RMSK, Inc.        

View Poll Results: How many good or bad Surefire clickie's have you encountered?

Voters
178. You may not vote on this poll
  • +3 for the OK pile

    63 35.39%
  • +2 for the OK pile

    35 19.66%
  • +1 for the OK pile

    55 30.90%
  • +2 for Not OK pile - problem now or soon in work

    3 1.69%
  • +1 for Not OK pile - problem now or soon in work

    8 4.49%
  • +2 for Not OK pile - problem fixed by Surefire

    18 10.11%
  • +1 for Not OK pile - problem fixed by Surefire

    36 20.22%
  • +2 for Not OK pile - problem NOT fixed by Surefire

    5 2.81%
  • +1 for Not OK pile - problem NOT fixed by Surefire

    6 3.37%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 89

Thread: FWIW: Poll results about 416 SFclickies - 24.5% initial problem rate

  1. #1
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,778

    Default FWIW: Poll results about 416 SFclickies - 24.5% initial problem rate

    So I tried collecting statistics about Jetbeam CLE quality once, and learned something about polling. Now, with everyone's indulgence, I thought I'd try collecting statistics on another energetic topic around here: the quality of Surefire clickie switches.

    Disclaimer: The poll results do not reflect true Surefire failure rates, which only Surefire knows for sure. It reflects only the experiences CPFers here report, which is the best we can do within our little forum. Still, I hope it will be an interesting piece of information.

    Concept: you bought some clicky type Surefire(s) from a dealer and had some experience regarding the switch: 1) it worked fine, 2) it had a problem which you will or are currently working with Surefire to resolve, 3) it had a problem which Surefire did resolve happily for you, or 4) it had a problem which Surefire did not satisfactorily resolve for you in (need a rule here) 3 months of trying or worse.

    The statistics part is that I'm providing poll choices for the number of each experience you got: if you had 1 good light, click "add 1 to the OK pile", if you had 2 good lights, click "add 2 to the OK pile", if you got 1 problem switch which Surefire or your own heroic efforts fixed for you within 3 months of asking, click "add 1 to the "problem fixed OK pile", and so on. This poll will let you make multiple choices so you can express a wide range of experiences: combinations of choices can show: 6 good switches, 3 bad switches in work, 3 bad switches fixed, and/or so on.

    Everyone seemed to understand the concept part OK in the CLE poll, so I hope it's still clear.

    Rules: I learned from the CLE poll that rules are important. The purpose for rules is so we can interpret our results. My mistake with the CLE poll was that I got statistics more about what people thought about the CLE than what the light itself did. So a better poll will need more rules. So please bear with me.

    Rule 1: Votes are private (anonymous). This poll is based on the honor system. You are what you do. Period.

    Rule 2: This poll is only for people who received new Surefires with a factory clicky switch or new SF clicky switches from a dealer. Private party B/S/T do NOT count. This is because a good or bad light can pass through many hands and therefire bias the results. I only want one data input from each light or separate SF switch. Non-clicky switches also don't count as I don't think there are any issues reported for those.

    Rule 3: Define good. I'd like good to be an objective event rather than an opinion, so: a switch is GOOD if, with at most minor initial tweaking (tightening retaining rings, cleaning contacts, oiling if you did that as prevention), it worked OK and has worked reliably to your satisfaction ever since.

    Rule 4: Define problem. The clickie switch didn't work right so you had to do something heroic (i.e. take the switch apart and fix it, bend contacts, whatever) or send it back or get the factory to send you another switch. Whatever your opinion, I'd like you to consider that a bad switch.

    Rule 5: Cutoff time for Surefire to fix the problem and be OK is 3 months from time they were informed or you sent light. If fixed less than 3 months, they did OK. If more, they did not do OK. This is because some are more patient than others.

    And that's it. I'll check back and calculate statistics if we get enough response. Thanks for your efforts, all.

    EDIT #1: If you bought a new clicky switch only from SF, then you can count that just like a whole light as we're focusing only on clicky switch performance here.

    If the options here (remember you can check multiple buttons to enter as many as 6 good switches or 3 bad ones of any category or any combination thereof) don't cover your situation, it's OK to have someone else enter the additional inputs required to cover your complete situation. "Honor system" means truth about what actually happened. Proxy voting to represent a true situation is OK with me.

    Edit #2:

    Final Results at 178 respondants, reporting on 416 new lights or new clicky switches:

    74.5% reported good switches out of the box.

    3.4% reported problems which are in the process of being fixed, 3.8% reported problems which couldn't be fixed within 3 months, and 17.3% reported problems which were fixed OK within 3 months.

    Total proportion of lights/switches reported with initial problems was 24.5%.
    Last edited by nerdgineer; 06-18-2007 at 08:57 PM. Reason: updating results

  2. #2
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    752

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switches (READ instructions first!)

    I have actually had exp. with four Surefire clickies and all were fine. All were Surefire E1Ls.
    A Government is most likely to be made up of a group of individuals who are likely not governed themselves.

  3. #3
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,778

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switches (READ instructions first!)

    New lesson learned: I need to provide a button which says "no input, I just wanted to push one of the buttons"....

    Whenever I look at this, I want to push a button, and I wrote the darn post. It's very annoying...

  4. #4
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    551

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switches (READ instructions first!)

    I had one clicky that was flaky. Relaced immediately by dealer when I took the light back.

    [EDIT]I have had 3 other good clickies though.
    Last edited by GeorgePaul; 05-08-2007 at 05:20 PM.

  5. #5
    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    COLORado spRINGs
    Posts
    7,544

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switches (READ instructions first!)

    "no input, I just wanted to push one of the buttons"....
    LOL, I wanna push a button!!!!
    -Eric

  6. #6
    Flashaholic* KeyGrip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Back in Santa Cruz
    Posts
    2,413

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switches (READ instructions first!)

    Got an L4 with a sticky tailcap. SF replaced it and, this is my favorite part, it started working again and has been going strong for months.
    "Et lux in tenebris lucet"

  7. #7
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,778

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switches (READ instructions first!)

    Poll analysis at 38 respondants, reporting on 96 new lights:

    75% had good switches.

    2% had problems which are in the process of being fixed, 1% had problems which couldn't be fixed within 3 months, and 23% had problems which were fixed OK.

    Total proportion of lights received with problems was 25%.

  8. #8
    Flashaholic schrenz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    290

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switches (READ instructions first!)

    Mhhh, sometimes these polls seem to be a little bit ominous, I can't explain myself, why I never had a problem with my 8 SF Clickies.

    Best
    Jens
    Sureholic ===<|
    "mehr Licht" (J.W.v.Goethe 1832)
    "more light"

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* MikeSalt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Stoke On Trent, Staffordshire, UK
    Posts
    1,688

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switches (READ instructions first!)

    There's a good spread of results. I would definately expect it weighted more towards the top end for something so expensive.

  10. #10

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switches (READ instructions first!)

    What does "problem now or soon in work" mean? Can you pick that and pick "problem NOT fixed by Surefire", or do you have to pick one or the other for the same light?

  11. #11
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Baden.at
    Posts
    4,457

    Default

    why is it reserved to complete lights only?

    f.e. I just bought a Z59 for my old 6P.
    When I consider that ridiculus price, the feel of the switch is bad.
    But would that be a "problem"?
    Which one, as it works and will not get changed by anyone
    .
    .
    .

    PS: wow! at time to type this the results are that 1/3 of about 90 switches were defective.
    Wonder what the "SF and nothing else and no critics allowed"-ppl say to this
    Last edited by yellow; 05-09-2007 at 10:24 AM.

  12. #12
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,778

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switches (READ instructions first!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vandelay
    What does "problem now or soon in work" mean? Can you pick that and pick "problem NOT fixed by Surefire", or do you have to pick one or the other for the same light?
    No. I'd prefer that you pick one or the other input for any single light. Problem now or soon in work means you have a problem and it is not resolved yet so you can't yet say whether it was resolved successfully yet or not. If it is resolved successfully, then you pick the "fixed OK" button. If not resolved in (my arbitrary rule) 3 months, then you picked the "not fixed" button. If you haven't sent it in yet or haven't gotten a final response yet and 3 months hasn't gone by yet, then it's the "still in work" button.

    Each light should only generate one case. Multiple lights can activate multiple buttons. If you have 8 clicky SFs, 5 are good, 2 were bad but fixed, and 1 is in work, then you hit the multiple buttons of: +3 good, +2 good, +2 bad but fixed, +1 bad and in work.

    Sorry it's so complicated but I don't know a simpler way to get clear results - and even this set of choices requires some compromises.
    Last edited by nerdgineer; 05-09-2007 at 10:52 AM.

  13. #13
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,778

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switches (READ instructions first!)

    Quote Originally Posted by yellow
    why is it reserved to complete lights only?...
    Good question. Answer: because I wasn't thinking (another lesson learned...)

    Since we're looking at SF clicky performance, I would count a switch purchased new from Surefire to be the same as a clicky light for purposes of this poll. If you bought a switch and it was good or bad, you can enter it in the poll just like it was a whole light.

  14. #14
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,778

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switches (READ instructions first!)

    Poll analysis at 70 respondants, reporting on 175 new lights or new clicky switches:

    77% reported good switches.

    1.7% reported problems which are in the process of being fixed, 6.3% reported problems which couldn't be fixed within 3 months, and 15% reported problems which were fixed OK within 3 months.

    Total proportion of lights/switches reported with problems was 23%.
    Last edited by nerdgineer; 05-09-2007 at 12:28 PM.

  15. #15
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,778

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switches (READ instructions first!)

    Quote Originally Posted by schrenz
    ..I never had a problem with my 8 SF Clickies...
    I'm sorry I couldn't make poll options to cover all the high SF achievers. As post #13 above notes, it's OK to count a switch purchased new from a SF dealer just like a whole light.

    You can enter your results into the poll for 6 of the good switches by clicking +1 good, +2 good, and +3 good, and submitting. As for the other 2, maybe you can PM someone or a friend to fill in the extra +2 good for you. Since I haven't made a vote yet, I'll offer to add the 2 extra ones for you, or anyone else (I can only do this once, of course).

    As I said, this poll is on the honor system, relative to ground truth. I have no problems with arrangements for proxy votes being cast to cover cases which are outside the poll options I allowed for.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by nerdgineer; 05-09-2007 at 10:49 AM.

  16. #16
    Flashaholic* luigi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Florida, US / Buenos Aires, Argentina
    Posts
    539

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switches (READ instructions first!)

    I don't want to be a statistical PITA but if you ask about problems you get answers from people with problems (mostly). The ones with bad switches will want to be here to show their problems, but a good percentage of the users with good switches will not even read the thread, vote or do anything.

    Anyway I hope the poll serves your purposes, I just hope you don't claim "X% of Surefire switches are deffective"

    Luigi
    Visit my EDCreviews weblog.

  17. #17
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,778

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switches (READ instructions first!)

    Quote Originally Posted by luigi
    I don't want to be a statistical PITA but if you ask about problems you get answers from people with problems (mostly). The ones with bad switches will want to be here to show their problems, but a good percentage of the users with good switches will not even read the thread, vote or do anything.

    Anyway I hope the poll serves your purposes, I just hope you don't claim "X% of Surefire switches are deffective"

    Luigi
    Probably all true. It's just that before (in the CLE poll case), we only had anecdotal information which was even more biased toward problems (few would post to say their CLE was fine). A poll at least gives owners of good items an easy way to be heard.

    In the CLE case, I got responses on something like 180 lights at a time when there were only 200 pre-sale lights plus prototypes (and many Asian owners who perhaps were not reading CPF) out there so I thought the insight provided was useful.

    I don't know how many clickie SF lights and switches are out in CPF land, but having numbers on a few hundred (thousand?) would provide an interesting context for the occasional SF clicky discussions I see...

    And of course, the analysis is only for how the poll responses break down, and I've changed the title accordingly. Only Surefire knows how many warranty repairs they get vs. their total sales.
    Last edited by nerdgineer; 05-09-2007 at 12:32 PM.

  18. #18
    Flashaholic* MikeSalt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Stoke On Trent, Staffordshire, UK
    Posts
    1,688

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switches (READ instructions first!)

    Of course, SureFire fans tend to be particularly devout, therefore almost all of them will post, giving fair results.

  19. #19
    Flashaholic* chevrofreak's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Billings, Montana, USA
    Posts
    2,544

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switches (READ instructions first!)

    The Z57 on my E2e has been flawless.

  20. #20
    *Flashaholic* Size15's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Kettering, England
    Posts
    18,415

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switches (READ instructions first!)

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSalt
    Of course, SureFire fans tend to be particularly devout, therefore almost all of them will post, giving fair results.
    Less than 100 members responding out of a possible 25,000 supports that point of view?

  21. #21
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,778

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switch experiences (READ instructions first!)

    Quote Originally Posted by yellow
    ...I just bought a Z59 for my old 6P.
    When I consider that ridiculus price, the feel of the switch is bad.
    But would that be a "problem"? ..
    To keep things simple, if the switch works reliably (turns on/off, no flicker), I'd call that "good"...

  22. #22

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switches (READ instructions first!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Size15's
    Less than 100 members responding out of a possible 25,000 supports that point of view?
    That's 25,000 members who have ever registered. The number of active members is probably a small fraction of that. If there are 2,500 posts every day (as has been mentioned recently) and the average number of posts per day for each user is just 5, that puts the number of unique users each day at somewhere near 500. If we say that each member logs in only once a week, we get 3,500. That number is likely sort of close, since not everyone owns a SF clickie and some people have more than one. No matter how you slice it, that's nowhere near 25,000.

    And it's been, what, three days?

    P.S.: If this post is somehow out of line, just say the word and it's gone.

  23. #23
    *Flashaholic* Size15's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Kettering, England
    Posts
    18,415

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switch experiences (READ instructions first!)

    Not out of line, but I do have some actual data for you:

    08-May-07 2878 Users Active, 1836 new posts
    09-May-07 2829 Users Active, 1654 new posts

    Your argument is not based on accurate data. I'll see what I can do to help with that.

    Al

  24. #24
    Flashaholic* MikeSalt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Stoke On Trent, Staffordshire, UK
    Posts
    1,688

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switch experiences (READ instructions first!)

    We'll see, I reckon a 20% cross section of active users (about 560) should pretty much cover the SureFire population. Then we'll know for sure. Get posting

  25. #25
    Flashaholic* TORCH_BOY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Australia, Vic
    Posts
    4,243

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switch experiences (READ instructions first!)

    Just the one

  26. #26

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switch experiences (READ instructions first!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Size15's
    Not out of line, but I do have some actual data for you:

    08-May-07 2878 Users Active, 1836 new posts
    09-May-07 2829 Users Active, 1654 new posts

    Your argument is not based on accurate data. I'll see what I can do to help with that.

    Al
    Whoa, looks like I was way off with the average posts per day per person. I'm quite surprised that so many members log in but don't post anything.

    Thanks for the heads-up!

    As far as 20% of active users owning a SF clickie, that seems like a pretty good approximation...

  27. #27
    Flashaholic* Brozneo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wellington, NZL
    Posts
    582

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switches (READ instructions first!)

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyGrip
    Got an L4 with a sticky tailcap. SF replaced it and, this is my favorite part, it started working again and has been going strong for months.
    Ditto
    BROZNEO

  28. #28
    *Flashaholic* Size15's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Kettering, England
    Posts
    18,415

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switch experiences (READ instructions first!)

    Some more data...
    Flashlight manufacturers members list as their favourite
    SureFire - 566
    Fenix - 95
    Arc - 88
    HDS - 77
    Streamlight - 64
    McGizmo - 54
    Inova - 52
    Maglite - 26
    Pelican - 14
    Pila/Wolfeyes - 13
    Night-Ops/Gladius - 8

    I realise I have not searched data for every possible manufacturer
    (If you'd like me to add one to the list, please pm me)

    This is a search of all 25,000 members.

    Of the 1057 members above, 54% of them state that SureFire is their favourite manufacturer.
    Based on this data I don't feel that your reckoning of 20% is sufficient.
    What I could do is use the members who have responded to the poll as the data set to see which manufacturers (if any) they say is their favourite?

    I can certainly see that trying to put this poll in context is very difficult. There is certainly a lot of information missing before a poll on CPF can be qualified, let alone any conclusions drawn for the CPF community. How the poll relates to the real world will be even more difficult to determine (I don't think it will be possible).

    Al
    Last edited by Size15's; 05-10-2007 at 07:05 AM.

  29. #29
    *Flashaholic* KevinL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    At World's End
    Posts
    5,851

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switch experiences (READ instructions first!)

    Three clickies here, one is on my 'early adopter' U2, one on a complete L4 in sealed box from Lighthound and another Z57 new in bag from Lighthound. Never experienced a problem. The U2 is one of the Nov '04 ones and has been through hell, never let me down. Wish I could say everything in life was this good!

    The A2 twisty on the other hand is giving a small issue, the main beam is out of regulation even on fresh cells - might hafta talk to SF about that.


    Devout? Maybe. But I've also had a couple of Fenixes with clickies and a HDS B60 that have never let me down either, so that's cool '

    As for how relevant the data is, I'll just quote a commonly used line from those hawking investment products.. past performance is no indicator of future returns
    Celebrating the ROP.. 5 years of history

  30. #30
    Super Moderator
    DM51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Borg cube #51
    Posts
    13,339

    Default Re: STATISTICS about Surefire clickie switch experiences (READ instructions first!)

    I think you should reconsider your Rule 2:
    Rule 2: This poll is only for people who received new Surefires with a factory clicky switch or new SF clicky switches from a dealer. Private party B/S/T do NOT count. This is because a good or bad light can pass through many hands and therefire bias the results. I only want one data input from each light or separate SF switch. Non-clicky switches also don't count as I don't think there are any issues reported for those.
    My reasons for suggesting an amendment to this rule are as follows:

    1. Lights acquired 2nd-hand via B/S/T etc are unlikely to have defective switches on arrival, unless they were bought in the knowledge that that was the case.

    2. They could however go wrong later and surely the statistics should reflect ALL problems.

    3. Equally, if the light is a good one when it is acquired, the fact that it continues to be good should be reflected in the statistics.

    4. Lights that change hands are more likely to be given rough (ie more realistic) treatment.

    5. The entire lifetime of a light is more likely to be represented, not just the period when it is relatively new.

    6. (Real reason) All my Surefires are 2nd-hand and I WANNA VOTE !!!!!!
    Resistance is futile...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •