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Thread: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

  1. #31
    Thread Killer Illum's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darell View Post
    This one is too close to call for me. We'll have to see it around the neck of a beautiful model before I can offer any relevant comments.

    Standing by....
    a studio shot with models for a prototype?
    some reason AluminumOvercast rings in my mind

  2. #32
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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    Quote Originally Posted by mobile1 View Post
    Time to show our (Lumencraft's) next creation (so far only a prototype and concept).

    Kyle and I looked at the Titan and we just thought we can do better than that... so as a result the EOS was born

    Your thoughts?

    1. was recently looking at the Titan on the SF website and was going to contact SF about availability.

    2. i'll buy yours in a heartbeat. exactly what i'm looking for. the price makes it somewhat of a no-brainer (cp. to SF Titan even if performance was only as good as the Titan's vs. apparently superior).

    3. when can i "take a number"? or,... where does the line start?

    4. you might??? have tradename infringement with the Princeton Tec Eos headlamps which has been sold for a few years here in the States (still a lighting product and so is a bit different than "Cadillac" automobiles and "Cadillac" dogfood; EOS cameras should be a non-issue even though they might have a built-in flash).

    5. NO sapphires on mine, please.
    Last edited by half-watt; 09-03-2007 at 08:10 AM.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    Looks like another cool light! If I may, I'd like to make a couple of comments. One of the things I love about the Gatlight is the cool glow from the leaked light on the sides of the optics. The gems are unique, but I'd prefer something closer to the Gatlight without the bulk.

    Also, for a small light, I think the large knob on the bottom uses extra space and makes it a little more difficult to turn with your second hand (you need to reach behind the light) and certainly impossible to turn with one hand (unless you use a tactical hold). I know you don't want to make it too much like the Titan, but a ring near the front of the light would easier to use.

    Phredd

  4. #34
    *Flashaholic* easilyled's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    Perhaps you can offer 2 variants - one with sapphires and one with
    trits in recessed slots around the head instead?

    Personally I would prefer trits.

    I'm also not completely taken with the "long-line" indents on the body
    for grip. If there was another way to do this in the form of a band (or bands)
    around the body, I would prefer that from an aesthetic point of view.

    All in all, its a great concept though, and I'm pretty sure I'd take
    this instead of a Titan. Especially since its only slightly longer and takes
    a CR123-sized cell.
    Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine

  5. #35
    *Flashaholic* greenLED's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    I don't like the lateral holes - it's a waste of light even if it looks cool.
    Actually, I don't understand why the "bling-bling" of wanting to add stones onto a light.
    The tail switch doesn't match the design lines of the rest of the light.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    Ok sorry been a bit busy to respond.... so here we go.

    Regarding the stones: Well we'll have 2 versions - one with / one without.. question is AL or TI for the non stone version... price difference is probably around $200 for the AL and $300+ for the TI.

    Regarding being affraid or use it too hard... : Well this light is actually very very small... so the zoom pictures make it look larger...also they are recessed where you can't really damage them.

    LedLenser: Well it's a difference whether you just drill some holes into the side with no real reflector or optics in the light... just flood, or whether you combine optics with a fairly challenging way of setting the sapphires (windows) so that they are back lighted and make it all watertight. If they patented their holes - I am pretty certain that we don't violate their patent since we don't have holes but sapphires there....it's quite a bit different... whatever it is if we get the patent than we're fine. If we don't we'll know.
    Also the size, number of holes, look etc. are all very different.

    Practical Use: Well if you're changing a tire at night... having the sapphire is a safety feature where traffic can see you much better. Unless you're in a tactical situation having the sapphires there is an advantage and important feature. Besides you don't lose any light - since we're using optics. Which brings us to the next topic

    Reflector vs optics: Well I still need to see a reflector with better throw than the optics has we're using - than we would use a reflector for the non bling version. Yes you might get less Lumen with optics but perceived brightness (hotspot brightness) is Lux not Lumen. So show me a same diameter size reflector with better throw. I got quite a few examples of that optic outthrowing other reflectors and optic.

    Sasha/Naming: Location of the thread.. Sorry my fault... it was pretty late when I started that thread (at least in my terms with a newborn 9pm is very late)... thanks for moving it. Yeah the name is a bit of a challenge.. this EOS goddess is pretty popular with products and trademarks... there is also a headlight called EOS... if we call it the Lumencraft EOS - so with company name it is fine...


    Brightness adjustment not in the back: Well there are a couple issues with that. First I think it is the easiest one hand use interface. Every time you have a push button in the back you need to do a tactical hold anyway if you want it to turn on. Now with the EOS if we move the brightness adjustment to the front it would be the same interface as the Titan (if you use the rotation to turn the light off). But I find that most people use the clicky in the back for on and off rather than the knob, in which case the design makes more sense.

    Generally it is possible to move the brightness adjustment, however the light would have to be longer, or a bit thicker which we rather want to avoid. Building a light that pretty much is the same size as the titan but add a full clicky, and use a 123 instead of a CR2 trust me there is not much material left anywhere to move anything around - every bit of space is used. After having used the GatLight now for a couple of months, I think most people leave the brightness adjusted to whatever the main use is (night stand light at very low level, outdoor light high level)... than they just use the clicky in the back for on and off.


    Long lines along the body:
    Well generally anything is possible - lines, swirls, hex patterns, helix etc. However we'd like to keep it very classy... make a suggestion and we can try to model it up in CAD. One more thing whatever we do there it can't be very deep... just the same. Another option would be add a pattern and fill it with silver... my TI wedding ring has that... and it looks kind of cool contrast silver/Titanium.

    Holes a waste of light: well it has to do with my reflector/optics comment above. I don't think there is a better reflector/optics out there with more throw with a p4 than what we currently use. So based on that, the light coming out through the holes is not wasted. If there are no holes the light will stay inside of the cylinder and be wasted there - optics are 85% efficient, and we basically use the remaining 15% to illuminate the sapphires. A good perfect reflector (and most do not fall in this category) is 95% however they are inferior in focusing light if you go for throw (if you compare with a same size model). You get more lumen but less lux - and lux is what people perceive as how bright a flashlight is.

    EOS and models: Ok let's see if I can convince a model.....so standby..
    Last edited by mobile1; 09-03-2007 at 03:40 PM.

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    *Flashaholic* easilyled's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    I'm very pleased to hear that you're making 2 versions (with/without stones)
    Its also great that you're offering 2 materials Al. & Ti.

    What I don't understand is why one of these materials will have stones
    and the other won't

    Why don't you have some of the Al. with stones and some without and
    ditto for Ti?

    Judging by the feedback that I've seen, there are a lot of us that would
    like Ti (me included), but out of those opinion is divided on having sapphires
    or no sapphires (maybe trits instead)

    I realise this means that there will be 4 different options but you could draw
    up a sales-list with the option desired next to the user (or maybe a pre-sales
    list initially to get a feel for the numbers)
    Last edited by easilyled; 09-03-2007 at 03:34 PM.
    Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine

  8. #38
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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    well we will do a TI with sapphire... and either a TI without or an AL without, depending on what most people want... or if there is A LOT of interest we can do 3 version... anyway some more EOS photos as requested....







    Last edited by mobile1; 09-03-2007 at 06:56 PM.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    I hate to be the lone voice expressing a negative opinion, but it looks butt-heavy to me (the flashlight, not the model) in the second picture of post #1. The body flare in the front and rear seem to be about the same length, but the switch in back adds additional length of the wider diameter in the rear which, IMO detracts from the good looks. Finer knurling on the button would help some. Increasing the length of the flair in the front would help, but probably make it a bigger/heavier light (not as pocketable.)
    "For a moment, Waterhouse thinks that one wall of the building has collapsed,
    exposing them to the direct light of the sun. But Ghnxh has simply turned on the galvanick lucipher ..."

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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    Very nice direction and light. Couple of open and honest questions:

    1) what are you doing for heat sinking especially when offering a light that can do a claimed 140lumens? I know it is way more than surefire but a light this small is going to get mighty hot mighty quickly at 140 lumens

    2) can knurling be added in the mid section or maybe around the head to help with the grip for adjusting the infinate brightness?

    3) Will the light be regulated on all levels? Will it automatically step itself down during the run of the battery?

    4) What is the expected usability on high (full bore) before it drops down?

    5) will rechargeables be an option?

    6) will it be upgradeable? I think this is a key part that SF missed but I understand they want continued big dollar sales for when new lights come out and don't want to have to "upgrade" the old lights.

    7) what is momentary set to? Automatic full high or something settable?

    8) I am assuming last use is what you get when you turn the light off and back on right?

    9) What is the expected availability. Surefire keeps pushing theres back (now supposedly late Sept). What say you on the EOS?

    10) Whoever's wife or girlfriend that is in the "model" pictures......... great job. Very classy indeed. Someone is a lucky man.

    Thanks and sorry for the questions. I would be in for one in HA black and with trits instead of jewels. I think the jewels are too chickish.

    Curtis
    Last edited by cue003; 09-03-2007 at 05:18 PM.
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  11. #41
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    Naughty Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    Galvanic...: I agree with you somewhat - when the light is held horizontally , if it's vertical I think it looks ok. The problem with making it more balanced is that it means adding weight and length, or removing the clicky. Regarding the knurl, its a question between look and function. The rough knurl is awesome to hold (same as with the gat) and operate.. the v2 had a thinner knurl and it's more slippery...


    cue0003:
    1) Heatsinking: well we're the only ones (I am aware off) that is using fairly thick solid COPPER CORE LED circuit boards. However the light is pretty tiny and it heats up quite a bit in the front - can still be held safely in the back though. Right now max is set to 1000mA (when used with rcr123) which is a bit high for continuous on.. however as with the Gat since it's using a very very smooth brightness control one can turn it down.
    We will do the same as with the Gat and officially specify it for use with a primary lithium battery, as with those the max mA is 600mA - which is perfectly fine from a thermal point of view. For those who want a bit of extra ooomph... they can use a 3.6V and get the 1000mA - but they have to turn it down when it gets too warm.

    2) Grip: with the stripes the grip is actually fairly good... and brightness adjustment is easy with one hand.

    3) Regulation: Yes same as the GatLight - regulated on all levels - so buck boost chip - battery is being drained to 1.5V. When set to max it will regulate max brightness as long as possible after that it will pull whatever the battery can deliver (decreasing)... than it will go into a strobe mode (when it's being left to max) for a little while followed by an hour of low still usable ligth.

    4) Runtimes: With a (primary lithium 123)battery you'll get about 1h runtime at 600mA light. And about 10 days at the lowest level.

    5) Rechargeables: Officially its for use with primaries. However you can use protected 3.6V rechargeables. WE don't specify it for those since it's too hard to explain to your regular user what a protected cell is. There are many MFG's out there that sell protected batteries that in fact are not. So for liability reasons we spec it for use with 123's. Also when you pop in a 3.6V the max. level is 1000mA which gives you some extra brightness at max but also a lot less runtime. One thing though batteries get drained to 1.5V also rechargeables... so you can't deplete them or the rechargeables will have a very short life.

    6) Upgradablity: YES - like the GatLight it is upgradable with newer Luxeon III type or Seoul P4 type LEDs provided they use the same optical characteristics which they tend to.

    7) Momentary Brightness: Set to whatever level the brightness knob is set to.

    8) Brightness when light is turned on: Like with the GatLight the last setting when light is turned off - unless the knob got adjusted while the light was off.

    9) Availability - well we're currently getting quotes in so it's hard to tell.. but the earliest would be before Christmas hopefully (delivery) - however for a lower number f.e. 50 units we might be faster...

    10) Model - Yep she's a hottie and smart too
    Last edited by mobile1; 09-03-2007 at 06:37 PM.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    Gotta love new custom modders presentations, in the ol times we used to see a flashlight next to a flower and called that beautiful, now we see models... I like the new times far better

    Regarding the design, it reminds me a blend of: the Orb Flashlight+Coast Lenser+Bling+Gatlight
    Hopefully you don't get angry at me, but I dont like it. Knowing your previous work, and knowing this one is just an iteration in the design process, Im sure I'll like much better the new releases


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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    Walter:
    I'm in for TI but still can not decide with the stone or without. Show us more pictures of the one without stone.

  14. #44

    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    I gotta say the sapphires are a little too bling for my tastes. McGizmo did a light with a single ruby and for some reason I liked that better.

    With or without the sapphires I don't see this light as aiming for the same niche as the Titan. Also, if you're aiming for the market I think you are, IMO you should make the light rechargeable using a cellular phone charger. That type of user is going to be happier with a light where they never have to change the battery except as a very occasional maintenance operation, like with a cell phone. It is ok if waterproofness is compromised by the recharging connector.

    Rechargeability also means you can use a smaller cell inside, like a 14250 or whatever.
    Last edited by paulr; 09-03-2007 at 11:15 PM.

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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    Hey Walter what about the clip have you decided yet? Will it be clipless I'm hoping for a clip or some sort of lanyard attachment

  16. #46
    Flashaholic* mobile1's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    We're looking into different alternatives.... ideally would be something removable... but it depends.... we'll play around a bit in the CAD and see what we can come up with

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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    That would be great i'm planning on getting 2 of these 1 for my GF and another for me. Of course 1 bling and one without. I'm sure this will make it before the Titan does good luck please keep us updated.

    Quote Originally Posted by mobile1 View Post
    We're looking into different alternatives.... ideally would be something removable... but it depends.... we'll play around a bit in the CAD and see what we can come up with

  18. #48
    Thread Killer Illum's Avatar
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    Ohgeez Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    Quote Originally Posted by greenLED View Post
    I don't like the lateral holes - it's a waste of light even if it looks cool.
    Actually, I don't understand why the "bling-bling" of wanting to add stones onto a light.
    The tail switch doesn't match the design lines of the rest of the light.
    well that did it
    how will the tailswitch blend in? making it with smaller than that of the body?

  19. #49
    *Flashaholic* greenLED's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Illum_the_nation View Post
    well that did it
    how will the tailswitch blend in? making it with smaller than that of the body?
    Size is not what I'm concerned about. What I'm seeing is a sleek, curvy body (the light, not the model, you sick-minded ones!) with a switch knob that could easily be found on a drill press!

    Make the knurling less aggressive, smooth out the lines, make it "softer" and more elegant looking to match the body?

  20. #50
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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    Quote Originally Posted by greenLED View Post
    I don't like the lateral holes - it's a waste of light even if it looks cool.
    Unless, say, one was into biking , in which case, say, the lateral holes are perfect for side visibility! Provided, of course, that it could be done with a strobe mode.

    john

  21. #51
    Flashaholic* Stillphoto's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    I remember the original gatlight thread, and how much the light changed from the cad designs presented....That in itself (the fact that we're already looking at an actual working unit, not just a drawing) is a testament to the improvement in flow / design that Walter and his crew have gone through. As this thread continues, I'm sure there will be plenty of things worked out here and there.

    I do like the idea of having the high dollar blinged out EOS, and then the haIII aluminum "tactical" EOS although it was not designed to be a tactical light. It would make for an amazingly nice pair side by side, ti and bling, black alu and trit or even glow epoxy. I like that it is light that will be lost anyways, so might as well throw some stones in there to do something cool.

    Bravo on a design that will eventually beat SF at their own game, and use a 123a in the process!


    Cheers!
    Last edited by Stillphoto; 09-07-2007 at 05:35 PM. Reason: addition
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  22. #52
    Flashaholic* mobile1's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    Ok we've got some quotes in and so far we got an AL that's in the ball park range... so where can we buy tritium without having to import them ourselves and going through tons of paperwork... also regarding knurling etc... for a black HA I think that knurling is actually pretty nice - the light is very very easy to operate with that knurl.....
    Last edited by mobile1; 09-08-2007 at 10:23 AM.

  23. #53
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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    Might want to talk with admin B@rt, he seems to have good trit connections.
    Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.

  24. #54
    *Flashaholic* easilyled's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine

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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    I vote yes for the tritium as long as it does not reflect on the final price, besides you can just have the slots milled and have the end user make the decision to add tritium or not. There are plenty of sources for tritium here.

  26. #56
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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    Quote Originally Posted by greenstuffs View Post
    I vote yes for the tritium as long as it does not reflect on the final price, besides you can just have the slots milled and have the end user make the decision to add tritium or not. There are plenty of sources for tritium here.
    I think the tritiums would already be inserted as an alternative to the sapphires
    Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine

  27. #57
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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    A magnificent piece of work on the concept - I also really like the effect of the sapphires.

    Very nice and soooo different.

  28. #58
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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    Would the Tritium fill the entire length of the grooves? If so I may just have to pick one up when they are available.

  29. #59
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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    Thanks for the tritium links... that's very helpful. We'll see what we can do... anybody know the 23x3mm vials... that seems a pretty large surface... how easily can those break if something sharp would it the surface of such a vial (if being recessed in a grove)?

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    Default Re: The EOS (Concept & Photos of a Prototype) - Titan Slayer?

    The 3x23 vials are pretty big, so I'd think they'd be more susceptible to breakage. Recess it and cement the vials in with epoxy and they'll be protected from minor impacts. The 3x23 are nice and bright, but the 1.5x5 might be easier to protect.

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