Technological obsolescence in our times

[Screehopper]

Now speaking of things I see going away soon, it looks like paper checks are getting pretty close to obsolete with electronic bill paying. I'm guessing a few more years and they're history.

Pennies and nickels should be history by now as they cost more to produce than their face value. Hopefully in a few years. Pennies especially are just a nuisance at this point.

I went paperless on most of the bills (for the companies that have that option). It's great since I just file electronic versions instead of stacks of paper. I love being able to pay bills online.

In countries like New Zealand they don't have a 1 cent. They just round up or down. In the end, after averaging all the roundings it comes out relatively the same. And to make life easier, generally products are sold at "even" numbers like 1 dollar, 2 dollar, 2.50 dollar with taxes already included. Math is easy that way. None of that .99 cents stuff.

[TorchBoy]

"In countries like New Zealand" we don't have a 1c, 2c, and within the last year, 5c. The smallest coin we now have is 10c, which was changed to copper plated steel at the same time the 5c was eliminated. Very very few products are sold in "even" amounts. Don't get me started on that - it's a sales gimmick that isn't obsolete yet. And sales tax at a fiddly 12.5% (the original 10% was much easier to work out) is still not included in many products, especially computers and computer-related items.

Getting rid of cash transactions is a good thing for governments. With the huge increase here in electronic transactions the tax take has increased hugely... but even with tax surpluses of several billion dollars (in a country of a bit over 4 million) we still haven't seen tax cuts or significantly increased spending on health, education, police, etc.

On the subject of police, a couple of days ago a friend told me about a pharmacy near her that suffered a ram raid. The neighbouring video hire shop's security cameras filmed it but the police were too busy to follow it up - they said the shop's insurance would cover it. I really don't think that security camera technology combined with insurance companies render the underfunded police technologically obsolete.

[Dynacolt]

Glad you enjoyed(?!) Ted
Back on topic, I'd forgotten about the old tech mags - I giggle at some of their 'predictions', and marvel at how other technologies have actually continued to develop to the point that a lot of the cutting edge devices are not entirely new but are the fruition of incremental improvements.

The approach of the end of hard cash transactions? Will we see buskers with
wireless smart-card terminals

Dave.

[Mike Painter]

And just as Railroad doesn't go everywhere people are it also doesn't go everywhere freight needs to go. Containers get pulled up and down Hwy 59 and Hwy 45 CONSTANTLY. Freight companies bring stuff to our shop on 18 wheelers.

I STILL don't think there will be a sea change while I'm alive.

There could be if the people demanded that the railroad tracks be put back.
Most urban systems disappeared between 45 and 56 or so with General Motors being responsible for much of it.

I'd bet that 99% of America is well within 10 miles of where there used to be a railroad track.

I live near Chico, California which is about ten miles from the Sacramento river. There is an old stone house near a dried up creek. 100 years ago the river and the creek were how tons of supplies got there.
Peteluma California became the egg capitol of the world for many years because in the early days they used boats to transport eggs to San Francisco.

I am *NOT* a fan of the "good old days", for the most part they were not, but water and rail still remain the cheapest way to ship things.
Bring back the Erie Canal!

[turbodog]

...
Now speaking of things I see going away soon, it looks like paper checks are getting pretty close to obsolete with electronic bill paying. I'm guessing a few more years and they're history.

...

And how much crack have you smoked today?

Checks aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Maybe the consumer part is dropping _some_, but B2B is alive and kicking. And it's simply not going to change.

And cash.... I always knew that there was a huge underground cash economy. Lately I have become a small part of just an edge of it and it is about 1000x larger than I ever imagined.

[jtr1962]

Checks aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Maybe the consumer part is dropping _some_, but B2B is alive and kicking. And it's simply not going to change.

http://www.treasuryandrisk.com/article.php?article=927

To quote the last line in the article:

BOC (back-office conversion) allows companies receiving checks to move check conversion to an efficient back-office operation and receive next-day availability. It will remove one of the last big pockets of check payments and may be the final step before checks simply disappear and all payments are originated electronically, he predicts “It is taking us where we all want to be".

And cash.... I always knew that there was a huge underground cash economy. Lately I have become a small part of just an edge of it and it is about 1000x larger than I ever imagined.

Yep, true. I don't see hard cash disappearing anytime soon, either, as much as governments might like it to so they could tax every dime. Regardless, I still wish they would get rid of the penny and nickel, plus get the dollar coin circulating.

[Fallingwater]

I'm also thrilled that you're one of the few people who actually uses an SUV for what it's designed for

I'll just point out that most SUVs are not actually designed for off-road.
An unmodified, un-bling-blinged SUV will do better offroad than a family sedan (due to larger wheels, longer suspension and more space inbetween its floor and the terrain), but not quite as much as one would think. It takes surprisingly little to get a SUV stuck, even the large ones like the Hummers.
There are a few exceptions that can genuinely do some pretty serious off-roading (Cayenne, Land Rovers...), but the average suv can't.

Fallingwater those knobs are the most extreme example of insane consumerism I have ever seen in my life!

Let me enlighten you some more...

do you think they sold ANY?

Probably. The world is full of dumb people. It makes me want to do the same thing myself...

Sorry if this post is a little off-topic, but I think it's an amusing adjunct to fallingwater's wooden knobs: http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm
(I spend probably excessive amounts on my hifi, but I do still have a rational brain)

Hahaha, I didn't know those... thanks for the laugh

I don't see hard cash disappearing anytime soon

I sure hope it never does.
Call me paranoid, but I want to be able to buy something without someone telling me "we know you bought it".

[Dynacolt]

Thanks for the info on the powercord, I think I need one to smooth the cycles of my microwave. Seriously though, cruddy power in through perfect powercord = cruddy power out the other side. I think if I could discern the difference, I'd be put away for a few months and given some happy pills
Did you see the clock they are sellling to improve the soound?
Or what about this: http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina64.htm or anything else they are selling - true technology in the new age!!!

Dave.

[TedTheLed]

[Manzerick]

LOL

I think he meant to say "Personal" Checks are getting there.

I nearly spit out my coffee when i read this!!

And how much crack have you smoked today?

[knot]

What does this have to with the main topic of the thread?

I probably wouldn't be any happier living where you are than you would be in Flushing

It has to do with your posts and the reasons for your aversion to cars and owning a car. Where I live, it's a pleasure.

I had an aversion to traffic, smog, crowds - so I moved from the suburbs of Los Angeles the the great northwest.

Plenty of amenities, ethnic foods, wide array of things to do up here - only minutes away.

Spectacular views, cleaner air quality, extremely low crime rate........

No sales tax in Oregon (just minutes away) and no income tax in Washington.

So you say you wouldn't want to live here?



My car isn't a "crossover" SUV. It has a truck frame and was built for off-road.

I agree with eliminating the pennies.

[Fallingwater]

I can tell you *I* wouldn't want to live there.
And just to make you understand why, I'll tell you that I'd want nothing more than to live in Coruscant
Since a planet-world does not yet exist, I'll be happy with the largest metropolises

[knot]

I can tell you *I* wouldn't want to live there.
And just to make you understand why, I'll tell you that I'd want nothing more than to live in Coruscant
Since a planet-world does not yet exist, I'll be happy with the largest metropolises

Having tasted both sides and having grown up in one of the largest - Los Angeles, with the smog and congestion, perhaps you can understand why I chose to live in a countryside with a large enough city within minutes away: Portland Oregon.

The smog in LA was so bad the San Gabriel mountains would completely disappear from view. It's so lush with green forests up here, I feel "one" with nature.

Eww...

Throughout the thousands of generations of galactic history, the entire surface of Coruscant has been covered over by sprawling skyscrapers and cities. The planet's oceans have all been drained and kept in vast underground caverns for future reuse. The only body of water visible is the Western Sea, a body of water created artificially for tourists and natives alike.

Oh yeah - Portland Oregon, per capita, is the strip club capitol of the United States.

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

Myself having lived where a paper thin wall was about 8 feet from my neighbors paper thin wall to up here where I could almost not throw a baseball and hit my neighbors house....

I KNOW I'd never make it in a place like NYC!

And while I'm FORCED to off road now and again by where our customers work, I'd rather NOT!

I too SHUDDER to think of the day when cash doesn't work any more!!!

And fortunately I find CDs and MPGs to sound fine for my ears!

[jtr1962]

So you say you wouldn't want to live here?

I would never make it anyplace where most of my shopping wasn't within walking distance as it is now. I just don't want the expense or headaches of owning a car, plus I like walking while I'm also running errands, so anyplace where a car is needed is out for me. Oh, and with my carpal tunnel I doubt I could drive consistently, so that's a practical reason (not even taking into account my aversion to auto fumes). And I really couldn't afford one anyway. Like I said, it's not perfect here, but I suspect we'll make major inroads to solving the pollution problem in the next decade. Once that's done, I really ran out of things to complain about.

P.S. I lived in a fairly suburban/rural in college. It just didn't agree with me. I suppose the sameness of everything. One thing I like about living in a big city is things change even from month to month. It keeps things interesting. I think Coruscant might actually be my speed also.

I KNOW I'd never make it in a place like NYC!

If you like to drive, or need to drive for your job, NYC is definitely NOT the place to be. I think everyone can agree on that.

[knot]

I would never make it anyplace where most of my shopping wasn't within walking distance as it is now.

How do you carry groceries and other purchased items? I buy one or two weeks worth of groceries and load it into my car.

Sure, there's a lot to do in the city but I don't want to limit myself to the concrete jungle when I can visit the great outdoors in my own space. There is no "sameness of everything" if you stop to smell the roses. Every view is spectacular and foliage changes with the terrain at differing levels of altitude - and waterfalls are clean enough to drink from. I grew up in the city. The city is boring to me.

Owning a car isn't a "headache" for me. Like I said, it's a pleasure to be able to go exactly where I want to, whenever I want to. It's a freedom and privacy I wouldn't want to give up. Sitting with a bunch of people, who may be sick as well, is not my idea of headache relief.

I like camping and exploring our country's roads and off roads. There is no public transportation to campgrounds.

Some people like to live in New Orleans, Florida, or NYC - so they put up with the negatives by sacrificing some freedoms or "freedoms from" IMO, it's stupid to live below sea level.

Just sayin'.......

[Diesel_Bomber]

Owning a car isn't a "headache" for me. Like I said, it's a pleasure to be able to go exactly where I want to, whenever I want to. It's a freedom and privacy I wouldn't want to give up. Sitting with a bunch of people, who may be sick as well, is not my idea of headache relief.

[jtr1962]

How do you carry groceries and other purchased items? I buy one or two weeks worth of groceries and load it into my car.

I have no problems carrying 20 or 30 pounds of groceries from Pathmark (about three-quarters of a mile away). I even carried home a bench grinder (~40 pounds) once from a store in the same shopping center. It helps to keep me in some semblance of half-way decent shape. Where there's a will there's a way. I've even seen people moving furniture on the subway. There are two other, smaller stores closer as well if I'm not in the mood to carry heavy loads. Large items like furniture, or heavy items from Home Depot, I can have delivered. Smaller large items like maybe a laser printer I can manage on the bus if need be but I get better deals mail order anyway.

Regarding public transit, as strange as it may seem to those who covet the privacy of an auto, I actually like traveling with other people. I've met many interesting people in the course of my travels, including my last gf, on the subway. I just can't think of a better way to see large numbers of different people every day than traveling on the subway. Sure, I don't like sitting near a smelly homeless person, or anyone else with issues, but I don't have to. I just change my seat, get up and stand, or move to another car. Also, fact is whether you travel by car or train, unless you're living the life of a hermit sooner or later you come into contact with groups of people from whom you can catch illnesses. It annoys me when people act like only lepers ride on public transport. Most of the people I see are just workers, students, or people out to have a good time. It's a shame the media for years gave public transit an undeserved bad rap.

Not big on camping here so it's a non-issue that public transit doesn't go there. I get bitten enough by mosquitoes just mowing my small lawn. Last summer I was bedridden for two weeks with a fever running as high as 105 soon after noticing a bunch of bites. Probably West Nile, but no way to be sure. In any case, given all the even worse things you can catch in the bush, I'll pass. Any beauty is not worth it to me unless you can get rid of the bugs. Maybe I'd like to see Antarctica one day though. Sounds fascinating to me as it's about as far removed from civilization as you can get. It's not that I can't appreciate nature. I certainly can as much as anyone, so I can see where you're coming from. It's just that "roughing it" in order to do so isn't worth it to me. Neither is owning a car.

I agree with you 100% about living below sea level. New Orleans is still a disaster waiting to happen. If the time comes that NYC ends up below sea level from global warming then it's time to move. I just don't trust a system of dikes, levees, or seawalls to keep me safe.

[KC2IXE]

I live Oh, 2-3 miles from JTR1962, and I have a garage, driveway, and quiet streets, but my lot size is only 40x100

I've lived in suburbia, and has spent a LOT of time in rural areas - I'll tell you MY opinion

Suburbia stinks - it's too spread out to walk to the local stores, etc, but people are too close together to enjoy rural activities - can't shoot skeet in the backyard, if you setup a forge, the neighbors don't like it etc

City living - I don't love it - but there are nice points, everything is there. What would probably be better in MY opinion is "small town", where you can walk to thingsm but still not be crammed next to other people

Rural. It has the disadvantage of NOT being able to walk to things, but the big advantage of your neighbors being far enough away not to be in your face

I'm actually VERY tired of living in NYC, but...

[jtr1962]

I live Oh, 2-3 miles from JTR1962, and I have a garage, driveway, and quiet streets, but my lot size is only 40x100

Same as me (shot of where I live this past Christmas):

Suburbia stinks - it's too spread out to walk to the local stores, etc, but people are too close together to enjoy rural activities - can't shoot skeet in the backyard, if you setup a forge, the neighbors don't like it etc

Suburbia IMHO is the worst of both worlds. Although I prefer city living I could probably adjust to something very rural where I'm mostly self-sufficient (i.e. growing most of my own food, generating my own power, etc). It would likely still be too quiet for my taste, but so long as there's no need to drive frequently I might OK. Suburbia though forget about it. Not enough land to be self-sufficient, enough traffic to make a good amount of pollution, and the need to drive pretty much anywhere. Plus it's boring as all hell-not enough either manmade or natural to be interesting. My main impression traveling through suburbia is the sameness of it. You can drive or cycle for three hours yet feel as if you're still in the same place.

I'm actually VERY tired of living in NYC, but...

I'm actually very tired of the pollution from cars plus noise from the airports (it's probably not as bad where you are). I feel the pollution problem will more or less be mitigated greatly as gas prices continue to rise. That will probably decrease air travel a bit to help with the noise problem, along with the retirement of older, noiser aircraft. Now if only we could get a subway closer. Still, overall the disadvantages are outweighed by the advantages, at least for the present. I'm sure some of those here who like the country will say the same thing.

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

C'est la vie!

To each his own.

I'd rather live here on 2.5 acres that needs mowing about every 5 days than live where I did prior.

Yes, I have to drive to get anywhere. And I don't see plays or movies much anymore as I'm to tired to be up much past 10pm.

But it's a GOOD kind of tired!

[TedTheLed]

I moved from 26th street and 9th avenue in Manhattan to here: tedsplace(dot)com (slideshow starts after a while)

..a small apartment in a crowded noisey city to the middle of this chaparral meadow by the sea.. this is better.

[KC2IXE]

My big complaint right now is the Subway - I take the 1 train to 66th. That stop has 3 MAJOR problems - 3 High Schools. The stop is way over crowded, they usually have to have 5-6 Police Officers on the platform, the kids think it's fun to scream to their friends on the platform across the tracks. After 10 years commuting to this stop, I've had enough (the summers are better, but then you get the HEAT instead of the kids)

For 10+ years before that, I went down to Wall St - the commute was a lot more civil

Once you are truely rural (or at least exurban) driving isn't a chore, it's something you do. Traffic is having 1 car in front of you, and you probably know who it is, and where he is going to turn. I've spent enough time in that kind of situation that I know it. _I_ like it, but it is different. You don't plan on running to the local store - you PLAN your shopping, and if you work in town (most do) you do it on the way home from work

IF I could twist SWMBOs arm, I'd be small town/rural, and deal with the commute (but I want to be close enough to town to get broadband). I want to live where a 5 acre lot is about as small as they get. LOTS of trees is a good thing. The old stone walls and woods roads are good. Where you have a small patch of grass that you mow sometimes because you feel like it, and it just tapers off into the woods

Sigh

Probably the closest I'll ever come to it is a small vacation house someday.

Sometimes in the fall, I nominally go hunting at a friends place - often times, we are not even carrying anything to hunt with. It's just time to go out in the woods, sit quietly, away from people, and re-connect with nature, instead of the concrete that is rapidly replacing the trees that were in Flushing

[winston]

I had an aversion to traffic, smog, crowds - so I moved from the suburbs of Los Angeles the the great northwest.

Plenty of amenities, ethnic foods, wide array of things to do up here - only minutes away.

I agree with eliminating the pennies.

Looking through sentimental eyes at the town one thinks of as home sometimes gets unfairly labeled dishonest, or at the very least naive; but I think it's a commendable and constructive way to express identification with a community. I support genuine feelings of civic pride, and celebrate good neighbors everywhere.

I just don't know how to break this to you gently... I'm a little concerned that you include ethnic foods among the many virtues of Washington. In fact, I worry you may have caught that 105 degree fever from jtr1962.

I love the state of Washington, and have lived in her towns - from Enumclaw to Ellensburg, Bellevue to Bellingham, Seattle to Snohomish, and twice in each of the Olympia/Lacey/Tumwater townettes - and have never found anything romotely resembling an acceptable enchilada, a top-notch taco, or even a satisfactory ceviche.

Ethnic foods in Washington? Que lastima.... Que lastima....
Gracias,
-Winston

I'm with you on the whole pennies thing; they serve no purpose other than weighing me down when I'm trying to walk somewhere. Useless ballast.

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

It is difficult to find GOOD Enchiladas or much of ANYTHING besides Hamburgers or Pizza within a decent drive of here, and we have more Mexicans than average!

Still, I'd rather be here than in Houston. People tend to be a WHOLE lot nicer.

[winston]

Still, I'd rather be here than in Houston. People tend to be a WHOLE lot nicer.

That goes a long way. Good Mexican food is no substitute for good folks.
-Winston

[Raven]

cameras
vcrs
laser disc
record players
televisions
cassettes
8 track tapes

[Fallingwater]

laser disc
record players
cassettes
8 track tapes

I thought these were obsolete already...

televisions

I would really love it if television was obsolete, but I'm afraid people are going to keep watching it for a long time...

[LukeA]

I would really love it if television was obsolete, but I'm afraid people are going to keep watching it for a long time...

Maybe tube sets?

[Burgess]

Still an interesting thread !


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