITEmania

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Re: Any battery experts out there? Sometimes, car hesitates, then starts. Most of the tim

viorel00 said:
yes, I forgot to mention, the starter turns the engine over, but it takes 3-4 seconds longer than usual for the engine to start.

I posted the same questions on a different forum and the suggested cleaning the terminals (which I will do soon) and also checking the ignition system, i.e. rotor, spark plugs, etc.

Also I am gonna get the battery tested to one of those places like AutoZone.

I will look into all these things. Thanks guys

I have experienced similiar trouble and it was found that my spark plugs worn out. I changed all 6 plugs of my Honda Legend.

warren,
 

Brighteyez

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Good point, he doesn't seem to be sure whether the battery is original or not. If it is the original battery then it won't hurt to replace it. A '97 could very well be running on the battery from the factory. I've routinely gotten close to 10 years on the original batteries, probably just from living in a temperate climate (we won't count the snow on the hills this morning :) )

And if he doesn't have a Costco membership, batteries at Wal*Mart are only about $30 for many cars.


Bullzeyebill said:
When you are not sure about the age of the battery and you have starting problems, the easierst thing to do is assume it is the battery and change it out. I've been through several hundred thouand pounds of cars, and 99% of the time is is the battery. Todays cars, including 1997's, put quite a demand on the batteries, with a lot of stuff running when car engine is turned off. That coupled with cold weather can finish off an older battery. Just change it out. Batteries are reasonably priced, Costco, and other outlets have very decent prices. Switch it out then if you have problems you have ruled out the battery. I know that people will recommend this and that, test this and that, but believe me, it most likely is the battery. Good luck.

Bill
 

65535

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Re: Any battery experts out there? Sometimes, car hesitates, then starts. Most of the tim

Can you check the voltage under the starter load, with the help of a friend of course. Althought if the starter is turning over fine, I would consider a fuel and or electronic ignition problem. I would personally take it to a shop and see if you can get a free check, but I'm sure others on here or another car based forum could offer more assitance.
 

wptski

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Re: Any battery experts out there? Sometimes, car hesitates, then starts. Most of the tim

If you have a DMM that does min/max record or have somebody help you, check to see if it drops below 10.6V under load which they claim is min.
 

Robstorch

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Re: Any battery experts out there? Sometimes, car hesitates, then starts. Most of the tim

Go to an auto parts chain and have the battery load tested. Then clean the terminals, then check for any loose connections in your wiring harness, and battery terminal at the grounding point and on the starter. Wonder if your ignition switch is worn out too.
 

coontai

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Re: Any battery experts out there? Sometimes, car hesitates, then starts. Most of the tim

Just to let you know Hondas from this time period are notorious for starter switch failures, but I agree with all of the above. check cable, clean connections, and get your battery load tested/replaced at the local auto part store.
 

viorel00

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Re: Any battery experts out there? Sometimes, car hesitates, then starts. Most of the tim

coontai said:
Just to let you know Hondas from this time period are notorious for starter switch failures, ...

the starter turns the engine just fine, but it takes longer than usual for the engine to start. I don't think I have a battery problem after all, but nevertheless, I will get it tested.

Thanks
 

VidPro

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Re: Any battery experts out there? Sometimes, car hesitates, then starts. Most of the tim

viorel00 said:
the starter turns the engine just fine, but it takes longer than usual for the engine to start. I don't think I have a battery problem after all, but nevertheless, I will get it tested.

Thanks

ahhhh, a stickey solinoid? (that would be if it took time for the starter to REACT iafter you turned the switch)

the first thing i thought was the battery and starter cable connections, as they can get loose and corroded. but i would First have to test the battery under a load.
they have some really cheap junk battery connections out now, not like the bolt em down stuff, of the old V8 with the 300AMP starter.

the wet lead acid battery can last MANY years, if it is kept topped off, and will die in as few as 2 when it is left discharged. so cars that are Parked and rotting, will go through a battery faster, unless they top off that battery regular, or use a battery maintainer.

if the starter TURNS the engine just as rapidly and quickly as it ever did, but the engine doesnt start running on its own quickly, then it needs a tune up (type things) as opposed to a battery or connection issue of any sort.
fuel filters, spark plugs, coil, o2 sencors, injector cleaning, that kinda stuff.
 
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VidPro

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Re: Any battery experts out there? Sometimes, car hesitates, then starts. Most of the tim

see break it down

the starter turns the engine just fine (it seems) but it takes 5-6 seconds for the engine to start

this is an engine issue, not a starter/battery issue.
BUT

this time it looks like everything went dead, I couldn't even hear the starter turning,

this sounds like a starter connection battery issue, or even could be the alternator not charging, and the battery being low, and stuff like that.
BECAUSE

it manifests itself AFTER the engine was having trouble starting, those extra seconds, might have put undue (not normal) load on the parts that were working just fine before. bad connection heats up the few molecules connection gets charred, the connection fails.

SO

you could have 2 problems, and that is why you have so many solutions.
First, your engine isnt starting easily, which could indicate it needs a tune, THEN to add to that problem you have some starting fluke.

then this

This morning I measure the voltage BEFORE starting the engine, 12.64 V, then with engine running 14.57 V. I am no battery expert, but a quick search on the net seems to indicate the battery it not dead yet
INDICATES

that the battery does NOT have a bad cell, is NOT ruined, and IS charging.
 
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PlayboyJoeShmoe

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Re: Any battery experts out there? Sometimes, car hesitates, then starts. Most of the tim

I have to at least do the terminals on my Sisters Town Car tomorrow, as today it was dead when she came out of the doctors office, and then started fine after getting jumped at that point, driving to another location and having the car sit for another hour or so.

My RAM doesn't always light off as fast as it sometimes does, but nothing freaky at all has been going on with it.

I would CERTAINLY clean the battery connections! But if it is spinning over good it sounds like plugs/filters etc.

What a less than perfect battery connection USUALLY has happen, is that the starter can take out amps, but the alternator can't put them back. That you show 14.5 running SEEMS to indicate decent battery connections....
 

Any Cal.

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Re: Any battery experts out there? Sometimes, car hesitates, then starts. Most of the tim

+1 on Vidpro. There is no law that says you can only have one problem at a time. You probably have a couple of things going on.
 

mdocod

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Re: Any battery experts out there? Sometimes, car hesitates, then starts. Most of the tim

when engines have long cranking times, there are 3 things that are very common issues.

1. Lazy Fuel pump: or, associated piping... in some tanks... the hose that drops down into the tank becomes corroded, and the pump doesn't get a good "suction" on the fuel. It takes longer than usual to get the fuel lines and rail up to pressure.... Also- sometimes as the pump wears out, it will allow fuel to flow back down the fuel line into the tank while it sits there overnight.
2. Fuel pressure regulator... May not be bringing the fuel rail up to pressure correctly (too much bleed down to the return line).
3. Fuel injectors... As injectors age, they develop various issues.. one being that they bleed down during a hot soak(after you shut off the hot engine).. so require more fuel to get primed back up than usual, this leads to long cranking times...

one way to see if these are the possible problems.. is put the key in the "run" position for a few seconds before cranking- on SOME vehicles you will hear the fuel pump kick on at this point. Then after it has run for a moment (then it will shutoff when the fuel rail is up to pressure) you should crank over the engine and see if it fires up faster.

If it has a lot of miles on it there are things you should be doing ANYWAYS to keep the car in good working condition. going on a decade old I would replace plugs and plug-wires anyways... Other things not even related to your problems like the timing belt, serpentine belt, water pump, ball joints, struts, wheel bearings, tie rod ends, brake pads/rotors etc etc etc.... should all be at least inspected or considered approaching the end of their usable life.
 

Christexan

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Re: Any battery experts out there? Sometimes, car hesitates, then starts. Most of the tim

Several have mentioned cleaning the terminals, which if you do so, might reveal another common problem (I've had it and had to help several with it)... don't just clean the terminals, make sure the connections are solid and tight after reconnecting the cables (actually check before doing anything, then check again afterwards)... oftentimes there can be a crack in the battery clamp that's hard to see, and being malleable, the clamp may still appear "solid" and even tighten down pretty well (or so it seems) when in reality it's just wedging at an angle, and a good tug one way or the other will reveal it can't be truly tightened up.
This would easily explain this problem (and corrosion in the cable under the clamp, or a bad electrical connection elsewhere (fuel pump for instance), could explain some of these symptoms as well. The cable is marginally tight, but occassionally vibrates out of position, at which point the resistance goes up and the car hesitates to start, or hesitates then fires up, or the lights flicker, etc... as the car is attempting to start, either the current overcomes the resistance of the weak contact, or the shaking as the engine tries to turn over wiggles the cable enough to make solid contact, starting up again full strength.
Some clamp cracks can be nearly invisible to the eye and so problems keep coming and going for awhile. If it's a problem elsewhere (bad connection, cable corrosion short circuit, etc), that would also explain a lot of your issues (a short sucking current away from the starting circuit would cause hesitant/no start situations). Check your plug wires also, I haven't seen this happen exactly, but my car would start hesitating and acting up in operation from time to time (including stalling for a few seconds a few times with lights dim while going along, then firing up again), it was a bad plug wire that was shorting onto the intake manifold. At first it just seemed like a misfire or alternator/electrical system problem, maybe a tuning issue. If that was happening while starting, it would be just like you describe also.
Yep, bottom line, no easy 1-answer, but I agree it doesn't sound like the battery itself, so long as it's holding voltage, if it has real problems, they'll show up soon enough, but until the voltage starts turning up low, it's probably something else.
 

glockboy

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Re: Any battery experts out there? Sometimes, car hesitates, then starts. Most of the tim

For the engines have long cranking times, try change the fuel filter and air filter.
 
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