The best computer keyboards ever made - still

[fisk-king]

My apologis if this has been asked but in regards to Cherry MX switches does the color signify performance (i.e. blue, black, brown).

Also, my keyboard (Microsoft Comfort Curve 2000) has suddenly startd to quack on me (have to copy and paste the lettr 'e') so I will probably purchas one from elitekeboards but have no idea which one?


Typing this was an exercise in patience.

[AvroArrow]

The Cherry MX switch color denotes their attribute. Blue=tactile & clicky sound. Brown=tactile & quiet. Black=not tactile & quiet. Quiet =/= completely silent. What I mean by tactile is that you will feel a bump after pressing down on the key (about half way down) before you bottom out the key. That bump is the switch actuating and registering the keypress. There is a FAQ on the elitekeyboards site that explains this much better.

As for which keyboard to get... that will depend on personal taste. The blue cherries (which I have) do make some noise so depending on your environment it may be annoying to others close by or when it's quiet at night. The browns are probably the best for the noise conscious and general purpose but I personally found that the "bump" wasn't quite as tactile as the blues. I actually enjoy the noise of the blues, but then again, I can only use it at home because it isn't really acceptable at my work.

The next thing to choose is the 87 or 104 key variant. After having used the 87-key Filco for over half a year now I would not go back to a 104-key keyboard if given a choice. I can finally center the keyboard and my hands in front of me now and I don't have to reach as far to grab my trackball. I find it much more comfortable to type this way now. I also use the num pad a fair bit now and then, which is why I also bought the Filco num pad. I could have cheaped out and bought some cheap generic num pad from a computer store, but I figure since I'm ordering that much anyway, I'd stick with a matching set.

BTW, elitekeyboards isn't the only place to get mechanical keyboards depending on which keyboard you want. If you want an 87-key keyboard, there's not a lot of choice, either the Filco or the Realforce or the even more compact Happy Hacking. If you want a standard 104-key then you've got more store choices and a wider price range. Das Keyboard makes mechanical keyboards that use Cherry MX switches. Their Model S Professional uses Cherry blues and Model S Professional Silent uses Cherry browns. Razer has also announced that they will be releasing a "gaming" keyboard called BlackWidow using Cherry blues to be released sometime this October. They didn't actually say they were using Cherry blues, but someone on geekhack found some pictures of an early review unit that showed that they were in fact using Cherry blues. The more expensive variant of the BlackWidow has blue LED backlighting if you are into that kind of thing.

[KevinL]

hmm....

For those reminiscing about the Model M, you can still use them on contemporary computers. PS/2 to USB adapters work great - even on OSX 10.6.4, not to mention Windows.

For better or for worse, I have adapted to the contemporary Apple keyboard - the aluminium, wired, numeric keypad one.

[fisk-king]

A.Arrow.

One quick question, what is so special about the Happy Hacking keyboard to warrant the price tag. Just curious since I see more posts on the Filco in Geek"forgot name".com than the HH.

[AvroArrow]

The Happy Hacking Professional 2 (not to be confused with the Lite 2, which is vastly inferior & vastly cheaper) uses the same Topre Capacitive switches as the RealForce keyboards, hence the similar price tag (HHKBP2: $265, RF86U: $245). The HHKB is super compact because it only has 60 keys (vs 86 on the RealForce) & a 2 port USB hub. There are DIP switches to hardware remap some of the keys too (caps lock/ctrl/meta/windows/apple keys). I'm not a fan of the super compact 60-key layout so I went with 87-key Filco. Even if I were in the market for a $250 Topre switch keyboard, I'd probably get the RealForce 86-key instead of the HHKB. But this is definitely a case of YMMV and personal taste. The Topre switches are even lighter than the Cherry browns and owners on geekhack.org have said they are better than the browns, but it's still very much a personal preference thing. I didn't think they were worth double the price of the Filco brown so I stuck with the Filco. I think it's kind of like justifying a titanium McGizmo over Surefire, except the McGizmo is in fact clearly superior and worth the price premium in my opinion. Others may not agree, but hey, it's my money and it makes me happy. I'm just not at the point where I think the RF/HHKB is worth the price premium.

[don.gwapo]

Saving to get this portable keyboard for myself.


Rii pro mini wireless keyboard. Backlit keyboards with red laser pointer and touchpad.

[ejot]

I started work here at Cornell's accelerator some 6 or so years ago now,

(from first post, in 2007)

Wow, js, I must have very nearly crossed paths with you as an EP undergrad at Cornell 03-07.

My old Model M is stored away now cause its so big and LOUD but sure is fun to type on.

[ckthorp]

I love this thread. It just keeps coming back to life again and again!

[fisk-king]

I love this thread. It just keeps coming back to life again and again!

You are absolutely right sir .

[Obijuan Kenobe]

I don't know about links on this forum. I have seen many run afoul of the moderators for improper link protocol.

I hope I can do THIS. This guy, Datamancer, he's pretty famous for modding old IBM keyboards into some pretty wild updates. I like some of that stuff alot. But at 1500, it better be dang nice.

obi

[primoled]

always an IBM keyboard for me

[bitslice]

hmm....

For those reminiscing about the Model M, you can still use them on contemporary computers. PS/2 to USB adapters work great - even on OSX 10.6.4, not to mention Windows.

That's good to know, thanks,
I've saved a few IBM keyboards from the skip because I love the clicky sound, it makes me feel like I'm doing some actual work.

[fisk-king]

I don't know about links on this forum. I have seen many run afoul of the moderators for improper link protocol.

I hope I can do THIS. This guy, Datamancer, he's pretty famous for modding old IBM keyboards into some pretty wild updates. I like some of that stuff alot. But at 1500, it better be dang nice.

obi

$1500 for a keyboard?! Wow, that must be one serious piece of hardware (can't pull up the website at work).

[Obijuan Kenobe]

$1500 for a keyboard?! Wow, that must be one serious piece of hardware (can't pull up the website at work).

Check it out when you get home. His work is obviously way over the top OCD. This guy makes some really fine keyboards, always starting with these you guys love so much.

The industrial is pretty cool. I also like the alchemist.

obi

[AMD64Blondie]

Still clicking away...4 years on.(I bought all 3 of my IBM Model M keyboards in August 2007.) Long live the Model M.

(Using rubber-dome keyboards at work sucks.)

[wquiles]

(Using rubber-dome keyboards at work sucks.)

I got lucky in that I work from home and working from home allows me to use both my Realforce (Topre) and my Filco (Brown)

However, I also travel a lot, so it is a compromise as I then have to use the laptop while travel, which of course has terrible keyboards, compared to either the Topre and the Filco.

Will

[wquiles]

I know this is an older thread, but as an update, I wanted to offer more data on my Realforce (Topre) and my Filco (Brown switches). How that I have used them both for a long time, I really prefer the Relforce (Topre) keyboard. It is a little bit smoother/lighter, and most specially, it is quieter than the Filco (Brown switches). Not only the Realforce (Topre) intrinsically quieter, but the Realforce (Topre) gets even more quiet the more I use it since I learned to hit the keys even softer, so there is less bottoming on they keys (they are lighter than the Filco). They are not cheap, but if I were to get a new keyboard, I would save money to buy another keyboard with the Topre switches

Will

[js]

I know this is an older thread, but as an update, I wanted to offer more data on my Realforce (Topre) and my Filco (Brown switches). How that I have used them both for a long time, I really prefer the Relforce (Topre) keyboard. It is a little bit smoother/lighter, and most specially, it is quieter than the Filco (Brown switches). Not only the Realforce (Topre) intrinsically quieter, but the Realforce (Topre) gets even more quiet the more I use it since I learned to hit the keys even softer, so there is less bottoming on they keys (they are lighter than the Filco). They are not cheap, but if I were to get a new keyboard, I would save money to buy another keyboard with the Topre switches

Will

Will,

Indeed! I've only grown to love my Topre Realforce more and more. It is, to my taste, clearly better than any other keyboard I've tried--but it DOES take a little getting used to, of course. But once you adjust to it, it is (in my experience), faster, more accurate, quieter, and easier to use than any other keyboard. I love it! If I had lots of expendable income, I'd get a tenkeyless model, as I don't often use the dedicated numeric keypad.

Anyway, thanks for the post, Will!

[wquiles]

... If I had lots of expendable income, I'd get a tenkeyless model, as I don't often use the dedicated numeric keypad ...

That is the Realforce model that I got - the tenkeyless, and honestly not once I have needed the "extra" part of the keyboard. And the icing on the cake is that it uses less desk space, so for me a win-win

Will

[js]

So, I recently was very tempted to get a tenkeyless Realforce (87U) since they not only had it in white/grey, but they ALSO had it in ALL 45g key activation force. I've been thinking about it for weeks, but it was a lot of cash to drop and I wasn't sure if (or for how much) I could sell my 103U. Then, I was talking with a co-worker and she tells me that she actually uses her left hand for the mouse and keeps it to the LEFT of her keyboard, which makes a lot of sense to me. Because even a tenkeyless model has those dedicated arrow keys to the right of the main keys. Then I started thinking some more, especially about keyboard layout and what keys get used, and why I like my laptop keyboard layout so much (action isn't nearly as good as Topre, but layout I really like). I like it because my hands pretty much stay in the same damn place and that makes typing very fast. Even if I want to move the cursor, the trackpad is right nearby, and the ARROW keys are ALSO right near by, below the right hand shift key.

Re-enter the HHKB Pro 2.

So, I realize, if I'm going to take the trouble to get used to using a mouse left-handed so as to have it closer to where my hands are when typing, why not just get used to the HHKB layout, with the FN key to activate the "function" layer--arrow keys, function keys (F2, F3, etc.), CAPS LOCK, and so on? That is starting to make SO MUCH sense to me! I mean, seriously, right? The big old 101 or 103 key keyboards were made for a time when GUI's were crude or nonexistent, and when a mouse (or a touch screen!) played a much smaller role than it does now. Why not both free up a lot more desk space for your mouse, and also have a desktop keyboard which is compact enough so that your hands can stay in more or less the same place while you type? Why not? I can get used to using a FN key if there is an upside! And from what I have read, most people feel that there definitely IS an upside!

So . . . once my paypal account gets some funds in it I'm going to order a HHKB Pro 2 and spend some quality time with it. I strongly suspect that I'll come to really really like it. But time will tell . . .

[Lynx_Arc]

My keytronics keyboard turned 20 last year and is still going strong. I have noticed the most used keys are rather shiny (polished looking) and none of the lettering on the keys is worn through at all. It is possible that unless computers change and require different keyboard interfacing such that I can no longer use this keyboard with my computer or I end up mostly using a non desktop computer that this keyboard could outlast me. I took a look at the HHKB keyboards and the very compact design looks interesting but has no place to keep M&Ms ready for use

[Lite_me]

I have two... Keytronic Lifetime keyboards. Guess they'll last me two lifetimes. But one actually went out on me a few yrs ago now. My guess it was something on the membrane circuit. Got an RMA an returned it for repair. It returned looking and working like new. I'm not even sure how long I've had em. 10+ yrs fer sure. It's my favorite keyboard of all I've seen and tried.

[ev13wt]

I agree with Jim, the IBM Model M and those Apple keyboards are some of the best ever. In addition to the Extended II, the orginal Extended and the IIgs shorty keyboard are excellent.

On my PC now I actually use a cheap Logitech keyboard, since I got tired of the Model M. The loud click and the hard stroke got on my nerves. The Logitech doesn't have the same quality, but I can type faster on a softer touch.

But you have to press all the way down for a key to register. How can that be faster?

[Lynx_Arc]

But you have to press all the way down for a key to register. How can that be faster?

In some cases having to push harder can mean for slower acceleration of a keystroke thus taking more time per stroke.

[ev13wt]

In some cases having to push harder can mean for slower acceleration of a keystroke thus taking more time per stroke.

Ok, on a ibm keyb thats trying to immitate a typewriter, I agree.

I just wanted to get him to think/google the difference between mechanical and rubber dome switches.

[Lynx_Arc]

Ok, on a ibm keyb thats trying to immitate a typewriter, I agree.

I just wanted to get him to think/google the difference between mechanical and rubber dome switches.

I'm not sure of the difference but there could be a slight difference in speed of them also but I would say once you get past a point where the stiffness of the keys isn't slowing you down then unless you can type in excess of 100 wpm I doubt you will get but a few words a page between keyboards.

[js]

Reports from geekhack indicate that some people experience a 20WPM bump when switching to the Topre boards--but they're going from, say, 140WPM to 160WPM (or from an even higher baseline). But, the thing is that the Topre is said to be one of the only boards that has BOTH a light action AND a tactile "bump" (albeit a much smoother and more subtle one than a BS or Alps or Cherry Blue or Brown). Most people who are fairly fast typists do not bottom out the keys on boards like the Topre or Cherry MX switch based ones--not as a rule, anyway.

Anyway, I'm far from being any kind of expert on keyboards and typing, however! So add many grains of salt to the above--it's just what I've gleaned from some reading at geekhack. What I can tell you for sure is that I personally have experienced the Topre increase. I can type faster on this board than on any of the others I have tried. And I'm not a super fast typist, either. I don't actually know what my WPM count is. I should measure that. But, in any case, my fingers definitely prefer the Topre. And I definitely like that it is both light and tactile. And I don't care that it is technically not a mechanical keyboard. This thing is beyond awesome!