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Thread: feeler thread: 6AA>2D adapters, prototype completed...

  1. #1
    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default feeler thread: 6AA>2D adapters, prototype completed...

    I was thinking about a simple magmod.... couldn't find anything but a litemania adapter... not sure what those are made like, and it looks like I'm not the only one looking for a way to get AAs into a mag in a nice low resistance fashion. Now.. I was thinking about making something for myself... but after making some phone calls (a great many to even find a source of the material I had in mind), the minimum order size for the bar stock I would be using is 8ft. All I need is about 5 inches of that for a 2D adapter, So I might as well put the whole bar to good use IF I order it (it's not exactly cheap). Which means making about a dozen or more 3AA>1D adapters and selling the ones I don't intend to use to help recover costs.

    I've spent the better part of the day making phone calls to source materials and sketching designs and figuring out this simple CAD program and all around pulling hair out... But I am slowly progressing in the direction of a 3AA>1D carrier.

    The design goals are as follows:
    1. Secure 3 AA sized cells in a reasonably sturdy fashion.
    2. Have those cells wired in series.
    3. Have all electrical connections very solid and low resistance. (heavy soldered copper interconnects)
    4. Have a stud sticking out the "positive" end with a nut on it, the nut will hold the assembly together and apply clamping force to the connections. With the nut removed, assembly can be screwed into the negative end of another adapter. This way you can stack adapters end to end with very low resistance (not just touching, but threaded together). Users could stack up to 6 packs, for anywhere from 6AA to 18AA in stock mag light sizes.
    5. Charging would be accomplished by charging leads with magnets that the user would attach to either end of the removed pack manually, I may consider making some little magnet loaded charging leads and including them with each adapter. I have no intension of making a charging jack, or including any special design that would cater to the use of a driver or anything, I'm trying to keep the design simple and functional without complication, and above all else, not infringe on any of the design aspects that make some of the existing modder/builder packs special (namely the AWR and FM packs).

    At this point, I have no idea if this will come to fruition: There are a ton of obstacles in the way at this point. I am waiting on a response to see if I would qualify for modder/builder status, (if not, then this won't happen, as the cost of a dealer "license" would nearly double the price I would have to charge for these things)... Also if the tooling requirements get way over my garages abilities I may have to bail out. Have to get my paypal setup to receive payment. If a lot of folks think that doing this would be unethical and unfair to current builders/modders I will not pursue it, as I don't want to be on anyones *bad* list. At this point I am thinking about doing 1 "run" in hopes that I can replace the cost of doing the "run."(including paying for some tools I'll need to add to the collection) Might be able to get 20-30 of them out of the first run depending on how many I screw up. Maybe more, not sure at this point.. If it goes well and there is remaining demand I might consider doing more "runs."

    so anyways... let me know if you are interested in adapters like this. Let me know if you would throw fruit at me, and let me know what you think.

    [edit in]
    here's some "Google Sketchup" example of where I'm going with this....


    ------------------------------------------------------------

    [edit in 10-9-2007]Ok folks, I've been messing with this for awhile and have spent a lot of money prototyping, at this time, I have come to the conclusion that 5mm isn't enough space to make a strong enough fastener arrangement to stack 3AA carriers end to end. I'm now going to just try for 6AA>2D carriers instead. With 10mm on either end of the cells to work with, these should be much more sturdy. I may be able to make these screw end-to-end, and will experiment with the possibility of a 9AA>3D carrier soon, (if I can come up with a way that the carriers could fasten together, and offer both 2D and 3D sizes, then anything from 2D to 6D mags could use these in stacked configurations).
    Last edited by mdocod; 10-23-2007 at 07:54 PM.

  2. #2
    Retired Administrator Norm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feeler... Stackable High-Current 3AA>1D adapters

    Sounds well thought out god luck with what's seems like a worthwhile project.
    Norm

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    Flashaholic* Aircraft800's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feeler... Stackable High-Current 3AA>1D adapters

    I like the idea af being able to thread one pack to the next! Great Idea!

    I'd bet you could sell a bunch of these. Any thoughts of a 4AA>1D? If they could be built with the cells tight together, the end user could purchase a brake hone and open up their M@g a little with a drill.

    I'd like 3 to make a 12AA>3D myself! I can just emagine the possibilities of running Li-Ion 14500 and a soon to be AW D Incan driver!

    If I extend it a little, I can run some 14670 also! Cool

  4. #4
    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feeler... Stackable High-Current 3AA>1D adapters

    Any thoughts of a 4AA>1D?
    unfortunately, I don't have any room in this design to do a 4 cell version without going well beyond the realm of a simple honing to fit into a mag. the 3AAs will actually be separated some by the carrier to make room for the main structure in the center, that structure will be what gives me room to tap in and have the threaded connection (planning on thread-locking and/or epoxying a stud into the plastic housing). Even with only 3 cells, it's going to be tight with some of the larger diameter cells, I'm trying to design in such a way that a AA UP TO 15mm in diameter (far end of the scale, maybe a really irregular shrink-wrap job for example) would fit but pretty snug in most stock mags.. Since I haven't had a chance to work with this material before, It'll be interesting to see how well it machines and holds strength with thin walls.. I guess the name brand is "Delran" and I've been told it's good for this type of work.

    As far as Li-Ion goes, i figured with all the buz about li-ion Cs and Ds around (Cs already available) I haven't really even thought about li-ion builds. The design really doesn't have room to be extended (for longer cells) unless it were built that way from the ground up.

    It's looking like including the stud, these are going to have to be closer to 65mm in length, but since the stud will screw into the next adapter, no matter how many adapters you stack, it's only 5mm longer than regular D cells would have been all together...

  5. #5
    Flashaholic ak645's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feeler... Stackable High-Current 3AA>1D adapters

    Hi mdocod,

    Great Idea! Although I'm not really interested in a 3AA to D holder I've no doubt you'll be able to sell them.

    I would not worry too much about infringing on one of AWRs designs.While he will gladly accept payment he seems a bit reluctant to actually ship the product.FiveMega design seems terrific but he only seems to sell his holders with flashlight purchase.So I am not sure whether or not a stand-alone adapter would be considered an infringement?

    I do not believe you'd have to register as a manufacturer with the resultant fee.My interpretation of CPF rules indicates this would qualify as a group purchase.

    Andy

  6. #6

    Default Re: Feeler... Stackable High-Current 3AA>1D adapters

    I can't speak for the CPF rules on selling stuff, but wanted to second what Andy said regarding creating these. I own one of FMs 6aa-2d adapters and one of the 8aa-2d adapters from the Sandwich Shoppe, both of which work very well. To me it appears your design is a different approach to the solution, making it unique and therefor not infringing on any one elses design (though I admit I haven't seen every design out there).

    As for stepping on other sellers toes, to satisfy your concerns you might want to email FM and AWR to let get their opinions. I'm sure they would be fine with it since it is your own design. I've actually been thinking about making some of my own battery adapters too (for my own use), and like you also thought about offering them for sale if it wasn't too much work building them. So far I haven't done this, but had the exact thought that I gave above that I would let the other guys know about it first before getting into the sales arena (which at the rate I'm going will probably never happen!).

  7. #7
    *Flashaholic* LuxLuthor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feeler... Stackable High-Current 3AA>1D adapters

    That is a unique holder. Make sure you consider the variation in AA diameters.

  8. #8
    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feeler... Stackable High-Current 3AA>1D adapters

    Yea, that picture only shows the beginnings of it, but the idea is that there will be a top "plate" that fastens to the to the top by means of 3 small screws. That plate will have the bolt inserted from the bottom, with it's threads protruding up out of the top (positive contact)..

    I started trying to make a prototype from 1.25" wooden dowel tonight, and to say the least, it's not going to be as easy as I had hoped. My experience thus far really brings my level of respect for current builders up a few notches as this type of custom stuff isn't easy.

    [edit in]
    I figured with wooden dowel I could tinker with the design at a low cost, and I figured if I can "machine" the design into wood, then machining it into plastic will be no problem later on.. so this will help give some insight into whether or not the design will work.




    Starting to look more like the center will just be hollowed out, and the 3 outer posts will provide support. this will leave more room for variances in battery size...
    Last edited by mdocod; 09-27-2007 at 11:03 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Feeler... Stackable High-Current 3AA>1D adapters

    Delrin is fantastic plastic. Many common uses are for simple, cheap bearings. Machining it will require exceptionally sharp tools to produce the best results. Have you considered a less expensive alternative like Nylon or UHMWPE (Ultra High Molecular Weight Poly Ethylene)?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Feeler... Stackable High-Current 3AA>1D adapters

    depending on your price, I would be interested in at least a couple of these.

  11. #11
    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feeler... Stackable High-Current 3AA>1D adapters

    a fellow CPFer just sent me a link to a source of nylon rod stock, which is slightly cheaper... I may end up going with that but I'd like to sample the Delrin and see if I can work with it, as it sounds like the highest strength option, which is important for this design. (being able to screw them together).. More strength means less complications and lower failure rate. I'm not going to call the design complete until it's reasonably solid and can handle being assembled and disassembled many times without a failure...

  12. #12

    Default Re: Feeler... Stackable High-Current 3AA>1D adapters

    If these will be reasonably priced I'd be interested in at least 4 units.
    I really hope it will come a reality and wish you a very good luck with this design

  13. #13
    *Flashaholic* Burgess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feeler... Stackable High-Current 3AA>1D adapters

    Sounds interesting.


    I'll be watching. Good luck !




    _

  14. #14
    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feeler... Stackable High-Current 3AA>1D adapters

    I've got 10 feet of plastic rod arriving tomorrow by UPS, I've got a pile of nuts and bolts in front of me, some new drill bits, a new vice with X/Y control bolted up to my drill press, drawings, templates, and a piece of copper plate stock. I've made contact with some fastener companies and will have some more bits and fasteners coming in soon. I am checking out the prospect of some custom fasteners that would make this design much more durable and easier to assemble.

    So... basically, at this point, this project is a "go." Doesn't mean it's going to work, there are a lot of remaining complications to resolve (all related to maintaining a 60mm length while being able to bolt together), but every day I find a new solution to a problem. I'm getting closer to a finalized design.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: interest thread ... High-Current 3AA>1D adapters that screw together

    I, for one, am anxiously awaiting the outcome of your experiment...

    Thanks!

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    Flashaholic* Daekar's Avatar
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    Default Re: interest thread ... High-Current 3AA>1D adapters that screw together

    I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how these turn out, particularly because FiveMega doesn't seem to be interested in making another run of 6AA->2D holders. I can commit to 4 pieces (two in the ROP and two spares) if they come out nicely.

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    Flashaholic* Toohotruk's Avatar
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    Default Re: interest thread ... High-Current 3AA>1D adapters that screw together

    Depending on the price, I would be interested in a couple of them myself...I want to build an ROP and it seems like 3AA to 1D, and 6AA to 2D adapters are rare beasts indeed!

  18. #18
    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default Re: interest thread ... High-Current 3AA>1D adapters that screw together

    as with all prototyping, complications keep cropping up... The 1.25" rod stock I ordered comes "oversized" more than I anticipated, ~1.3125" is the actual diameter, which does not fit a stock mag body. So I'm either going to have to trim it down some, which is really a job for a lathe (which I do not have), or just grind some material off the sides on the grinder, which I experimented with today with very reasonable results.

    I got a quote from one custom fastener manufacture, and the price would be so astronomical that there is no chance of that happening... but I found a different manufacture that already has a fastener very closer to what I need, and they offer custom re-size options in pre-existing designs, which may come in within the budget.

    The GOOD news, is that I spent the day playing around with cutting/drilling/fastening this plastic, and it is VERY good material for this type of work. Cuts easily with common shop tools, but is incredibly strong, takes machine threads without tapping very well. Seems very resistant to cracking, great balance of pliability and rigidity.

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    Flashaholic* Daekar's Avatar
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    Default Re: interest thread ... High-Current 3AA>1D adapters that screw together

    I'm glad to hear things are coming along well! Sounds like you have an excuse to buy a lathe, how could your gentler-half ever object? And remember... papal is locked and loaded!

  20. #20

    Default Re: interest thread ... High-Current 3AA>1D adapters that screw together

    It's a great idea !!! Engineering nylon (the stuff used for bearings) would be a great material to build the battery carrier out of. It's easy to machine. Good luck on your project. I would be interested in several (4+) of these.

    Regards,
    Leroy

  21. #21

    Default Re: interest thread ... High-Current 3AA>1D adapters that screw together

    I'm in as well, for a reasonable cost!

  22. #22

    Default Re: interest thread ... High-Current 3AA>1D adapters that screw together

    mate, why dont you just mod an existing adapter to make it series instead of parallel?

  23. #23
    Flashaholic* wvaltakis2's Avatar
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    Default Re: interest thread ... High-Current 3AA>1D adapters that screw together

    Since the center's hollowed out now is there any chance of a 4aa adaptor?

    ~Chip

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    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default Re: interest thread ... High-Current 3AA>1D adapters that screw together

    Since the center's hollowed out now is there any chance of a 4aa adaptor?
    actually I'm still tinkering on that design, having worked with the plastic I'm reverting back to my original design in the sketchup drawing. I could probably do a 4AA adapter but it would not screw together, isn't enough material for the strength required for that to work. My goal for now is a working, reliable, low resistance 3AA that screws end-to-end with others... when I get this working, I will probably start tinkering with other designs and see what I can do. A 4AA design may be doable but I might look into sinking a magnet into the head so the units will "hold" together for pack charging...

  25. #25
    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default Re: interest thread ... High-Current 3AA>1D adapters that screw together

    changed the thread title and included an update in the first post. Decided to go for 6AA>2D adapters instead. These will be much more feasible with off-the-shelf fasteners, and also much more sturdy with thicker end-caps and more length. I will also be able to sell them at a lower price than 2 3AA>1D adapters would have been.

    I've got some prototyping pictures to share. I've been working on this round the clock since conception. Feels slow going, but I'm getting closer.




  26. #26
    Flashaholic* MikeSalt's Avatar
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    Default Re: interest thread ... High-Current 3AA>1D adapters that screw together

    Looks good. Happy prototyping. The way that the holder envelopes the cells looks like it would offer good protection if you were ever to drop the adapter fully loaded. It will also increase the structural rigidity of the host flashlight if it were ever crushed.

  27. #27
    Flashaholic* Toohotruk's Avatar
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    Default Re: interest thread ... High-Current 6AA>2D adapters

    Still interested...depending on price of course!

  28. #28
    *Flashaholic* Burgess's Avatar
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    Default Re: interest thread ... High-Current 6AA>2D adapters

    Nice work !


    I, for one, am very happy with yer' decision
    to make them 6AA>2D adapters.


    Let us know when we can place our orders !



    _

  29. #29

    Default Re: interest thread ... High-Current 6AA>2D adapters

    use copper rivets for the battery contacts





    copper rivet:

    MY EDC: JETBEAM M1X - it replaced 8 other lights.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: interest thread ... High-Current 6AA>2D adapters

    Definitely a potential customer here. Keep the info and pics coming.

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