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  1. #1

    Default Exploding Batteries

    Howdy,

    I am interested in exploding batteries, and I would be happy to search for threads....

    But, I keep getting an error message, and so the search function is not working for me....

    If you could be so kind as to post some links, etc.....

    Marion

  2. #2
    Flashaholic* FILIPPO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exploding Batteries

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ight=exploding

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ight=exploding

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ight=exploding

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ight=exploding

    ......
    there are too many thread about batts. explosions.
    here you are the link with search: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...archid=2572243
    I don't know if you can read it...

    I recive the same error message if I search :" batteries explosions"
    don't know why

    good reading...LOL

  3. #3
    *Flashaholic* LuxLuthor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exploding Batteries


  4. #4
    Flashaholic* senna94's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exploding Batteries

    All of those threads are excellent and provide many hours of interesting reading. For simplicity sake though I think we should have a simple list of dos and don'ts of battery safety. Someone with far more experience than me should compile this list. Perhaps it already exists and I just haven't found it.


    After reading those threads I am afraid to go near my flashlights!!!!!!!!!!
    "The Constitution says promote the the general welfare not provide welfare." -Allen West-
    To a democrat freedom means freedom from responsibility.

  5. #5
    *Flashaholic* LuxLuthor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exploding Batteries

    Senna, I think that is an excellent suggestion...but it would take someone of 'impeachable' authority and experience such as Buchmann (of Battery University) to do it....but under the kind of scrutiny and expertise that you see on this forum, it would be hard to list all the "do's and don'ts" that would cover all the relevant nuances, and have it stand on its own merits.

    Remember that REPORTED battery explosions are still exceedingly rare. While there was just a post about Milwaukee Tools recalling NiCad packs, I think the biggest concern is over the dangers of Lithium Cobalt Ion (& RC 'LiPo') batteries because of the explosive/fire/thermal runaway potential.

    After all the reading and posting I have done about Lithium cells (which I ONLY started doing in ernest this spring)....I think the biggest danger lies with using UNPROTECTED cells, especially IN SERIES, and ESPECIALLY IF CHARGING IN SERIES & EVEN MORE SO WITH CHARGERS THAT DO NOT TERMINATE CURRENT ONCE CELLS REACH 4.15 TO 4.2 VOLTS.

    Other simple guidelines that are more geared to Lithium cells are:
    • Always use Protected Li-Ion cells. At least follow this until you have spent the time reading about, and have had some experience using Li-Ion cells. If you then use Unprotected cells, make sure you check voltages before and after charging, and follow other sensible precautions commensurate with their lack of protection circuits.
    • Stop using a light when you first notice dimming.
    • Understand the pro's and con's, and workings of your charger.
    • Attend to the charging. Do not succumb to the Ron Popille Rotisserie: "Set It and Forget It" strategy when charging Lithiums....or do it somewhere (fireplace/outside) where nothing gets harmed if you do forget. Tom (SilverFox) has said many times that if he has to go run an errand, he unplugs the chargers and restarts when he gets back.
    • Charge in an area that maximizes safety if something goes wrong. If you do not have a garage or fireplace, at least get some bricks to place batteries on, and have some some kind of ventilation available.
    Many common fire extinguishers will not work with a Lithium metal fire, nor do you want to stand around in a moment of panic trying to figure out what to do, or breathing in the fumes--so have your sand/water/appropriate fire extinguisher sitting nearby.

    My strategy during warmer weather is to charge in the garage on concrete after removing all flammables, and in the event of problem, pull the charger cord from wall and hit the garage opener door as I exit.
    These are just a few things off the top of my head, and compared to the many experts in the field of batteries, some of whom are members here....I am a hapless beginner noob. Once you have spent the time reading, using, and watching your cells, you develop confidence....but like hazards of guns or electricity, assuming Lithium batteries are just like your good old Alkaline cells is not a good way to start out. Once you have spent some time learning about guns or electricity you develop confidence, but also you learn the importance of safety measures that the beginner may not appreciate. Same with Lithiums.

    Fortunately, there are new Lithium Ion technologies that are virtually eliminating these fire/explosion/thermal runaway issues.... AW has already come out with a Saphion type of Lithium Ferrous Phosphate cell, and will likely move to include that new safe technology in other cell sizes we all want.
    Last edited by LuxLuthor; 07-21-2007 at 05:18 PM.

  6. #6
    Thread Killer Illum's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exploding Batteries

    if your a cr123a powered flashlight user...

    INVEST IN A ZTS TESTER!

    it could save your life!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Exploding Batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by LuxLuthor View Post
    Many common fire extinguishers will not work with a Lithium metal fire, nor do you want to stand around in a moment of panic trying to figure out what to do, or breathing in the fumes--so have your sand/water/appropriate fire extinguisher sitting nearby.
    Water is not a good fire management option for lithium batteries. It's simply not effective on lithium fires.

    Further, in the event of batteries igniting while under charge, there's also 110v in the charger to worry about. Don't even think about throwing water on a burning charger unless the charger has been unplugged first.

    Use a bucket of dry sand or, if no 110v power is present, a class D fire extinguisher rated for lithium.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Exploding Batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by LuxLuthor View Post
    My strategy during warmer weather is to charge in the garage on concrete after removing all flammables, and in the event of problem, pull the charger cord from wall and hit the garage opener door as I exit.
    I would like to give a big WARNING NOT TO CHARGE LITHIUM CELLS ON CONCRETE unless there are zero flammable items nearby...

    Concrete "spalls" when exposed to high/concentrated heat... Spalling is when little chunks of concrete are sent flying (as if from a small explosive charge) from the differential heating of the concrete. A small amount of lithium could easily be sent flaming 3-4 feet straight up or sideways (larger amounts--don't I don't know how far--probably lots of variables)...

    Ask how I know? As kids, my Dad would sometimes bring magnesium home for use to "play with". One day I did this on the concrete steps and had a very pretty pyrotechnic display from shooting concrete and flying/burning magnesium.

    -Bill

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    Flashaholic* Braddah_Bill's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exploding Batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by Marion David Poff View Post
    Howdy,

    I am interested in exploding batteries, and I would be happy to search for threads....

    But, I keep getting an error message, and so the search function is not working for me....

    If you could be so kind as to post some links, etc.....

    Marion

    This should keep you busy for awhile:

    G2 explosion by Kumar 762
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=140755

    more on the G2 explosion *PICS*
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=140717


    Cyclops Flashlight Explosion
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=122500

    Primary Lithium battery explodes!
    http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/show...3&page=1&pp=30

    CR123A meltdown in PM6: What happened?
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ad.php?t=91245

    ROAR of the Pelican (CR123 Explosion during use, firsthand account)
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...8&page=1&pp=30

    A Little Accident. W/123\'s and a Peli. M6
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ead.php?t=78843

    Battery exploded in flashlight
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ad.php?t=114455

    Accident w/Amondotech 123s and SF M2 Detonator G&P Tailcap Chop KL3 Head!
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...9&page=1&pp=30


    Flash Amp Testing
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ad.php?t=28692


    Battery explosion with Fenix P1D
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ight=exploding

    My Aleph 1 Exploded and cought on fire.
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=170187


    123 Primary Lithium cell info/testing/links
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ight=exploding


    Safety Concern Re: Lithium Multicurrent Universal Fast Smart Charger.
    http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sho...d.php?t=157673


    Bill

  10. #10

    Default Re: Exploding Batteries

    -deleted-
    Last edited by g36pilot; 07-23-2007 at 08:07 PM. Reason: Double Post

  11. #11

    Default Re: Exploding Batteries

    Here are a few more:

    Li Battery Venting Incidents:

    http://www.batteriesdigest.com/id396.htm 1999 LAX/TSA flashlight “explosion”
    http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=120888&page=1&pp=30 Original Incident Post PM6 w/BS 123s
    http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=141137&page=1&pp=30 CR123 Electrolyte Fume Exposure Incident
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=78843 Another PM6 incident
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=91245 Another documented venting incident with Pelican PM6 flashlight
    http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1460697&postcount=478PM6 w/SF123
    http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1461982&postcount=490 Same as above
    http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1485475&postcount=613 BS battery venting in PM6 during test with 60/100 capacities.
    http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1485564&postcount=614 Photos of vented BS battery in PM6 during test with 60/100 capacities.
    http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1487003&postcount=626 PM6 vents 3 for 3 in testing
    http://flashlightreviews.com/reviews/pelican_m6.htm Pelican PM6 info
    http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1364309&postcount=1 SL Scorpion w/Panasonic 123s Venting
    http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=132932&st=0&p=2223457&#entry22 23457 SF 9P w/unknown CR123s venting w/ injury
    http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:VrZlo5l-ilwJ:glocktalk.com/sitemap/topic/352933-1.html+surefire+flashlight+exploded+lithium&hl=en& gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=25 Maxfire LX w/Chinese 123s
    http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=122500 Cyclops flashlight w/Cyclops batts explode
    http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=122500&page=1&pp=30 Cyclops incident thread
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=121303 Li AA explodes
    http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1535329&postcount=1Amondotech 123’s vent
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=169038 Chinese PW Powerstation CR?123 in PD1 venting
    http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1536209&postcount=38 Mod’d light/AmondoTech CR123s
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=157900 WE 6v w/BS 123’s
    http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/browning.html Browning flashlight recall (2 reports)
    http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/dorcy.html Dorcy recall w/house fire reported
    http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml03/03195.htmlA&T Fuji Power CR123A Recall (5 venting incidents reported)
    http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/fire/reports/face9939.html AED explosion w/injuries
    http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?&threadid=537333 Ledwav Z5 weapon light incident
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=71161 CR123 systems banned from nuclear power plant after fire.
    http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1529062#post1529062Defective Chinese light on Air Canada
    http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/guntalk/config.pl?noframes;read=25245 Aimshot Xenon Illuminator model TX-125 weapon light meltdown
    http://www.xanga.com/Cr0c0/490345068/item.html Japanese blog/venting incident
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=170187 Aleph 1 w/BS CR123’s vent/explode

    Material Safety Data Sheets & Other Chemistry Data:

    HF: HydroFluric Acid
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid HF data
    http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic804.htm HF data
    http://www.bu.edu/es/labsafety/ESMSDSs/MSHydFluoricAcid.html#anchor888417 HF MSDS
    http://www.gpbatteries.com.hk/pic/MSDS_PhotoLithum.pdf GP MSDS
    http://www.septechnologies.biz/battery/products/manufactures/sanyo/spec_sheet/sanyo_lithium_msds.pdf Sanyo Li Battery MSDS Data
    http://www.seabird.com/pdf_documents/msds_sheets/Saft_3.6VLithiumAA.pdf MSDS/PSDS Li-SOCl2
    http://www.gfschemicals.com/Search/MSDS/2534MSDS.PDF Li HexaFl
    http://www.duracell.com/oem/safety/pdf/2003_5C.pdf Duracell MSDS
    http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/globalcitizenship/environment/pdf/msds_lg_liion.pdf LG18650 MSDS
    http://www.batteryspace.com/prod-specs/MSDSLiion.pdfBatteryspace MSDS w/HF warning

    Technical Data:

    http://www.duracell.com/procell/chemistries/lithium.asp# Duracell Batt Construction Pictorial
    http://www.duracell.com/oem/primary/Lithium/safety.asp#underwriters Duracell Safety and Reliability, UL Testing
    http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1389277 CR123 disected
    http://www.duracell.com/Procell/pdf/Li123_US_OS.pdf Duracell 123 Engineering Data Sheet
    http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/123.pdf Energizer 123 Engineering Data Sheet

    Government & Industry Reports:

    http://www.iata.org/NR/ContentConnector/CS2000/SiteInterface/sites/whatwedo/dangerousgoods/file/US_DOT_HM224E_Lithium_Battery_Ban.pdf Federal Register Vol. 69, No. 240 December 15, 2004
    http://www.wrf.com/docs/publications/12574.pdf Li-Ion Batteries In Transport
    http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAPAP2003_04.PDF Dealing w/inflight lithium battery fires
    http://www.mobilit.fgov.be/data/aero/FAALiBaFiRe.pdf DOT Flammability Assessment CR123s
    http://www.ntsb.gov/events/2006/PhiladelphiaPA/Exhibits/350561.pdf NTSB fire tests- Compartment PSI increases
    http://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/systems/Lithium-ion_battery_04112006.pdf
    http://www.unece.org/trans/doc/2000/ac10/ST-SG-AC10-27a2e.pdf UN Dangerous Goods/Li Testing 12/2000
    http://www.unece.org/trans/doc/2005/ac10c3/ST-SG-AC10-C3-2005-43e.docUN Dangerous Goods Li-Ion Discussion 2005
    http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2005/HZB0501.htm KMEM battery vent NTSB 2004
    http://www.atp.nist.gov/eao/wp05-01/chapt4.htm Risk & Financial Analysis Encouraging Off-Shore Li-Ion Production
    http://www.wrf.com/docs/events/1117.pdf Battery Transportation & Waste Regulation
    http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/fact0002.html NIOAH exploding flashlight risk
    http://www.ayovac.com/technical/pdfs/tech_uslithium.pdf Primary Li Batt Limited On Pax Aircraft
    http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-5.htm Li-On, The Ideal Rechargeable? No

    Destructive Testing:

    http://www.utahflyers.org/ LiPo Lithium Polymer battery fire videos, check left hand menu page >videos>LiPo Fires 1,2,&3 This is a different battery chemistry than the CR123 and fires causes by overcharging/intentional mismanagement.
    http://www.a123systems.com/html/tech/safety.html RCR123 Li-Ion Nail Penetration Test Video
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/yuandrew/CPF/1deb7ccd.jpg Microwaved 123
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/yuandrew/CPF/2fa146a8.jpg MMicrowaved 123
    http://www.modelaircraft.org/lithsafety.asp Safety Testing Imperative
    http://www.pcpitstop.com/pcsafety/video.asp Laptop Li-Ion Battery Fire Video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS2hGoJVmlA YouTube Intentional Battery Vent
    Last edited by g36pilot; 07-25-2007 at 04:28 PM. Reason: edited inaccurate post title

  12. #12
    *Flashaholic* LuxLuthor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exploding Batteries

    Holy Moly....g36pilot....that is one heck of a resource post you just made.....thanks in advance of checking all those links. I recognize some of them.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Exploding Batteries

    Thanks LL. I merely collected the work and misadventures of others for reference.

    And once again, thanks to CPFer's Newbie, Silverfox, incident reporters, numerous other members, and battery/flashlight retailers (for test material support) for the education relative to our applications.

  14. #14
    Super Moderator
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    Default Re: Exploding Batteries

    Here's another_one, posted just a few hours ago.
    Resistance is futile...

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Exploding Batteries

    Hi,

    not being a soldier or in law enforcement, I can't imagine why I would spend hours researching this issue.. Why expose myself and my family to a risk that can only be mitigated by hours of research and care when alternative and safer batteries are available? Just a newbie sharing his initial thoughts...

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Exploding Batteries

    I found Pelican's bulletin regarding use of batteries. No surprise, but they don't approve Surefire...hmmm perhaps its the competition? If someone else posted this before, I applogize. I searched CPF for 30 minutes and couldn't find it.

    http://www.pelican.com/support/bulle...eryWarning.pdf

    Highlights from bulletin:

    Lithium batteries can explode, leak or cause
    burns if not handled appropriately. Please
    observe the following rules of thumb:

    Use only Panasonic™, Energizer™, Duracell™, or Sanyo™ cells
    Do not mix with used or other battery types/brands
    Replace all cells at the same time
    Do not open batteries
    Do not dispose of in fire
    Do not heat above 75C (167F)
    Do not expose contents to water
    Do not recharge
    Do not install backwards

    On another note.. I work as an Engineer and was meeting with a salesperson for an industrial wireless monitor that happens to use 2x123A primaries. Of couse I inspected them and saw they used Panisonic cells. When I asked about user battery replacement, they explained that because of potential vibration at some installations they solder the batteries in place so they don't have any intermmittent contact probelms. I expressed my concern about soldering and potentially blocking vent holes because Lithium batteries can somtimes explode and that loose batteries are actually banned from commercial flights.

    Of course I got some questions from the salesperson and my boss as to why I knew so much about batteries, I just explained it was for some "hobby" interrest that I have. I couldn't come out of the closet that I'm a flashaholic.

    One week later, I met with a more technical person from the same company, and he mentioned that it had gotten back to him about me knowing a lot about lithium batteries and raised some safety concerns.


    I guess all my time spent at work at CPF wasn't a complete waste!
    6PD with DX Cree drop in *Awesome*, L2D Q5, TK11, PT APEX (My first mod with SSC P4-Thanks CPF!). EDC - FENIX LOD CE & P2 Q5.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Exploding Batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by heckubus View Post
    Hi,

    not being a soldier or in law enforcement, I can't imagine why I would spend hours researching this issue.. Why expose myself and my family to a risk that can only be mitigated by hours of research and care when alternative and safer batteries are available? Just a newbie sharing his initial thoughts...
    For a long time, the best and brightest small flashlights were only available with CR123. With LEDs, this is not as critical, but CR123s are a major part of the cutting-edge flashlight industry now, and many people have quite a lot of CR123 powered gear. The battery failures are a relatively new development, partly due to the proliferation of CR123 gear driving a market for inexpensive batteries.

    I use them in my car kits and earthquake kits due to the very long shelf life, and the lower likelihood of battery leakage destroying the equipment. Years ago, when Maglites were among the best you could get, alkaline cells were the standard, and I had many pieces of emergency gear damaged due to battery leakage, plus the shelf life wasn't good enough for long term storage. Lithium cells just weren't very available back then. Some of my current 'quake and car kits have CR123 batteries that have been in there for 5+ years, and they're still working and in good shape on the annual checkups.

    YMMV, as always, but CR123 batteries solved quite a few problems for me in disaster preparedness - compact, powerful lights that I can count on working if I need them, even after years of storage. I just have to buy good quality batteries (and replace my old incandescents with LEDs, now)...

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