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Thread: Knife Sharpening

  1. #151

    Default Re: Sharpening the Cutting hook on my Charge XTI

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  2. #152
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    Default How are these sharpeners?

    Found an old sharpener in my drawer. It's older but appears to be in great shape. I'm thinking of putting this one in my car for sharpening when out and about if I need. I'm just wondering if these type of sharpeners are any good? I won't use it if it's a piece of junk that will do more harm than good.
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  3. #153
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    Default Re: How are these sharpeners?

    that one may work, but I've never seen one simular that was not junk.

    also I don't like sharpeners that if you slip... could send you to the hospital!

    sorry but if that was mine, I'd pitch it in the trash can

  4. #154

    Default Re: How are these sharpeners?

    For the most part, I agree with Cy. Although it may not be a good sharpener for knives you really like, for "abusers" or work knives that end up in situations like cutting mud encrusted rope or tape from iron (situations I frequently encounter) a sharpener like that can be very nice to have around.
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  5. #155
    Flashaholic* Anglepoise's Avatar
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    Default Re: How are these sharpeners?

    The sharpener shown in the photo uses a 'carbide' groove and as carbide is harder than your knife blade , metal is removed. However it is scraped off and will damage a good blade. Just keep it away from your good folders. For old work knives,.... probably be fine.
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  6. #156
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    Default Re: How are these sharpeners?

    Glad I haven't used it on any good knives. Time for a sharpmaker.

    Are there any good pcoket sharpeners kind of like the one in the photo that are any good?
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  7. #157

    Default Re: How are these sharpeners?

    It will put a somewhat adequate edge on knives made from fairly soft steel. Cheap stainless steel paring knives for example. Oddly enough Aeromedix packages the S30V Ritter Griptillian with a similar sharpener. So YMMV when using it on a knife made of high quality steel. I'd at least give it a try as a test on a knife that was dull anyway, if it didn't work well, you wouldn't be much worse off.

  8. #158
    Flashaholic* Unicorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: How are these sharpeners?

    I have this thing about actually scraping the edge as a means of sharpening. You'd get better results with a small diamond stone or rod. DMT makes some pretty compact sharpeners, some double side, that have folding handles. Smaller than the pictured "sharpener."

  9. #159
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    Default Re: How are these sharpeners?

    I've got one of those, yes it shaves metal off of the blade. I keep it around to put a quick edge on an old camp knife. Wouldn't touch a good blade with it!
    Last edited by Sigman; 09-08-2006 at 02:43 AM.
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  10. #160
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    Default Re: How are these sharpeners?

    Complete and utter junk that shouldn't be used on anything more valuable than a Chinese made kitchen knife you bought for $5 at Target. Same for the ones with ceramic rods in an X. The problem is that instead of sharpening each side, you're wedging the blade between 2 slabs of whatever, which hogs away way too much metal and will never sharpen beyond a certain point. Imagine a blade that has an actual thin, sharp edge. Now wedge it between 2 things that cross each other. The edge will be deformed in one direction, than immediately deformed in the other direction. Combine this with the fact that people think "harder is faster", and there's few ways to ruin sharp edge faster than using a sharpener like that short of trying to carve a cinderblock.

    Get a Spyderco Sharpmaker 204, watch the DVD, and practice first on a couple cheap knives. You'll have bare arms in no time.

  11. #161
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    Default Re: How are these sharpeners?

    I have never tried a sharpener like that... but I second the recommendation for the Sharpmaker, which has worked great for me.

  12. #162
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    Default Re: How are these sharpeners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Planterz
    Get a Spyderco Sharpmaker 204, watch the DVD, and practice first on a couple cheap knives. You'll have bare arms in no time.


    I bought my Sharpmaker years ago and I haven't had hair on my left forearm since.

  13. #163
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    Default Please help: Spyderco Sharpmaker or EdgePro Apex?

    Hi everyone,

    Please don't tell me to do a search. I've done them, and read three or four relevant threads, including drizzle's (??? sp ???) nice review thread of the Apex.

    My brain hurts. I need some direct, relevant help.

    Here's the deal--here are a couple things I don't care about in my decision making process:

    Cost no object. For the purposes of this thread, I don't care about how much I spend on a knife sharpening system, as long as it is under $200.

    Fixed angles or infinitely variable doesn't matter. I don't consider the Sharpmaker to be inferior to the Apex simply because the SM can only do 15 and 20 degree angles.

    However, here are some things I DO care about:

    Convenience. I want the system to be easy to use and setup and store so that I am inclined to sharpen my knives more frequently.

    Edge quality. I definitely want the system to put a really good edge on the knife. And what worries me about the SM is that it is said to round the tips of knives. Is this unavoidable? And exactly how does it "round the tips"? And can this be avoided with a different technique?

    Edge coarseness/fineness. Despite what some may say, I have found that in many cases, you do NOT want a super fine edge on a knife. I like my kitchen knives to have a very well done coarse edge to them. i.e. I only use my 800 grit waterstone or coarse grade DMT stone to sharpen them. This makes cutting through tomatos very easy. So with that in mind, I'm guessing that I would need to get the diamond stones for the SM, right? But, what about the Apex? Will the coarsest waterstone be coarse enough? Because, as it is, I find my 800 grit waterstone to be way less preferable to my DMT for creating my favorite edge for the kitchen knives.

    Versatility. I want the sharpener to be useful for a great many sharpening tasks, and not just a handful: long knives, short knives, plain edge, serrated edge, scissors, etc. I'd like to be able to handle them all, although I am mostly interested in being able to sharpen 2" to 8" plain and serrated knives, with scissors being the next highest priority. I use my waterstone and a jig to sharpen chisels and other woodworking tools, so that's a non-issue.

    Longevity. I don't want to find that I've dished out my Apex water stones after only a dozen sharpenings and have to tediously flatten them (if it IS tedious to do this--I don't know). I want this sharpener to LAST A LONG TIME.

    Portability. I want to be able to easily cart this around with me for trips and outings.

    No stray marks! I don't want to scratch up the blade or handle as a natural consequence of sharpening my knives.

    ***

    OK. So as you can see, my criteria seem to me to favor the Spyderco Sharpmaker system with additional diamond rods, right?

    Or what do people think? And I'd especially like to know about the tip-rounding phenomenon of the SM? How big a deal is this? What's the deal?

    Thanks in advance for any help you'all can give me.
    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

  14. #164
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    Default Re: Please help: Spyderco Sharpmaker or EdgePro Apex?

    Having only experience with knifes that were sharpened by others with the Apex I can't help much. But it did put a scary/nice edge on one of my old Spyderco's. I PM'd the friend in question to see if they can post their experiences with the Apex system.

  15. #165
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    Default Re: Please help: Spyderco Sharpmaker or EdgePro Apex?

    The tip rounding problem with the SM results from the unintended increased pressure when the tip slides off the sharpening rod. It can be avoided by ending your stroke AT the tip instead of PAST the tip.

    The blade-scratching problem with the EdgePro can be avoided by protecting the sides of the blade (with tape, for instance), or alternatively by frequently wiping the blade and the EdgePro's tool rest surface.

  16. #166
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    Default Re: Please help: Spyderco Sharpmaker or EdgePro Apex?

    Thanks, Rudi. That's helpful. How hard is it to get into the habit of ending your stroke AT the tip instead of PAST the tip? Or couldn't you START at the tip and push inwards and down? Does that work?
    Last edited by js; 09-17-2006 at 12:35 PM. Reason: Spelling error
    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

  17. #167
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    Default Re: Please help: Spyderco Sharpmaker or EdgePro Apex?

    To avoid the pressure that causes the roundingat the tip requires concentrating on it at every stroke, until it (may or may not) becomes automatic. No reason you couldn't start at the tip with a push stroke, but that makes it harder to maintain a constant angle.

  18. #168
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    Default Re: Please help: Spyderco Sharpmaker or EdgePro Apex?

    I can't see a push stroke - just isn't natural, but I've been using the Sharpmaker for a couple of years with no signs of rounded tips. Maybe it's b/c I usually end up on the flat edge of the stone with a downward stroke at the end.

    My main comment is about the diamond stones. My perception is that the diamond sticks are most beneficial when you have to remove a lot of steel like when reprofiling the edge. If you simply want a coarse edge, then I think the standard sticks will do just fine - just use the 1st step and not the next 3 steps.

    If money is no object, then get the diamonds. Better to have them even if you only use them occasionally, then to need them and not have them at all. It's not fun reprofiling with standard sticks.

    That said, most of the specifics that you listed are met by the Sharpmaker. You sound like a heavy user, so the standard sticks won't last you forever, but you won't wear them out quickly either. I think most of us are mainly light to moderate users and will probably get a lifetime of use out of one set.

  19. #169
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    Default Re: Please help: Spyderco Sharpmaker or EdgePro Apex?

    Jim: The Sharpmaker is much easier to use. The EdgePro takes some setup and can be messy if you don't have a good spot.

    However, the SM is limited to two angles: a 30-degree back bevel and a 40-degree edge. It's worthless for anything else, and some of the better steels (VG10, S30V, ZDP, D2 if you like a toothy edge, etc.) like and can take a more acute edge. Other knives for heavier duty need a less acute edge. You might want a more acute edge on your kitchen knives. And the SM is difficult to reprofile edges, which is sometimes necessary.

    The EdgePro is way more versatile, lots of edges and lots of stones and easy to use on all types of knives. However, it works best with flat grinds. Knives with severe sabre hollow grinds, especially large knives, are not easy to use.

    The best system is to use the EP for major resharpenings and to profile your blades to 30-degree edges (or 30-degree edges with a final 40-degree edge). The SM is great to keep the blade sharp after every use.

    But with either system, the key is to develop an even burr and gradually and gently sharpen it away. And you need a magic marker to make sure you're actually sharpening the edge.

    If you want, I can loan you either or both systems to try. Just send them back when you're done.

    Josey

  20. #170
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    Default Re: Please help: Spyderco Sharpmaker or EdgePro Apex?

    The sharpmaker is actually a pretty versitile system. It is not limited to 15 and 20 degree angles. By simple experementation you can put thing under the base to change the angle. Diamond rods are also available to reprofile edges with a very agressive edge.

  21. #171
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    Default Re: Please help: Spyderco Sharpmaker or EdgePro Apex?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grubbster
    By simple experementation you can put thing under the base to change the angle.

    OK, that's fair, but you can do the same thing with free stones, too. The EdgePro has many, many different stones and polishing tapes. I do like and use the SM, but the EdgePro gives you a far more precise angle because everything is locked into place. The SM requires you to hold the blade vertical. If you watch when you do it, the blade actually wobbles unless you are very practiced and very careful. Maintaining an edge is pretty easy with the SM, which is why I like it. But I've found that major resharpening and reprofiling is much easier and more accurate with the EdgePro.

    I guess what I'm saying is to get both. Where have you heard that before?

  22. #172
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    Default Re: Please help: Spyderco Sharpmaker or EdgePro Apex?

    I own both. From your post the Sharpmaker 204 will be just what the doctor ordered. Perfect for you and your needs.
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    Default Re: Please help: Spyderco Sharpmaker or EdgePro Apex?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josey
    OK, that's fair, but you can do the same thing with free stones, too. The EdgePro has many, many different stones and polishing tapes. I do like and use the SM, but the EdgePro gives you a far more precise angle because everything is locked into place. The SM requires you to hold the blade vertical. If you watch when you do it, the blade actually wobbles unless you are very practiced and very careful. Maintaining an edge is pretty easy with the SM, which is why I like it. But I've found that major resharpening and reprofiling is much easier and more accurate with the EdgePro.

    I guess what I'm saying is to get both. Where have you heard that before?

    Funny that.......took the words right out of my gob...... I also use both, not the answer you are looking for, right?

  24. #174
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    Default Re: Please help: Spyderco Sharpmaker or EdgePro Apex?

    What do you do with the Magic marker?

  25. #175
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    Default Re: Please help: Spyderco Sharpmaker or EdgePro Apex?

    Quote Originally Posted by greenlight
    What do you do with the Magic marker?

    Paint the blade edge bevel with the magic marker and then make a dry pass with your stone. If the angle of your stone is too wide, none of the marker will be scraped away. If the angle is too narrow, you'll scrape away the marker at the top of the back bevel, but not along the edge of the blade. You want the stone to be parallel with the edge bevel, meaning it scrapes away all the marker.

    Once the stone angle is correct, you can sharpen until you raise a burr on the opposite side of the edge, then keep sharpening the burr away, moving your stone from one side to the other, with ever more gentle strokes until the burr is gone. Then your knife will be sharp. You can polish the blade after that or strop it for extra sharpness. But it all starts with the correct angle.

  26. #176
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    Default Re: Please help: Spyderco Sharpmaker or EdgePro Apex?

    Thanks everyone for the information!

    It was very helpful. I think for now I will go for the spyderco sharpmaker with diamond rods, and then later get the edgepro.

    Josey,

    Thank you SO much for offering to lend me either system. I may check back with you in 2007 about the edgepro, but for now I'm good. I actually got to see LEDmodMan's spyderco sharpmaker when he visited me a couple years ago, so I know what that's like firsthand. And, come to think of it, he never mentioned the "tip rounding" effect.

    Anyway, thanks again everyone.
    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

  27. #177
    Flashaholic Jvalera's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please help: Spyderco Sharpmaker or EdgePro Apex?

    Get em both. At first I had the 204, perfect for my utility blades but then

    for the pricey stuff its the EdgePro. Man I hate curvy blades...lol

  28. #178
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    Default Re: Please help: Spyderco Sharpmaker or EdgePro Apex?

    Stop screwing around and get the EdgePro. Actually get both, which you seem to be saying. They're not comparable, except that you can sharpen a knife with both.

    The EP is a system that can do most anything a reasonable person might want to do. The SM is great for touch-ups, but a pain for rebeveling new or worn knives. You can integrate the two, using only 15 or 20 degrees for your secondary on the EP, then you're set for touching up with the SM (I touch-up by eye with a ceramic rod.)

    The course stone of the EP is for rebeveling basically, the 220 is what you sound like you'd use for a goto stone. I use up to the 320 for kitchen, and 600 for folders with good steel. I strop everything with either 3 or .5 micron diamond on leather.

    The 320 and 600 should almost never need flattening, the 120 needs it a lot, but it's easy, just takes a couple minutes and I kind of enjoy it (just throw some sand on a cinder block.)

    If I used them enough to be totally familiar, muscle memory wise, I bet there wouldn't be much difference in setup time if you discount the water with the EP. The EP is a lot easier to setup than people think, and you still have to fussy around with the SM if it's put up in it's case. I use the EP in the kitchen in a large Pyrex dish, no problem, no mess.

    If you haven't already got it, I wouldn't waste money on the diamond sticks for the SM until you try it with the default ones. The diamond are basically for rebeveling, and that's masochistic with the SM. But really, if I know you like I think I do, you want the EdgePro.

    Oh, the trick with the SM not to round the tip is to rotate your wrist forward and down as the tip nears the stick. In other words, you start with the blade basically parallel to the ground and end with it almost perpendicular. Tips are a pain for all but the true masters I think (well, that's what I tell myself.)
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  29. #179
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    Default Re: Please help: Spyderco Sharpmaker or EdgePro Apex?

    I agree with everything Bob G said, so no point reiterating it.
    I use the EdgePro for reprofiling and back bevels, the Sharpmaker for touch-ups. They're a great combination.
    I typically use the EdgePro to produce a final edge or microbevel that is a bit lower in angle than one of the Sharpmaker settings, which makes realigning or touching up with the Sharpmaker a breeze.

    IMO, rounding tips with the Sharpmaker comes from sharpening in a hurry using the corners of the stones. I rarely use the flats of the white stones, just finish with the corners, and have rounded a tip or four in my time
    It's just as easy to screw up the tip with the EdgePro if you forget that the edge should be perpendicular to the stone, and don't reposition the blade accordingly.

  30. #180
    *Flashaholic* jtice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please help: Spyderco Sharpmaker or EdgePro Apex?

    I have the Sharpmaker, the Lansky Pro, and the EZE.

    I have to say, that the Sharpmaker is my favorite.

    Convenience and portability are going to make you lean toward the Sharpmaker.
    Its super super easy to use, and seems to put a very sharp edge on my knives alot faster than any other sharpener.

    I almost exclusively use the edges of the stones, not the flats.

    Its not the best choice for re-profiling though.
    But, even after using the EZE, I noticed if I make a couple swipes on the Sharpmaker, its Really sharp after that.

    I need to pickup a new one, my stones are getting a bit warn,
    but I have used it alot, even to sharpen machetes.

    ~John

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