Will LED be the future of lightings? How long it will be?

[Ken_McE]

WHAT IS THE COST OF A 65W LED LIGHT?

Came to $200 US with shipping for a first generation panel:

http://www.ledfolio.com/inc.php?inc=pro_tilux

LEDs will indeed be the future of lighting.

Err, is there something wrong with HID, Fluorescent, and Electroluminescent? Some of these are here and ready right now.

[2xTrinity]

Err, is there something wrong with HID, Fluorescent, and Electroluminescent? Some of these are here and ready right now.

There are several disadvantages to HID/Fluorescent where LEDs will eventually be a better solution, particularly cold sensitivity (LEDs work best in cold), focusability (fluorescent can't be focused), small scaleability (HID has a lot of up front cost with ballasts, and doesn't do well for things like small track lights)

HID/Fluorescent is inherently the cheapest way to go for high output, though things like the ceiling panels you linked I think will eventually become more popular, as they are easier to install than bulkier fluorescent fixtuers. Also the diffused fluorescent fixtures tend to be fairly inefficient, the efficient fixtures are generally exposed tubes with a reflector, and work great for warehouses/garages but are inappropriate for home/office use.

Generall though, I'd agree, there's a lot more high-quality stuff available in Fluorescent/HID than most people know about.

[IMSabbel]

Err, is there something wrong with HID, Fluorescent, and Electroluminescent? Some of these are here and ready right now.

Electroluminiescent doesnt cut it. Nice for "exit here" signs, or case-mods, but sucks at efficience and chromatic distribution.
Fluorescent is the strongest contender, but is a matured technology (no big advances to be expected), needs high voltage, bulky fixtures, self-shadowing losses,ect).

HID is nice in projectors (automotive lightings, Beamers, ect), no question. Suffers from BAD bulb lifetimes (making it unsuitable for general lighting), need for complex ballast/high voltage and really bad downscaling (by the time you are down to a power-level that doesnt cause glare/uncomfortable light indoors, you are less efficient than leds and fluorescent).

So, to answer your question, thats wrong.

[TorchBoy]

(by the time you are down to a power-level that doesnt cause glare/uncomfortable light indoors, you are less efficient than leds and fluorescent).

But if you get a really bright LED, which is basically a spot source, that bright, isn't it going to have bad glare too?

[Melchior]

LEDs being quite radically different from all other forms of lighting, is being thought about wrong.

A LED 'fixture' should not in any way attempt to replace a Incandescent/Fluorescent 1:1.

LED's greatest issue is heat of course, which means any high density light systems will suffer from thermal breakdown and reduced lifetimes due to phosphor decay.

I think an ideal solution would be to have very LARGE ceiling panels (residential) that use a small number of Power LEDs.

Along with point light sources like current Halogen track lighting.

However I think the real advances are going to be 'weird' LED lighting like fraen optic panels that have pre-focused areas to precisely light up a room or other area.

Also strange things like corner lights (which only CCFL and very small florescent can also do, and area edge lighting will use LEDs sooner.

The old concept of having a omni directional light source (like a candle or Incandescent) just won't work for LEDs. Thus when people try and replace CFLs or whatnot with them it will produce poor results.

In short LEDs require a major rethink of Light fixtures currently used.

What I see as becoming popular in a short term is a LED 'Tree' Lamp~

Something with multiple 'branches' each with a single LED power emmiter on the end, each branch could then be aimed where its needed most, and if more light is required then several branches are aimed in the same location.

[2xTrinity]

But if you get a really bright LED, which is basically a spot source, that bright, isn't it going to have bad glare too?

A single bright LED is a poor idea for area illumnation -- large high-power LEDs are better for flashlights or spotlights, where throw is needed. If only flood is needed, using a large array of multiple lower-powered, surface-mounted LEDs (not 5mm epoxy, which have no heatsinking) , or even an entire "sheet" of OLEDs for diffused illumnation is the best way to go to avoid glare. It also spreads the heat out more compared to a high-power LED.

As for a product available right now, IMHO a high quality fluorescent fixture (like a T5 or T8 fixture with high CRI tubes) is the best way to go for area lighting -- both due to high efficiency, and low glare.

Even with bright power LEDs, glare is a lot easier to manage than with an HID because the optics associated with it can be scaled down, and multiple, smaller spotlight can be used instead of one central large light. The biggest problem with HID is that it requires bulky glass fixtures and/or reflectors to contain in . That's because HID lamps operate at very high pressure, and in the case of a faulty lamp might explode which woudl be extremely dangerous without a bulky glass surrounding. An LED with a tiny optic can get the job done just as well, occupy much less space, and will be perfectly safe (no high voltage, no explosion risk).

[Ken_McE]

Electroluminiescent doesnt cut it. Nice for "exit here" signs, or case-mods, but sucks at efficience and chromatic distribution.

The Ceelite people http://www.ceelite.com/ sell what they feel is an improved EL panel for general lighting. I'd like to see one, but am waiting for someone else to buy one first.

[JohnB]

I think it is just a matter of time before LED's take over.
Municipalities are sold on them already because of the savings they have seen from traffic signals. High power street lights are being deployed and tested in several major cities. We are very close to the tipping point. The technology needs to mature a little more. Heat management and spread issues are being addressed. I have seen these products up close and they do work. Maybe light bulbs will take longer but streetlights are already here.

Regards

[BB62]

...Heat management and spread issues are being addressed...

By "spread issues" do you mean the spreading of light - scattered instead of focused or vice versa?

Thanks!

[mulki]

Interesting BBC article on OLED Light Bulbs;

Natural light 'to reinvent bulbs'

The clock is ticking for light bulbs
A light source that could put the traditional light bulb in the shade has been invented by US scientists.
The organic light-emitting diode (OLED) emits a brilliant white light when attached to an electricity supply.

Link

[LED_Thrift]

mulki: Thanks for that interesting link about the organic LEDs. That looks like one way to get large areas lit without running a lot of wires. I can't wait for the future.

[EricB]

LED's seem to be catching on in leaps and bounds now. In the news these past couple of days, is that the Brooklyn Bridge is going to get LED bulbs. At first, the reports mentioned "more environmentally friendly", or something like that' the term we had just hear about the Rockefeller Center tree's recent conversion. But I didn't think it could mean LED bulbs, because I didn't think they were bright enough for that yet. These are those bright mercury's outlining the span they are replacing. But afterwards, they said it would be LED's. I imagine these must be some expensive high end ones for them to be bright enough to actuall replace HID's, and on such a landmark structure, of all things.

Also, in th east two days; some posted pictures and this video, of one of NYC's buses having the interior lights replaced with LED's.
Here's a photo and link to post with several pictures and video.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...1206055132.jpg
http://www.subchat.com/buschat/readf...9321&p=1#79444
I wondered when this would happen. Now all of a sudden, here is it!

Also; just found out from the paper today, thet the New Year's ball; the other major object to get LED's this year; was on display at Macy's (but only for four more days). So I quickly went and saw that. It is much nicer than I imagined! The individual triangles can change color separately, and they were doing all sorts of color combinations. The geodesic lines between the triangle crystals are liked with white LED's.

So it looks like the future is closer than we think. This is happening even more rapidly than CFL's had spread!

[mulki]

mulki: Thanks for that interesting link about the organic LEDs. That looks like one way to get large areas lit without running a lot of wires. I can't wait for the future.

Me too. I switched all my home lights to CFLs and am waiting for LEDs home lights to get economical enough to use as home lights!

[mooper]

Me too. I switched all my home lights to CFLs and am waiting for LEDs home lights to get economical enough to use as home lights!

That day has just about arrived. Home Depot is now selling Cree-based home light replacements at just $17 (if you apply some widely available discounts) per 40w equivalent bulb.

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/lightin...ulb-39632.html

Reviews of quality are generally excellent, and I love mine. By next year we'll see 65w replacements at the same price, and that's when they'll take off.

[Lynx_Arc]

That day has just about arrived. Home Depot is now selling Cree-based home light replacements at just $17 (if you apply some widely available discounts) per 40w equivalent bulb.

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/lightin...ulb-39632.html

Reviews of quality are generally excellent, and I love mine. By next year we'll see 65w replacements at the same price, and that's when they'll take off.

holy thread necromancy batman.
Give it another 5 years, LEDs are not being mass produced cheaply enough in quantity and efficiency that make them attactive compared to CFLs. Why spend $17 on a 40 watt LED bulb when you can spend $4 on a 100 watt CFL and have $13 to spend on something else. LEDs are still a niche market for home lighting but I think the next 5 years will change that.

[Bloke]

I just got to know from a friend in Australia that the government is undertaking a policy to restrict and replace traditional lighing bulbs such as halogen bulbs with LED bulbs. Is that true?

So will other countries will do the same?

Will LED really be the future of household lighting?

Duo to the technical restriction, how may years we have to wait for LED lighting comes into truth?

I hired a PA and projector system to Metricon http://www.metricon.com.au/home a cuppla days ago and hung around to make sure there were no dramas during the presentation.

One of the subjects that came up was the move towards total LED lighting systems in home in the not too distant future.

Made sense to me

[Zlynx]

"just $17 (if you apply some widely available discounts) "

Could you be more specific? I think I got something in the mail that said 10% off any lighting products (including these) if using your Home Depot credit card. Is there anything else?

Trying to get my husband set up with an LED and dimmer switch in the office he's always complaining about.

Edit: I see on the Home Depot site some comments/problems about using them with some Lutron dimmers. The old style rotary/push dimmers should work okay, no? And be just as efficent?

[Lynx_Arc]

"just $17 (if you apply some widely available discounts) "

Could you be more specific? I think I got something in the mail that said 10% off any lighting products (including these) if using your Home Depot credit card. Is there anything else?

Trying to get my husband set up with an LED and dimmer switch in the office he's always complaining about.

Edit: I see on the Home Depot site some comments/problems about using them with some Lutron dimmers. The old style rotary/push dimmers should work okay, no? And be just as efficent?

If the LED bulb doesn't specifically say it can be used with a dimmer my bet is it won't work. LEDs have to drop the voltage down to useable levels and change it to DC and typically have a voltage regulator chip in them so varying the input (AC) may either not affect them at all or mess things up.

[Zlynx]

Looks like it is one of the dimmable bulbs.

"Dimmable - please reference approved dimmer list"

Guess I'll have to try one out!

[blasterman]

Why spend $17 on a 40 watt LED bulb when you can spend $4 on a 100 watt CFL and have $13 to spend on something else.

Because typical $4.00 CFLs have absurdly erratic quality control and last anywhere from 500-10,000 hours even when purchased in the same pack. Not to mention when you find a decent color you like you can't find it again when you replace them down the road. I can't stand incans for home lighting, but at least they are consistent.

Some of the latest higher quality LED retrofits I've seen in homes, like the latest Cree fixtures and even their immediate sphere of copycats, look pretty darn good. Nice color...nice longevity. Problem is they are expensive and still have a limited lumen footprint. Plus there's this nagging feeling that the technology seems to have apexed and has stopped advancing. Right now plasma has my interest and I'm real curious where that technology is going.

I've never been on the 'ban light-bulbs' band wagon, but would prefer a disposal tax be placed on the things (including CFLs). If anything needs to be banned it's dimmer switches - if you really want to save power then turn the lights off when you leave a room.

[Lynx_Arc]

Retrofits are not cost effective IMO, a well designed LED fixture could manage the output of CFLs but then you could use T8 and T5 tubes if you are buying a fixture. I see advantages LEDs need to take advantage of.
1)efficiency
2)smart multilevel fixtures (possible dimming)
3)replaceable LED modules to change/upgrade light output/color
4)motion/sensor type fixtures that turn on lights at dim levels when you walk by them.

[BB62]

That day has just about arrived. Home Depot is now selling Cree-based home light replacements at just $17 (if you apply some widely available discounts) per 40w equivalent bulb.

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/lightin...ulb-39632.html...

The bulb you've linked to says nothing about having CREE LEDs - unlike the CREE CR6 that is sold under the EcoSmart banner.

[purduephotog]

The bulb you've linked to says nothing about having CREE LEDs - unlike the CREE CR6 that is sold under the EcoSmart banner.

It's not a CREE Die in that unit- it is a , ehjhh, shoot I can't find the document, but it's a japanese die- 2x of them.

[LEDninja]

It's not a CREE Die in that unit- it is a , ehjhh, shoot I can't find the document, but it's a japanese die- 2x of them.

From DanManTX's post:
Home Depot’s $20 EcoSmart LED light: What’s inside?
http://www.edn.com/blog/PowerSource/..._s_inside_.php

[f9bob]

Will LED be the future of lighting?
No!
Led have to change the way we perceive and use light but not a total change.Metal halide has near full color spectrum.Fluorescent used in cinema lighting have flicker free capabilities,T5 in high wattage output are actual lumen volcano compared to any led developed till now.Green spectrum of sodium is still most efficient for lighting roads...etc.

[iineijbaldj]

LEDs in 2012 are beginning to work.
To make them work for you here's my opinion.

They work better than other lights when they can be put close, very close, to your work. That means in the kitchen they shouldn't
be 7' over your head in the ceiling light. They'll do well within a foot or two of your work.

Because they can run on low voltage they can be safer around wet, water, and people.

LEDs can be great for use when you use many of them , putting them exactly where needed. Imagine around the base
perimeter of a room I've experimented with 4 watt incandescnet lamps and 40 watts of them light a room well enough
to walk around, find things and safely move and sit and talk wtih people. Even reading is possible depending on the size of type.
What that means is that 10 watts, or less, of LED lights in the same low, down, well spread out locations will work the same
way.

What did that accomplish? It didn't replace ceiling lights. IT meant that a new phisical position must be found for lighting.
Rethinking where lighting works is a path of success for any lighting.

Solar and LED. Save 10% or more in energy and hundreds of dollars by using solar panels and LEDs at their native voltages.
A 12 volt panel can run LED lights directly. That means every indicator, closet, dark area can directly use solar panels during
the day. There's no conversion required from 12v or DC to 120v ac.

So .. building a home? Seriously consider installing a low voltage power line. here's other reasons.

1. Computers will run on 5 volts .. they do now run on 12 v dc and 5 vots and 3.3 volts dc. If you can plug in your computer
to a 12v or 5 volt line you will do away with the power supply, and the heat from it.

2. LEDs can run directly on low voltage

3. almost every electronic device runs on DC voltage under 30 volts. Most run on 12 volts or less. When we can do away
with 120 vac in the house we'll reduce
a. electrical noise
b. increase efficiency by using DC stepper motors in our A/C, blowers, and refrigerators.
c. charging devices with DC is what we do now but by converting A/C to DC. Why bother when DC is how solar panels create
power in the first place.

It's just one path of thinking. Just remember it when you build or upgrad

[lightwater]

6 months ago, after many years of searching, I finally replaced 12 of our most used mr16 50 watts halogens down lights. 8 in the lounge/dining with the Philips 10watt 60 degree 2700k & 4 x 3000k in a workroom. I would have done the kitchen as well but they were still not quite as bright as the halogen (also tried a 30 degree, it was bright enough in the spot but the spill was too dark)

So, the 2700k are a touch warmer pinker tone than the halogens & still ok in the same room as our halogens. The 3000k were a touch cool in our lounge/dining for our liking, but would be better for the kitchen with their crisper colour, but not quite bright enough for us. So I'm staying with the halogens in our kitchen for now & it's only 2 lights anyway in a white kitchen, doors & bench top. Hopefully there will be an equivalent to a 60 watt or 75 watt soon to stick in the old fittings. Still too expensive, so had to go without a few cases of beer to buy the LEDs, but I will be able to catch up later!

[OLED76]

I'm waiting for OLED lighting myself.

[rock_007]

I just got to know from a friend in Australia that the government is undertaking a policy to restrict and replace traditional lighing bulbs such as halogen bulbs with LED bulbs. Is that true?

So will other countries will do the same?

Will LED really be the future of household lighting?

Duo to the technical restriction, how may years we have to wait for LED lighting comes into truth?

As far as Incandescent lights are concerned, most of the government from many countries are imposing a ban on them, but LED is not yet popular for daily use due to its high price, other lights such as CFL's are still in use in daily chaos, Led Lighting have been put to use for street lighting and for many purposes but not yet too much popular. and for the question for how long will Led last, my answer is : "As long as some new technology which is better than even led for energy efficiency and all other aspects comes into the market, Led will last".

[Hooked on Fenix]

I think l.e.d.s will be used much more in household lighting within a year or two in the U.S.. The federal government is already banning regular lightbulbs. They just banned most T12 florescents. They will keep upping the efficiency standards until all florescents are off the market or are more expensive than l.e.d. bulbs. They want to get mercury and lead out of all bulbs on the market. L.e.d.s give the only option for this. I think that the point at which l.e.d. bulbs will be accepted is when you can purchase a 65 watt equivalent bulb (900 lumens) at over 80 lumens a watt lasting over 30,000 hours for under $10. The cheapest I have seen a bulb like this is $17 but only lasts 20,000 hours. L.e.d.s are already good enough for outdoor security floodlights. With code requirements in California, l.e.d.s are taking over in recessed lighting. For the most part, you can't use regular bulb recessed cans anymore. Florescents can't have screw in bases to meet code requirements in can lighting. It makes the fixture around $40 instead of $5. That cost makes l.e.d.s an affordable alternative since the cheapest option isn't allowed. I think the cost of screw in florescents will go up to around $10 a bulb within a year when they expand the efficiency requirements to include more than linear bulbs. Once that occurs, investment in l.e.d.s will take off and we will get $10 or less l.e.d. bulbs shortly after. I would prefer for the cost of all technologies to go down due to competition, but I think it's more likely that government interference will cause an eventual monopoly for l.e.d.s. causing higher overall prices for all bulbs. I have already seen the price of 4 foot T8s double from $2-$3 each to $5-$10 each since the new efficiency standards took effect. If regular bulbs are banned and the cost of florescents go up, more people will invest in l.e.d.s to reduce energy costs. In California, I see this beginning early next year as Cap and Trade takes effect toward the end of the year and people will be looking for more in energy savings.