Milky L1 Information Thread Part 2

milkyspit

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Sep 21, 2002
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[size=+1]This is Part 2 of the Milky L1 Information Thread. Part 1 is over here.[/size]



[size=+1]Introduction[/size]

img-ml1-milky-babies.jpg


MARNAV1 said:
What's a Milky L1?

I've loved the old-style SureFire L1 for a long while now... love the overall design, the ergonomics, the compactness, the elegance of this package... not so crazy about the floodsy, not-so-bright purple-tinted beam though. :(

Solution: the Milky L1! :party:

The Milky L1 started as my own attempt to improve on the original L1... then after literally YEARS of studying, and poking around, and tinkering... and tinkering... finally a few of the quirks to this platform started to sink into my overly dense cranium, and I started to get the hang of turning the little guy into IMHO a truly compelling light.

At first this was almost like a secret build I did... had only made a handful, and those went to various folks... Kevin at Battery Station... Steve at The Product Wizard... MSaxatilus... a few others (plus me of course)... in many ways this has long been my premier build in that there's a certain level of performance I've tried hard to maintain, to the extent that sometimes I wouldn't even build any because the emitters on hand weren't good enough! (All get hand-picked as outperformers in order to make it into an ML1.)

But what IS a Milky L1? Don't think I've ever actually posted on that! Oops. :ohgeez:

This thread will hopefully shed some light on what this mod is all about, along with some photos, beamshots, runtime charts, and commentary offered by others too numerous to mention... but thank you to everyone for the info! :eek:

It's an upgraded (but brand new in box) old-style L1 with vastly improved performance...


[size=+2]Collected Milky L1 Info, With Updates (7/4/2007)[/size]

In this post I gather some tidbits from previous posts and update them to correct mistakes, add missing emitter choices, etc. Thought it might help to have it all in one place.


[size=+1]The Milky L1 Colorometer! (including Seoul and Cree) [/size]:D

(Italics mean I don't have that emitter on hand at the time of this writing... the info remains here for reference.)

Cree P4-WH (warmest: beige-white) - roughly 84 lumens
LuxIII UWOJ ("French vanilla" white) - roughly 50-60 lumens
LuxIII TWOH - roughly 45-60 lumens
Lux1W SWOH (rich white, hotwire friendly) - roughly 50-60 lumens
Seoul P4-USVOI - roughly 91-100 lumens
Seoul P4-USWOH - roughly 91-100 lumens
LuxIII UXOJ - roughly 50-60 lumens
Cree P3-WC (close to the Lumileds XO tint) - roughly 77 lumens
LuxIII UWAJ (pure white) - roughly 50-60 lumens
Seoul P4-U-6500K - roughly 91-100 lumens
LuxIII UYOJ - roughly 50-60 lumens
LuxIII TYAH (coolest: frosty white) - roughly 45-60 lumens


[size=+1]Milky L1 Selection Guide (second draft)[/size]

I can customize an L1 to your needs in a number of ways, but it really boils down to this...

1. Want longest possible throw from the L1 platform? Start with the new-style L1 with an IMS20 smooth reflector and flat ultra-clear lens installed.

1a. Want long throw with a ram-of-light effect? Start with the new-style L1 with the TIR optic left in place.

2. Want good throw in a smaller, more elegant version of the L1? Start with the old-style L1.

3. Tell me what sort of beam would be most useful to you: (a) short range mostly flood beam; (b) well-balanced all-purpose beam, useful for both close-range and moderately long distance use; (c) all-purpose beam with a little more intensity in the hotspot for a little extra throw. If you chose 'a', you want the ML1 Floodmaster Edition, featuring heavy stipple reflector. If you chose 'b', you want the ML1 Standard. If you chose 'c', you want the ML1 Smoothie. These choices don't apply if you're keeping the new-style TIR optic.

4. Do you have need for an unusually dim low beam? (Astronomer, photo darkroom, unusually good night vision, covert operations, etc.) If so, please request the ultralow tailcap mod.

5. If we aimed for a pure white tint but missed, would you rather miss with a beam that's a little warm (creamy) or a little cool (frosty)?

6. Is getting your tint preference so important that you're willing to sacrifice 15% of your runtime to get what you want?

7. Is a pure white tint so important that you're willing to lose 35% of the light's brightness to achieve it?

8. Is having a beam free of even minor artifacts so important that you're willing to sacrifice 15% of the beam's range to achieve it?[/QUOTE]


[size=+1]Keeping The New-Style TIR Optic[/size]

Some people have asked about the difference between the L1/KL1 with TIR optic, stock vs. SEOULmated. Here's a quick drawing that shows both the difference and my lack of skills in the visual arts!

img-ml1-soma-tir-comparison.jpg



[size=+1]Runtime Curve[/size]

Should be about the same as this, just brighter...

img-ml1-leef-runtime-linear-small.gif
[/QUOTE]


[size=+2]How To Contact Milkyspit![/size]

In general, a PM on CPF is a good way to reach me, though there are occasions when this won't work... perhaps PM Inbox is full, perhaps CPF is having a hiccup...

If you can't get a PM sent on CPF, you might want to send one to me on CPF Marketplace. I monitor both.

Or you could send me an email... I suggest you put the word 'CPF' somewhere in the subject line to make it easier for me to separate your email from all the spam...

img-email-milky-quarryrun-com.gif


Regarding phone calls: I don't provide my phone number publicly but if you're unable to reach me by the above means, you might want to get my phone number from a fellow CPFer, there are several who know how to reach me. Or have them call me, give them a way I can get back to you (phone number and/or email address), and I'll get in touch as soon as I can. Sometimes a call is the best approach, though in many cases I would encourage you to try PM and/or email first.

If all else fails, post in this thread that you're trying to reach me. No need for details posted here, but at least I'll know I need to reach out to you!

Note: I do use Skype, which is potentially a useful way of doing a text chat... and I can call from Skype on my computer to a phone number pretty much anywhere in the world, so providing me with YOUR phone number would enable me to call YOU. Again, the above means of contact are probably preferable, but if it comes to it, this might be yet another way!

Hope this helps a bit.


[size=+2]Historical Info[/size]

Here are some quotes I grabbed quickly from Knight Lights' "Interested In Mods?" thread...

In no particular order...

Knight Lights said:
Milky L1. What the L1 should have been! A two stage L1 built with an improved emitter, a reflector, and higher output. High in the 60 lumen range.

Knight Lights said:
Milky L1 (a.k.a. ML1)

Front profile view.
img-cpf-ml1-head-up-left-fwd.jpg


Tail profile view.
img-cpf-ml1-head-up-left-back.jpg


Size comparison vs. some other SureFire LED lights. Milky L1 is on the left... the middle light is comparable in size to the current-generation stock L1... light on the right is the L2. Note how much smaller the ML1 is relative to the others... IMHO it's just right, a good fit for most hands while still being surprisingly light in weight and compact.
img-cpf-ml1-lineup-sf.jpg


Side view with the Milky L1 activated.
img-cpf-ml1-head-left-fwd-on.jpg


Posterized beamshot to show uniformity of the beam, with no artifacts, donut holes, or dark spots. Color is uniform from hotspot to edge, too. Overall output slightly exceeds the current-gen stock L1, sidespill is far greater, and throw is darned close! Draws less current than current-gen stock L1, too.
smile.gif

img-cpf-ml1-beam-grey-posterized.jpg

Knight Lights said:
Price List:
Milky L1 Complete Light $175-Includes Surefire old style packaging, Surefire cell, paracord lanyard, and all the appropriate Surefire paperwork.

Milky L1, modify your light $85 (includes premium emitter, tint of your preference if available.)

The Milky L1 outperforms the stock New L1, Old style L1, and most other lights it's size in output at ~60 lumens (dependant on your selection of emitter, desired run time, etc.) You get a premium reflectored light, with a beautiful smooth beam. These have been a Milkyspit special, and everyone that has seen them, or used them, loves them. It is smaller than the New L1 but has more output and a much better beam pattern due to the reflector. So far as I am aware, no one that has one has ever sold theirs. Milkyspit hand selects these emitters, and only the best and brightest make the cut!

These are truly handbuilt, handpicked lights. (You can beat the Luxeon Lottery, if you use Milkyspit to do it!!)

This is one of Milkyspit's favorites and his trademark light!!

(Actually, a couple people have sold theirs to raise funds, but nobody has yet returned one or sold because they were disappointed, as far as I am aware!)

jdriller said:
Got the Milky L1 on Friday. Haven't put it down since. It really doesn't work as well as they say - in the noon sun :wtf: :lolsign:. This really is a keeper. I got the UWOJ version. It is a little on the brown side at the low level, as expected. But on high, this thing is nice and bright. Hard to believe there is only one cell in it.

Milky does nice work. No dust or smudges. Clean and spotless. This is what I expect, and this is what I got. I do not believe anyone would be upset with this light. Form and function are top notch, but it is a little pricey.

It is worth it. Nice job, Milky.

flashlight said:
I got my modded Milky L1 head today & it's a scorcher! Works great both on the L1 as well as on my Maxlite on direct drive with a Li-On 14500 cell (it does get a bit hot as expected so I might get a McR18 later to drop in in place of the plastic IMS17 reflector).
redface.gif

(The McR18 reflector is now standard.)

slaps said:
Received my first perfect light. My Milky L1. It is compact, bright, and has two perfectly chosen drive levels. Did I mention that its build quality is superb? This is truly the way SF should make the L1. If you have the money buy one now. It is worth every penny to a true flashaholic. Great workmanship, outstanding customer service, and fast shipping. Thank you Milky!!!

(Aw shucks. [rosy red cheeks])
redface.gif


NotRegulated said:
In an unscientific evaluation this is what my eyes tell me...the ML1 on the highest level (with a Lux III UXOJ emitter) is brighter than my Amilite Neo, and brighter than my Fenix P1 which are both Lux III's as well. The ML1 is marginally brighter than the Surefire KL3 head and too close to call with the Surefire KL1 head.

In my first few hours of using the ML1, it appears more handy than my E2e and E2e with KL1, because it is the same size or slightly smaller with a low setting and the same level of brightness on high as he competition. My E2e with KL1 or L4 with the McE2s two-stage tailcap is considerably longer in length. The KL1 on the E1e with the McE2s is quite a bit smaller but not as easily activated. The McE2s on the E2e and E1e does allow the light to tail stand while the ML1 does not.
The ML1 is like having a smaller E2e/KL1 in a smaller package with the addition of a low mode. Or it is like having a two-stage E2e if you ignore the incandescent vs LED benefit arguement, or a smaller A2. My initial thoughts are that the ML1 is more handy for day to day tasks than an E2e, of which I have had lots of experience with.
I can't compare it to a recent production L1 but would love to see that comparison.

EuroBeetle said:
Got my Milky L1 today and it IS what an L1 should have been!

cd-card-biz said:
I did some visual, unscientific tests with my Milky ML1 tonight. Out of all my lights, the Milky ML1 (UX0J) is closest in brightness, beam and tint to my McLux Ti-PD (UX0J). I was amazed at how close they appear! While the Ti-PD is a slightly warmer tint the ML1 is a precise stark white. The beams on low and high are so close in brightness, I would be hard-pressed to find the difference. To my eyes, the ML1 has the same size hotspot, but with considerably more spill.

The Ti-PD is a little easier to operate one handed. To operate the ML1 one-handed, I have to point the head downward at my wrist. There may be a better way that I haven't found yet.

The ML1 is rugged to the max and fits my perception of a real work light. The ML1 is not inexpensive. However it is not expensive enough that I would go into clinical depression if it were lost or stolen - a point that keeps me from taking the Ti-PD in the field at all.

While there is no substitute for the ruggedness, beauty and engineering of the Ti-PD, the functionally the Milky enhanced ML1 is very, very close. As NotRegulated mentioned, my only regret is that I don't have a recent stock L1 to compare it to. For me the Milky ML1 is a total keeper which I would recommend to anyone.

cd-card-biz said:
Beamshot Comparison: McLux PD & Milky "ML1"

I posted some time ago that to my eye, the Milky ML1 is a close comparison to my McLux PD. My purpose in doing so was not to say one is better than the other or come to any conclusion - to me, they both just look darn close!

I had a forum member ask about throw. So, I thought I would just try some beamshots and let the viewer decide. Obviously, the spill on the ML1 is much larger, but to me the hotspots and throw are very close. Anyway, I hope this is at least informational.

Bill

2_lights.jpg

Indoor (Below)
wall_shot_low.jpg


wall_shot.jpg

Outdoor (Below)
outdoor_17_feet.jpg

Lurveleven said:
My Milky L1 SV1H arrived on Monday. I got the shipping notice Thursday 10 pm, light arrived Monday morning 11 am, that is fast international shipping!! And there were not many business days in there.

I haven't had the opportunity to properly test the light outside yet, but the impressions so far is that for indoor use it is much much nicer than the stock L1 since you do not need to use a diffuser on it and it has great spill. For indoor use I also prefer using it instead of my McLuxIII-PD, the switch is nicer to use and the beam profile from the McR18 is in IMO better for indoor use than the McR20 (but the McR16 is probably the best). When it comes to brightness, it looks equal in brightness to my PD with UX1K when doing a ceiling bounce test. The low mode is quite a bit lower than on the PD, so for reading it is better for night adapted eyes, but for other uses it may not be so useful. I doubt the low is useful for outdoor use, but I haven't tested that yet. I may make a mini review when I have had more time to test it.

So far the impression of it is very good and I like it a lot.

Sigbjoern

milkyspit said:
Next... Leef kindly did some runtime testing with his Milky L1, and the results were, uh, pretty much what was expected. At least I know I haven't been guilty of false advertising!
wink.gif


Thank you Leef!!
thumbsup.gif


Some general commentary... Leef's lightbox seems to measure roughly 10 of his "LBU" for 1 lumen. The TWOH is not the absolute brightest emitter that could be installed in a ML1, but still it's a good performer, actually topping-out at roughly 62 lumens and spending most of its runtime in the 55-57 lumen range. Runtime defined as the time to 50% initial brightness appears to be roughly 120 minutes, with the first 90 minutes or so in very flat regulation... this is actually a better curve than I would have expected, and seems to validate the platform. Also worth noting: once the light begins to dim, it does so GRADUALLY, so one has plenty of time to change the battery, get back to camp, find some shelter for the night, or whatever. Even after 3 full hours of continuous runtime, the Milky L1 is still generating something around 7 lumens... not bad at all! And all this from a single 123 cell.
redface.gif


Milky L1 LuxIII TWOH runtime, linear scale (what the meter sees)...
img-ml1-leef-runtime-linear.jpg


Milky L1 LuxIII TWOH runtime, log scale (closer to what the human eye sees)...
img-ml1-leef-runtime-log.jpg
 
Last edited:

BSBG

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May 6, 2007
Messages
994
Location
USA
Re: Milky L1 Information Thread part 2

Let me be the first to post in the second thread...

Patiently waiting for my old style M1 Smoothie :whistle:
 

scottaw

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Messages
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State College, PA
Re: Milky L1 Information Thread part 2

Well, i couldn't resist the temptation anymore, you guys make these lights just seem TOO good, so milky...you have a PM waiting whenever you get around to it.
 

Nebula

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Sep 9, 2006
Messages
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Northern Virginia
Re: Milky L1 Information Thread part 2

Well, i couldn't resist the temptation anymore, you guys make these lights just seem TOO good, so milky...you have a PM waiting whenever you get around to it.


Good call, Scottaw. The ML1 is a terrific little light. KK
 

milkyspit

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Messages
4,909
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Re: Milky L1 Information Thread part 2

Hey Scott,

What are the emitters driven at on high/low?


Nam, the exact output depends on the pairing of emitter with circuitry... but in general, I'd say high beam drives the emitter at somewhere in the 350-450mA range, while low beam drives around 10-20mA. The low beam will taper off ever-so-gradually as the light runs, so in practice runtime will end up at 100+ hours.
 

Cat.HK

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Messages
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Location
Hongkong, China
Re: Milky L1 Information Thread part 2

Hi Scott,

Could you tell me the roughly lumens for 350-450mA and 10-20mA ?
Also, is there any different modding from a Gen 5 or Gen 6 L1 ? :thinking:
 

milkyspit

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Messages
4,909
Location
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Re: Milky L1 Information Thread part 2

Hi Scott,

Could you tell me the roughly lumens for 350-450mA and 10-20mA ?
Also, is there any different modding from a Gen 5 or Gen 6 L1 ? :thinking:


Cat, 350mA-450mA will get you something in the 91-120 lumens vicinity... I generally specify the ML1 builds as 100 lumens just to stay a little more on the conservative side of things. As for 10-20mA, that's a little harder to quantify... but my guess would be you're looking at something in the 5-10 lumens range.

The gen5 and gen6 heads aren't much different in appearance... actually, the gen6 head is a little LONGER than the gen5 head... inside, though, they're significantly different. The gen5 has a pocket for the emitter that fits a Luxeon or Seoul SSCP4 nicely... the gen6 has an emitter board designed for mounting a Cree. Either emitter can be installed in either light, but going with the 'other' emitter in a head not made for it entails a more involved modification.
 

Cat.HK

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Re: Milky L1 Information Thread part 2

Thx for your information, Scott. What is your suggestion for a longer runtime on both high and low beam with SF primary (100 lumens on Hi and 10 lumens on Low are enough for me) :D
 

DDS

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Messages
284
Re: Milky L1 Information Thread part 2

Hi Scott: You have two PM's from me attempting to contact you back about an order for a Floodmaster that we discussed.
Thanks, Dave
 

chakrawal

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Re: Milky L1 Information Thread part 2

Milkyspit:
I tried to PM you but your PM is full so I sent you an E-mail. Please check your E-mail.
Thanks,
Chakrawal
 

milkyspit

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Messages
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Re: Milky L1 Information Thread part 2

Hi chakrawal and others, yes, my CPF PM Inbox has been teering on the verge of being full for a few days now... rather than spending hours right away to empty it, I'm taking the opportunity to improve the way I handle such communications from my end of things. It's the latest round of process improvements here in the Milky Labs to allow for more efficient communications along with more time and effort spent where it counts, taking on peoples' orders and getting the builds done. As always, it's a work in progress! But looking at the state of things at the beginning of this year, it's clear that things have come a long way, with the intent to continue the improvement! :sweat:

I'm always trying to make things better.

Anyway, sorry to those who have had their PM bounced recently. I would encourage you to contact me by any of these alternate means...

[size=+2]How To Contact Milkyspit![/size]

In general, a PM on CPF is a good way to reach me, though there are occasions when this won't work... perhaps PM Inbox is full, perhaps CPF is having a hiccup...

If you can't get a PM sent on CPF, you might want to send one to me on CPF Marketplace. I monitor both.

Or you could send me an email... I suggest you put the word 'CPF' somewhere in the subject line to make it easier for me to separate your email from all the spam...

img-email-milky-quarryrun-com.gif


Regarding phone calls: I don't provide my phone number publicly but if you're unable to reach me by the above means, you might want to get my phone number from a fellow CPFer, there are several who know how to reach me. Or have them call me, give them a way I can get back to you (phone number and/or email address), and I'll get in touch as soon as I can. Sometimes a call is the best approach, though in many cases I would encourage you to try PM and/or email first.

If all else fails, post in this thread that you're trying to reach me. No need for details posted here, but at least I'll know I need to reach out to you!

Note: I do use Skype, which is potentially a useful way of doing a text chat... and I can call from Skype on my computer to a phone number pretty much anywhere in the world, so providing me with YOUR phone number would enable me to call YOU. Again, the above means of contact are probably preferable, but if it comes to it, this might be yet another way!

Hope this helps a bit.
 

DDS

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Messages
284
Re: Milky L1 Information Thread part 2

Email sent, per your suggestion.

Thanks,
Dave
 

Cat.HK

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Re: Milky L1 Information Thread part 2

Scott, the PM box is not functional again :shrug:, so I send a e-mail to you. :naughty:
 

scottaw

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Re: Milky L1 Information Thread part 2

I think my PM got through, but....it's there i sent it last thursday and im ready to start an ML-1 build, Thanks man.
 
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