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Thread: Fenix use on Glock

  1. #1
    Unenlightened dvas's Avatar
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    Default Fenix use on Glock

    Hi,

    I am new to this forum. I found it while looking for a LED upgrade for my Maglite 2AA. Originally, I wanted to purchase Surefire Aviator 2A, since it was a hybrid, just what I was looking for, but it was using CR123.
    I was looking for a flashlight, that will use my Sanyo Eneloop NiHM, have a controlled output and potenially put it on my Glock if needed (I am not LEO), when either volunteering as LEO or at home in case of emergency.
    Then I heard about Fenix, and it had it all.. almost!
    THen I found Fenix L2D-CE and L2T!!!
    Does anyone tried to mount it on a hand gun and to shoot with it? WHere can I get a mount?
    Any other recommendations? The use is EDC, and in rare ocasions on gun and volunteering as traffic LEO. Of course, with non-power situations and around car.

    thanks from Israel

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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    I have not heard of, nor seen a pistol mount for a Fenix light. Perhaps someone else has but I have been looking around for a new mounts/lights to see wha is out there and have not yet seen on.
    Lee

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  3. #3
    Unenlightened dvas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    I am not so worried about the mount... there are plenty out there. I am more worried how the lens will react after shooting and if the light is going to 'survive' a shooting

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    *Flashaholic* Gunner12's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    The L2D would net be good for a gun-mounted light. the Recoil of the gun will cause the light to change modes. The L2T V2.0 would be better for this task. The glass window should have no problem, it shouldn't break(I don't think I've heard of a single instance of a Fenix light's window breaking). The light should also take the recoil without problem.

    A dedicated weapon light would be a better option.

    Last edited by Gunner12; 11-03-2007 at 02:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    I would not use anything other than Surefire or Streamlight in conjunction with any of my firearms. I just don't trust any one else for such a critical task. Just my opinion.

  6. #6
    *Flashaholic* Patriot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    Quote Originally Posted by CM View Post
    I would not use anything other than Surefire or Streamlight in conjunction with any of my firearms. I just don't trust any one else for such a critical task. Just my opinion.
    I 100% agree with CM with the addition of Insight Technologies to that mix.

    I also disagree with the idea the the L2D and L2T would make good weapon lights, especially on a handgun. It's not just about if you can find a mount to fit or if the lens will survive the recoil or muzzle blast it's about the the package as a whole. No aftermarket mount will provide you with the minimalist simplicity that is built into an x300 for example. Ergonomics is a huge factor when considering a light for a weapon and simply bolting on an 'inline' battery tube to you firearm is usually a sub-standard choice. A weapon light has to be easy to activate and you don't want the light sticking way out past your muzzle for many reasons. The reason dedicated weapon lights exist is because the other alternatives come up short. You had mentioned that you were more worried about if the light would survive "a shooting." That's a good thing to be concerned about. Weapon lights were designed specifically for that purpose while Fenix was never designed or tested for that. It just might survive a shooting or ten but is it going to be working when your life is on the line? Who knows...it's a wildcard. Inexpensive, imported, handheld lights, mounted to Airsoft guns and other pretend activities is fine, but when it comes to real life, reliability, repeatability and ergonomics are what matters. Seriously...use the Fenix for finding stuff under your car seat, but don't sell yourself short on a light for your weapon. Your life is worth way more than the $100-$200 dollar difference.



    Oh, I almost forgot..........welcome to CPF
    Last edited by Patriot; 11-03-2007 at 02:17 PM.

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    *Flashaholic* Monocrom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    You want to mount a Fenix on a Glock Handgun?

    No.... just no. Here's why....

    Fenix lights are far from junk. But they don't have the level of rugged reliability needed for use on a weapon, carried for self-defense. I'm not even sure how you'd mount a Fenix light on a Glock.

    Better options would be a Streamlight or Surefire, dedicated weapon light. Or which ever weapon light Glock recommends you use.
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    Flashaholic* PhantomPhoton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    I would never use a Fenix mounted on a firearm.
    Their durability is untested in such a situation. I also point out that the Fenix will be useless in many situations because of the switching method employed.
    Eneloops are nice, but not nice enough to risk one's life for the convenience of AA batteries.
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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot36 View Post
    ...don't sell yourself short on a light for your weapon. Your life is worth way more than the $100-$200 dollar difference.



    Oh, I almost forgot..........welcome to CPF
    +1

    You've articulated it better than I!

  10. #10
    Unenlightened dvas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    Guys, thanks for your valuable information!
    You raised some important points that I didn't think about.

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    Flashaholic* ACMarina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    Heck, doesn't Glock make a light themselves?? What about that??

    The only downside to the dedicated weapon lights, dvas, is that they aren't going to use your batteries. My life is worth buying a box of Surefire CR123s, though, so I don't worry about that part..
    I love my Al-PD

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    Unenlightened dvas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    well, it is easy for you guys in US to say to buy a box of Surefire CR123 batteries... I am in Israel and in order to get over here, I need to pay a LOT of money. I have never used and do not intend to use the light with my Glock, but I would like to have that option in the case of....
    As a temp solution, i ordered a CREE update for my MM, just to understand and see how good that is, and to make my MM usefull around the house.
    but thanks for the tips.

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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    dvas, welcome.

    You have hit on an issue that I expect/hope will be addressed in the coming months. That is: using AA batteries to power tactical lights. With the increased efficiency of LEDs, there is no reason why manufacturers shouldn't transition to offering tactical grade lights that will run on AA batts. Or at a minimum, offer dedicated weapon lights that will run on ONE CR123 thus allowing a smaller and lighter form factor for the light (this is an issue primarily with pistols). FWIW, I know of one small builder who has plans for a 150 lumen MM, but that is still on the drawing board and I will say no more about this.

    I don't know if you have access to an AR/AK, but if so, that would be a more viable platform on which to mount a "lesser" light. Better terminal ballistics too.
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  14. #14
    Unenlightened dvas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    just over a year ago, 2x CR123 was $10 here in Israel... I don't know today's prices... But I imagine, you wouldn't buy for that price....

    Bloodnut, I just have my Glock

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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    Quote Originally Posted by dvas View Post
    just over a year ago, 2x CR123 was $10 here in Israel... I don't know today's prices... But I imagine, you wouldn't buy for that price....

    Bloodnut, I just have my Glock
    That's about what it cost today from US retail outlets. They have a 10 year shelf life so for use in conjunction with a personal defense item, it's cheap insurance. I guess you can think of it another way. You can use your Fenix and think of it as "better than nothing". But it's still a big compromise considering the potential required use of the light.

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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    dvas,

    $5 per CR123 is not far off the going retail rate in the U.S. Used sparingly, as tactical lights are, it might be justifiable. Just a thought.

    If it helps, Safariland has begun marketing a light attachment called the RLS. It is advertised as being a quick attach/detach rig which will accomodate any light that has a one inch body. I don't care for the concept myself, but it might be a good way for you to experiment with multiple lights.

    You are in a tough environment over there what with the current demeanor of your country's neighbors. I had the impression that most able bodied males (and some females) were pretty well outfitted with small arms as a matter of necessity.
    If you're gonna be stupid, you'd better be tough!

  17. #17

    Rolleye11 Re: Fenix use on Glock

    I have had a CCW permit for many years. I have owned handguns for home defense for even longer. I was trained to use all kinds of weapons in the military over 30 years ago.

    As a civilian, I cannot think of single reason where a weapon mounted flashlight (on a handgun) would be preferable to an unmounted light.

    They don't fit in holsters (for the most part). They generally require fine motor skills that are lost in the stress of use in actual self defense conditions. They are small and not nearly as versatile as a handheld light, and they provide a target for a threat (which is true with any light, but a hand-held light can be manipulated in ways a rail mounted light cannot be)

    Along with night sights, I think that they are a waste of money. I will never understand the popularity of night sights for self defense..they do nothing at all to illuminate a target - in fact in realistic self defense distances, I don't think sights are useful at all.... I practice shooting without sights for self defense. To me, sights are great for target shooting. Or hunting (I guess...I've never hunted for sport). I do target shoot, and for that, sights are essential. To hit an assailant 8 feet away in a life or death situation, I don't expect to have any time to line up sights. Or even the steadiness to try if I did have the time.

    I think a comfortably sized hand-held flashlight is an ideal companion to a handgun for home defense. For concealed carry, a rail mounted light is going to require a holster that makes concealment even more difficult.

    I've owned exactly one pistol with a rail on it (a Springfield XD9 SC) and I have since sold it. (not because of the rail, which was very small and only took specially designed lights and lasers for such a small rail anyway). A fine gun, but too bulky for concealed carry for me, not a fun range gun and I have better guns for home defense. So as good a gun as it was, it had no purpose for me.

    As a law enforcement officer, or a combat soldier, then the reasons for light rails become obvious and useful. Even necessary.

    I carry a tiny gun CCW (Kel Tec P32) and a tiny light in my pocket - a Fenix or Ultrafire or other single cell cree light.

    At home, I keep a full size .45 1911 (and other large guns...too large to carry concealed) and an assortment of flashlights handy.

    If I ever heard an intruder in my house (has never happened, thankfully), I believe the light I would go for first would be the largest one i keep nearby....a 3 D cell Mag.

    I've talked about this on several gun boards. Also, I have questioned the usefullness of night sights for self defense. In all the years, I have never heard one single argument that I felt justified the use of night sights. Yet they are among the most popular extras sold to gun owners. To me, they serve no purpose at all (other than maybe at a shooting range) - I feel the same way about rail mounted lights and lasers for self defene.

    Just my 2 cents. And of course proper lights for weapon rails are expensive. So for me, they are not only useless, but expensive to boot. Again....I see no reason for them in civilan use at all. But I'm open to hear other opinions

    Maybe people buy them because they have a "cool factor"? But IMO a hand-held larger light is just a far superior asset if a light is needed.

    I'll add one last comment. Any money spent on accessories like rail mounted lights, lasers, night sights, exotic ammunition, etc...would be FAR FAR more effectively spent on lessons in how to properly use a handgun in self defense. I'd guess that 99% of gun owners today have little or no training at all. They don't even know the most basic rules of safety. The gun shop five minutes from my home has 11 bullet holes in the walls and display cases to prove that there are too many people with no interest in even knowing how to safely handle a deadly weapon. All that is required of them is they have the money to buy a gun and no criminal record.

    To get a driver's learners permit, you have to read a pamphlet and take a one minute quiz to prove you did read it. To buy a gun....nothing at all. Scary!

    Peace,
    D.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    Well, I only see people mounting the laser and flashlight to a BB or CO2 gun for playing the war game.

    In real world, one hand holding the gun, the others holding whatever brand flashlight come across beneath the gun holding hand, pointing toward as the same aiming target.

    So Fenix, Surefire, Ultrafire, JetBeam, ever ordinary Mini-Maglite can be used on Glock. Another hand is the mounting.

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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    Quote Originally Posted by Delij View Post
    To get a driver's learners permit, you have to read a pamphlet and take a one minute quiz to prove you did read it. To buy a gun....nothing at all. Scary!

    Peace,
    D.

    yeah maybe guns should be so regulated where you have to get some bureaucrat's permission before you buy one.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    There are options. The new RLS from Safariland is designed to accommodate some of what you want to achieve. Depending on the diameter of the light, the RLS mount is available without the Coast POS it comes with for mount of your own light. While I agree with Delij that money is generally better spent on effective training, I do believe that there are considerable holster options for both duty and concealed carry on the market that accommodate lights in an unobtrusive manner. If you'd like a list of holsters that accommodate lights, duty, concealed, and otherwise, let me know and I can generate easily. Many agencies in our area advocate weapons mounted lights carried full-time and belt mounted flashlight for search as well. As for ease of use, the most difficult, or perhaps it's just different, light I've used is the new Xiphos. the rocker switches are strange and I do not see a point in a pistol light with UI. Lights from Surefire, Streamlight, and Insight all have a very easily operated gross-motor paddle. Train, train, train. Muscle memory rules.
    That being said, daily carry of an S&W M&P 9C is w/o light. Offside pocket has a NovaTac 120T. My only alternative is the Insight M2X, that I do not care for. I do not own any Fenix lights, and cannot comment on their durability. I do, however, have the RLS for T&E and would be more than happy to test someones Fenix for them .

    Link to RLS: LINK

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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    Just curious, how many of you saying fenix won't work have actually tried it and found it to be lacking, instead just repeating what the previous guy said?

  22. #22
    Unenlightened dvas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    Delij, thanks for the time that you took to write your view... your points are something to consider, especially since I don't have any combat experience, only range experience every 2-3-4 weeks.

    I don't have a clue about these lumens that are stated for different lights. I have experience with my old 2xAA Maglite and my 4xD Maglite with their original bulb and my diving 4x DD light that is using Crypton (or Xenon, i don't remember) bulb... So old these new LEDs are new to me.
    I ordered a CREE Terralux LED for my MM, and I will finally 'see' what is this all about.

    thanks again

  23. #23
    *Flashaholic* Monocrom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    Quote Originally Posted by Delij View Post
    .... I'd guess that 99% of gun owners today have little or no training at all. They don't even know the most basic rules of safety. The gun shop five minutes from my home has 11 bullet holes in the walls and display cases to prove that there are too many people with no interest in even knowing how to safely handle a deadly weapon. All that is required of them is they have the money to buy a gun and no criminal record.

    Peace,
    D.
    Now that's just one of the broadest blanket statements I've ever seen on these forums. You were making excellent points, until you made that statement. Please don't judge all gun owners or gun ranges by the shi**y standards that you have seen. When I train, it's at the only gun range left in Manhattan. There are no bullet holes in the ceiling, and definitely not in the display cases. Darren wouldn't put up with that sort of BS. Anyone found screwing around would be kicked out on their @$$.

    It's unfortunate that the range owner over by you, refuses to enforce basic safety rules. I suspect he doesn't even teach the basic safety rules. From what I've personally seen at the range I go to, that 99% figure is horribly over exaggerated.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    To: dvas -

    A case of 12 Surefire cells costs $21. Granted, it's going to be more than that when you factor in the shipping costs to Israel. But those cells will last you 10 years. If this is just a project you want to experiment with, perhaps it is not worth the cost. If this is something you are likely to carry for potential use against a terrorist attack or a S.D encounter, well; cost is something you just have to deal with. Life-saving gear and the accessories needed for that gear.... What can I say? You end up eating the costs involved. So does everyone else.

    As far as lumens ratings go, everyone except Surefire and Pelican measures their lumens numbers at the emitter. Meaning, that when the head is attached, the lumens out the front will be considerably less than at the emitter. This is always the case. Sometimes 1/3 less, sometimes half! And yes, sometimes even worse than half. Example: Streamlight UltraStinger - Rated at 295 lumens, actual number out the front = about 160 lumens. But with Surefire and Pelican, they measure out the front. A surefire light rated at 100 lumens is going to be 100 actual lumens or even a bit more than that. Just keep that in mind.
    Last edited by Monocrom; 11-04-2007 at 12:15 PM. Reason: New info.
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    *Flashaholic* Monocrom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    Quote Originally Posted by jzmtl View Post
    Just curious, how many of you saying fenix won't work have actually tried it and found it to be lacking, instead just repeating what the previous guy said?
    Bottom line, I'm saying it's not going to work. Not even the most die-hard Fenix fan can say with a straight face that his favorite brand has the level of rugged reliability needed, to work as a weapon light. Fenix has zero models designed to be used as weapon lights. That extreme level of quality isn't there. Let's be realistic.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    Quote Originally Posted by Monocrom View Post
    Bottom line, I'm saying it's not going to work. Not even the most die-hard Fenix fan can say with a straight face that his favorite brand has the level of rugged reliability needed, to work as a weapon light. Fenix has zero models designed to be used as weapon lights. That extreme level of quality isn't there. Let's be realistic.
    ok LETS be realistic. My Glocklight has stood up to hundreds of rounds of 40 S&W, 45ACP and 9x19. These are not magnum rounds. It is made of plastic and uses a incan bumb. Frankly its not as sturdy as a Fenix. The advantage is it used stacked batts instead of inline, has a built in mount and a well located switch. Those are the issues, not if a fenix can take the light recoil of a service pistol. I dislike a light being on my gun and don't carry with it on. The glocklight is basically a toy for me.

    A drop from a few feet up is worse than a recoild from a pistol and I bet you could drop a Fenix thousands of times and not break it.


    ETA

    I reread my post and its to harsh but I'm not gonna edit it because the facts are there and I'm to lazy to sift out my rude tone while leaving the message. Plus its not directed at you but to the general feeling that 9mm and 45acp are some super toture devices for our lights. We abuse our lights much more than a guy who uses it on a gun does. Even in EDC.
    Last edited by FredM; 11-04-2007 at 01:48 PM.

  26. #26
    *Flashaholic* carrot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    Personally I think an L2T 2.0 held with the Harries technique should be fine. You don't subject it to much recoil like this and the Fenixes have proven themselves quite reliable. Perhaps they aren't designed or marketed for the tactical market but they are pretty unlikely to just randomly fail. I am a big Surefire fan but let's face it, the needs of the OP seem to point towards the use of NiMH or alkaline cells and Surefire has yet to enter this realm (despite displaying prototypes in 2006).

    I am also surprised that nobody has come up with the most convenient answer -- rechargeable Li-ion batteries! Despite the higher initial investment, with the high cost of importing primaries, they wiill easily pay for themselves within a few uses. You can easily take a Surefire G2 or G2Z or 6P or Z2 and put the following options:
    - 3.7v lamp and a 17650 Li-ion
    - 9v lamp and a pair of 3.7v RCR123 Li-ions
    - Cree or Seoul LED drop-in replacements, whose input range usually is around 3.7-6.0v or 3.7-9.0v
    - Surefire's own P60L (L stands for LED), which is conservative on primaries and may work on Li-ions

    Or the most idiot-proof way, a 9P or a G3 with the regular P90 bulb and two 17500 Li-ion batteries.

    Another solution -- forget Surefire altogether and use the other brand well known to LEOs across the nation -- Streamlight. The Streamlight Strion is 6P-sized, rechargeable and runs longer than any of the aforementioned incandescent options thanks to its extremely large Li-ion battery. A bonus is that it sits in a cradle so it is always going to be ready when you grab it to go.
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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    Delji et. al.,

    I too have posted on other boards re: the weaponlight issue. Here's my take. For CCW, a weaponlight is probably over the top.

    For a nightstand pistol, it provides options. When the day (night, actually) comes and you have to hold the bad guy at gunpoint until the police arrive, do you want to do that with a pistol in one hand and light in the other? Or would you rather be able to maintain a good two-handed hold on the pistol while lighting the threat as appropriate.

    When the day comes that you feel the need to enter a dark room and the door to that room is closed, please explain how that is going to work with a pistol in one hand and light in the other. I've done this in "real time" - not fun.

    The fact is, most people don't train with lights enough to be effective with them in a real confrontation. The light is mostly going by the wayside when the fur starts flying. The weapon-mounted light provides options. You don't HAVE to use it if the situation dictates, but it's there if you need it. You will still need the handheld.

    As for this business that rails make pistols somehow unfit for concealed carry - I'll have to call you on that. And I've read the same comment from some pretty switched on guys. But for me, the comment simply does not hold true. My two primary carry pistols are a Kimber Warrior (railed 1911) and S&W M&P. Both carry IWB with no problems. YMMV.

    In closing, there is a good reason why military and LEOs mount lights on weapons. Bad things tend to occur after dark and it is a cast iron b!@*h to run a light AND a pistol at the same time.
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  28. #28
    Flashaholic* ACMarina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    Do you carry IWB WITH the light on there??
    I love my Al-PD

  29. #29

    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodnut View Post
    As for this business that rails make pistols somehow unfit for concealed carry - I'll have to call you on that.
    I didn't mean to say that pistols with rails were unfit for concealed carry. What I meant was that the rails just aren't useful for CCW. The rails don't get in the way, they don't make the gun any less effective, etc. - In fact I said I bought an XD for CCW....the rails just happened to be on it. Didn't bother me at all. (just ended up not using the gun, but not because of the rails, just because i wanted something smaller--if I was not in S. Florida, it might have been fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by FredM View Post
    yeah maybe guns should be so regulated where you have to get some bureaucrat's permission before you buy one.
    LOL...I just KNEW someone would say something like this.

    In Florida guns aren't even registered. But personally, I would have no issue with a gun buyer having to demonstrate they know the basics of safety before a dealer will sell them a gun. Read a one paragraph sheet of basic safety rules...that's it. No records would need to be kept. They could shred the sheet of paper that would at least show that the buyer has read they are aware not to point a gun at anything they are not willing to destroy, keep their finger off the trigger until ready to fire, be aware of backstops, etc....just the very most basic of safety rules.

    Nothing formal, nothing regulated by the state or any govt. agency. Just common sense and just between the buyer and seller. In fact, the gun dealers would far prefer such a requirement. But their hands are tied down here. No one needs any knowledge of anything. Just money and a clean record. They don't even have to look at the gun they buy. They can take it in the box it comes from the factory in and not know which end is the muzzle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monocrom View Post
    Now that's just one of the broadest blanket statements I've ever seen on these forums. You were making excellent points, until you made that statement. Please don't judge all gun owners or gun ranges by the shi**y standards that you have seen. When I train, it's at the only gun range left in Manhattan. There are no bullet holes in the ceiling, and definitely not in the display cases. Darren wouldn't put up with that sort of BS. Anyone found screwing around would be kicked out on their @$$.

    It's unfortunate that the range owner over by you, refuses to enforce basic safety rules. I suspect he doesn't even teach the basic safety rules. .
    Yup, you are right. i would not expect this kind of thing in Manhatten. Even here, it isn't the fault of the gunshop owners. People just don't pay attention.

    There's a HUGE sign on the front door of the place that says "no loaded or concealed weapons permitted inside store". But because there are no requirements for any kind of safety acknowledgement (NOT LICENCING OR REGISTRATION....JUST COMMON SENSE STUFF). People can buy a gun, a box of ammo, take it home, load it, don't know how the safety works or whatever, so they walk back into the shop (not even looking at the sign on the door) with the gun they think is "broken" or 'defective" and while they are waiting to speak to someone, they play with the gun and boom!

    Everyone knows what a Glock is, so they figure they should buy one. Cops carry them, TV characters carry them, hell, someone once asked me what kind of "Glock" the gun I had been shooting at the range was. It was a stainless Smith revolver!!!!! But Glock is a name they know, so they buy them.

    Put a Glock in completely untrained hands, and it's a negligent discharge waiting to happen. (IMO).

    What can the store owners down here really do? Anyone can buy a gun. They can buy a gun and give it as a gift to anyone at all with not even a receipt - let alone any responsibility to show the recipient where the safety is (if there is one).

    i am not saying there should be more gun control. I'm saying that common sense should be part of the responsibility of gun ownership.

    You have a small gun store like the one by me...maybe 5 employees on a Saturday and most of the day the place is slow. But all of a sudden there's a rush and 20 people standing around waiting to be helped. And playing with their loaded "jammed" (they may believe) guns. And accidents happen.

    I can't even guess how many times I've been on the range and some guy will bring a date....girlfriend or maybe just a first date. Woman has never shot a gun before in her life. She stands at the line, points the gun at the target (maybe even keeps her eyes open when she pulls the trigger), and wow....she hits the target. She's so excited she turns around with a big proud smile and is now pointing the gun right at the boyfriend with her finger on the trigger. And in the process of turning around, she sweeps everyone on the range.

    So yeah....safety awareness matters.

    Again, i know this doesn't happen in Manhatten. But down here, where everyone can and most do own a gun, this stuff goes on all the time.

    I will NEVER go on the range on a Saturday afternoon. It's just not worth the risk. They have closed circuit monitors with a camera on every station. But it only takes a fraction of a second for something bad to happen.

    I think that the ease of getting a CCW permit here is a saving grace. At least to get a carry permit, you are required to sit through a class that is almost 100% about how to safely carry a firearm.

    But to buy a gun? Just money and a driver's license (or any picture ID with a date of birth).

    Peace,
    D.

  30. #30
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    662

    Default Re: Fenix use on Glock

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodnut View Post
    As for this business that rails make pistols somehow unfit for concealed carry - I'll have to call you on that
    Rails don't make it unfit. Its the light on there that makes it harder to carry.
    Last edited by FredM; 11-04-2007 at 05:03 PM.

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