China sentences former food and drugs chief to death

Earlier threads discussed Chinese culpability for poisonous pet food, deadly cough syrup, and tainted toothpaste.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/china/story/0,,2090404,00.html

Scapegoat or justice served?

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Both. Can't get them all, but that's one...

I still don't think I''m going to buy any Chinese food products (that I can identify) until I hear a few years of no problem reports.

I will however continue to be willing to buy Fenixes, if there's a good sale....

Justice is far from being served but, at least its starting at the top. Now the perverbial "poop" needs to roll downhill. They need to go after the companies that are involved and any that gave bribes. Maybe the United States needs to take a lesson in proper punishment. If there is no deterrent to the crime, it will continue. :whoopin:

It's a pity we don't do that here. If public officials knew they would have a death sentence hanging over them if they took bribes, or were even grossly incompetent, you might get a better quality of people going into public service. And I love the way disgraced public officials in Japan commit suicide. It's not so much their death that matters, but rather the symbolism involved taking responsibility for your actions (instead of blaming everyone and everything for your own shortcomings as public officials do here).

I also tend to agree that this official may be being made a scapegoat to some extent, but the fact is the buck stops at the top. As a leader, you are responsible for everything that happens under your watch.

Now, we need to send a few of our CEOs of corporations over there to stand trial. Those that tried to save a few bucks by bypassing domestic manufacturing regulations through the buying of imported goods produced without the regulations, should be held criminally responsible and responsible for the civil liabilities involved. Using ingredients produced abroad doesn't release a corporation from fully testing the safety of a product against domestic expectations.

jtr1962 said:

It's a pity we don't do that here. If public officials knew they would have a death sentence hanging over them if they took bribes, or were even grossly incompetent, you might get a better quality of people going into public service. And I love the way disgraced public officials in Japan commit suicide. It's not so much their death that matters, but rather the symbolism involved taking responsibility for your actions (instead of blaming everyone and everything for your own shortcomings as public officials do here).

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Same as here... i think its one of the problem of most western systems: "small criminals" get punished more than big criminals (i.e. corrupt politican).
Personally i think we should start to take the crimes of "big" criminals more serious and act accordingly.

Usually those *******s just get fired. (If even that.) No problem for them thought, they'll get a job in the industry or something. High officals almost always find a new job. So basically, i don't feel they don't get any "real" punishment.
Althought i think putting the *******s in jail for the rest of theyr life would be better, if i have to weigh no punishment at all against the death penality ...bring on the guillotine.


Justice served or scapegoat? A little bit of both, i think.

You need more than 1 person for a sucessful bribery. So where's the rest? Line 'em all up.

For our politicians, I think taking back their generous Federal pensions would be a suitable punishment. They are motivated by money so take it from them. I'd like to see a few retired Congressman working at convenience stores and dealing with the general public.

h_nu said:

For our politicians, I think taking back their generous Federal pensions would be a suitable punishment. They are motivated by money so take it from them. I'd like to see a few retired Congressman working at convenience stores and dealing with the general public.

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:twothumbs

Not a bad idea actually. The only thing is most Congress critters are already rich even without their pensions so you would need to go a bit further. I'd say take $100 for every $1 in ill-gotten gains, in addition to canceling their pensions. That ought to put just about all but the very richest corrupt politicians in the poor house. The sight of an ex-politician bicycling to work at 7-Eleven (because they can't afford a car) would make a great sound bite on the evening news. :devil: Maybe the idea could be extended to corrupt executives in private industry as well.

As an aside, the reason for the ridiculously generous pensions politicians at all levels of government vote themselves is because they're pretty much unemployable once their term ends except maybe to fill hot air balloons. This is doubly true of the NYC Council.

h_nu said:

They are motivated by money so take it from them. I'd like to see a few retired Congressman working at convenience stores and dealing with the general public.

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Mark Twain wrote something to the effect that politicians constitute America's only native criminal class.

Think it was H.L. Mencken that first wrote: "We have the best Congress money can buy."

P.J. O'Rourke calls our Congress "The Parliament of Whores" - which is the title of a book he wrote about Congress.


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I know there may be some who feel this is a harsh sentence to be handed down on this person however I have to say bravo to China. They certainly know how to send a message to others and I agree that we could learn a few things from them as far as crime and punishment is concerned.

I do agree that there were also many more involved or at least a few who knew what was happening.....I am curious if this man will be the lone recipient of punishment or even death in this matter. If you think about it this one man seems to have had a huge impact on Chinas economic stability. It would seem there could have been a system of checks and balances to prevent one person from having such control if this is the case.

Jayflash and Ringzero, you'll notice that your posts redirecting the thread toward the highly controversial political topic of Libby's conviction, sentencing, potential for pardoning, etc. are now removed.

The proper area for the topic is the Underground, but not CPF's Cafe.

Guess I'll don my dunce hat & go pout in the corner.

From what I've read the situation here in the US is far worse than China. I
eat Chinese food every Friday afternoon and the resturant owner is from
Singapore. He has described some of the laws over there to me. I think
caneing would be a good deterrent for this sort of thing. He said after 1 blow they collapse from shock and some die on the spot. I don't think anybody would go through it twice. We won't get justice here with the DC
mentality in charge.

MARNAV1 said:

I think caneing would be a good deterrent for this sort of thing. He said after 1 blow they collapse from shock and some die on the spot. I don't think anybody would go through it twice. We won't get justice here with the DC mentality in charge.

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Caning, as it's practiced in Singapore, may be overly severe. Offenses such as spitting on a sidewalk or small time vandalism may result in a caning.

However, I do agree with Robert Heinlein's viewpoint that public flogging can be highly beneficial. For young first offenders a brisk flogging makes more sense than incarceration.

For maximum benefit, floggings would be conducted regularly at set dates and times, in full public view on the town square. The name of the offender, his offense, and his sentence would be read aloud. An expert would then administer the number of lashes ordered by the court.

Immediate intense pain and public humiliation will produce far more of a deterrent effect in youthful offenders than probation or incarceration. Besides being more effective at deterrence, flogging costs a lot less than the alternatives.


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Not sure I agree with the temper of this thread. Maybe some day I will appreciate China's justice when they live by the "rule of law".

Bill

ringzero said:

Caning, as it's practiced in Singapore, may be overly severe. Offenses such as spitting on a sidewalk or small time vandalism may result in a caning.

However, I do agree with Robert Heinlein's viewpoint that public flogging can be highly beneficial. For young first offenders a brisk flogging makes more sense than incarceration.

For maximum benefit, floggings would be conducted regularly at set dates and times, in full public view on the town square. The name of the offender, his offense, and his sentence would be read aloud. An expert would then administer the number of lashes ordered by the court.

Immediate intense pain and public humiliation will produce far more of a deterrent effect in youthful offenders than probation or incarceration. Besides being more effective at deterrence, flogging costs a lot less than the alternatives.

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Such things were done in the past here and are done in many other parts of the world on a regular basis. So is death for relitively minor offenses.
There is no evidence that it is effective.
Jobs and education have always been effective ways to deter crimes.
When the economy gets better crime goes down.

This is ESPECIALLY TRUE among the young since "it can't happen to them." and even if it does they are tough enough to withstand any punishment.

Mike Painter said:

Jobs and education have always been effective ways to deter crimes.

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Especially among elected officials. Crime also goes up when uneducated elected officials make too many stupid laws which criminalize things ordinary citizens are likely to do. Examples include laws against jaywalking, sidewalk cycling, drinking in parks, using fireworks, or in general trying to protect idiots from themselves, or from other idiots.

Maybe we need to pass a law which requires that two old laws be repealed for every new one passed.

Mike Painter said:

Such things were done in the past here and are done in many other parts of the world on a regular basis. So is death for relitively minor offenses.
There is no evidence that it is effective.

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There is lots of evidence that it is effective. Read up on crime rates in Singapore and Saudi Arabia. Better yet, talk to someone who has visited those countries.

Mike Painter said:

Jobs and education have always been effective ways to deter crimes. When the economy gets better crime goes down.

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That is the traditional view of leftists. Actually, there is only a very weak correlation between the health of the economy and crime.

A strong correlation exists between crime and punishment. More severe punishment results in less crime, and less severe punishment results in more crime.

Mike Painter said:

This is ESPECIALLY TRUE among the young since "it can't happen to them." and even if it does they are tough enough to withstand any punishment.

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And that's why it's critical to deter youthful offenders before they commit more serious crimes. Courts that sentence youthful offenders to probation or community service aren't doing them any favors. They'll be back in court soon enough charged with a more serious crime, and almost certainly will end up in an adult prison.


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why are there so many criminals in this world?
why are the jails packed full to overflowing?
why is one person in charge of the lives of so many others?
why are so many babies born incapable of considering the needs and feelings of others?
why do so many of those babies become politicians?

these are not rhetorical questions; there are definite answers to each one,
but the "answers" (though useful in school) just don't seem to matter anymore..

:sigh:

If what I had read is still correct, or even if it's close: Why does the USA have the most people in prisons and jails? Why do we incarcerate the most people per capita? Are we punishing the wrong and the weakest people just for the sake of political posturing?

Could it be that so few "big fish", especially political, are imprisoned is due to voter apathy? Perhaps the "Trickle Down" theory is occurring in that criminals are emulating their government's examples of violence, terror, injustice and theft from the very citizens it's supposed to protect?