Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 8/27/2010 (Newer Info Added)

[Kiessling]

I am relieved to hear that !!!

Once you have the backup, please contact staff (I suggest: Unforgiven, Sasha, Empath) to put it back where it belongs.

Again ... sorry ... for whatever mistake happened and the confusion and grief it caused.

bernie

[SilverFox]

Hello LuxLuthor,

Although I really don't know exactly what I did, I believe I was the only one editing your post trying to get the title updated. Since I was the only one there, I take the entire blame for the missing post.

Sorry...

OK, bring on the tar and feathers.

Tom

[LuxLuthor]

Tom,

We will get it all fixed, no problems.

Thankfully Filippo saved a complete copy of post before my last update which I can put back in....then I can send it as a PM that should preserve all the content and formatting. Thanks for great phone call....

[FILIPPO]

.......

[thezman]

Glad to see this thread on the road to repair. Too much good info to get lost.

Oh, and Tom, everybody knows you don't tar and feather a Silver Fox, you make a coat out of it.

[LuxLuthor]

OK, Unforgiven restored it back....so we are all set. Backup made.

Thanks again to Filippo and everyone's help.

[SilverFox]

Hello Thezman,

OK enough of that... (nervously looking over my shoulder...)

I am glad to see this resolved.

Tom

[chuck614]

PM sent.

[petrev]

Hi LUX,

I've just been getting JimmyM to upgrade 2 of my JM-SSTs for 40V+ use and I sent him an Osram 64663 to test while he was doing it.

He set it up on his Mastech HY5020 and this is what he sent me - All results direct from Mastech no independent voltage/current readings.

OK. I just returned from my la-BOR-a-tory.

.Volts --- Amps

36.0V --- 12
36.5V --- 12.1
37.0V --- 12.15
37.5V --- 12.3
38.0V --- 12.4
38.5V --- 12.5
39.0V --- 12.6
39.5V --- 12.7
40.0V --- 12.8 ( 512 W )
40.5V --- 12.9
41.0V --- 13
41.5V --- 13.1
42.0V --- 13.2
42.5V --- 13.3 ( 565.25 W )
42.5+ . . . . Pffft.

When it blew, it did not do quietly.
It started flickering and arcing, then started about 1 second of sustained intense blue arcing.

At that point it made a VERY sharp POOF!

The arcing caused localized melting of the glass envelope and the intense pressure blew a small hole in the base of the bulb. It blew it's guts out on my bi-pin base and 1 week old bench top. I suppose some damage had to happen at some point.

At 41 volts, to say it's impressive is an understatement. It was INSANE!

. . .
I'm enclosing your blown bulb so you can see what I'm talking about . . .

Wish I could have seen the "sustained intense blue arcing" etc. - Can't wait to see the bulb ! ! !

Don't know if you can feed these figures into your XL-Sheet (Voltage not from pins and no LUX measurements of course) but rather interesting results none the less !
Wonder what the predicted lamp life is at say 40V - 41.6V

41.6V just happens to be my guesstimate of 13x A123 cells under this approximate load ?

CAUTION - Safety Glasses Needed . . .

Cheers
Pete

[Spypro]

A quick question here:
I already have a nice Mag85: 3 x AW rechargeable 18650, AW softstart and all of this in a 4 C body.

What would be the brightest options with the battery setup I have ?

[Fulgeo]

Hey LuxLuther.

PM Sent!

[EvilLithiumMan]

A quick question here:
I already have a nice Mag85: 3 x AW rechargeable 18650, AW softstart and all of this in a 4 C body.

What would be the brightest options with the battery setup I have ?

IIRC, 2C is the maximum safe limit for 18650 cells. So if your cells are 2200mah capacity, 4400ma is max. safe load. 11.7V x 4.4A is 51W, so a 50W bulb your best (safest) bet. There are 12V, 50W bulbs available, but you won't be overdriving them at a nominal 11.7 volts. I don't know if 10V, 50W bulbs exist, that would be the way to go.

[beetleguise]

Lux, I need some advice. I used to run a 5761 with 2 aw c cells and an incan smartdriver, but I kept tripping the over discharge PCB protection. I now am running a 5761 with 2 D lithium protected cells. I am having no over discharge problems since these are 5000 ma capacity, but I am flashing bulbs when I am fully charged even with my incan smart driver. If I accidentally go full high, POOF! I wish my driver automatically started in low, or I could regulate max voltage. What bulb would work best, or, what would you do to keep from POOFing?
Thanks!

[Fulgeo]

Lux, I need some advice. I used to run a 5761 with 2 aw c cells and an incan smartdriver, but I kept tripping the over discharge PCB protection. I now am running a 5761 with 2 D lithium protected cells. I am having no over discharge problems since these are 5000 ma capacity, but I am flashing bulbs when I am fully charged even with my incan smart driver. If I accidentally go full high, POOF! I wish my driver automatically started in low, or I could regulate max voltage. What bulb would work best, or, what would you do to keep from POOFing?
Thanks!

The 2D Lithium cells are probably 4.0 - 4.1 volts fresh off the charger. Pick up a VOHM meter if you do not already have one and measure the voltage of your cells. If it is over say 3.8 volts per cell you will need to lower it. There are two schools of thought. Some say to wait until the cells stabilize but I find that the newer lithium cells stay up near 3.9-4.0 volts per cell for a long time. What I do is use my charger to discharge the cells at half the bulb amperage and watch the voltage. When it drops to the desired level then you can use them. If your charger does not have the ability to discharge you can use a safer higher amperage bulb. You could also connect one cell to a 5761 bulb for 30 seconds per bulb. This would probably lower your voltage to safe levels. When in doubt just use your VOHM to measure the voltages you are working with. Happy Modding!

[Action]

Hmmm. Where does one get protected D cells? Does AW carry them now?

[Gunnerboy]

.

[LuxLuthor]

This is where some of us have added an NTC and/or resistor to keep voltage in that narrow range below flashing. Ideally, the best setup is one of AWR's HotDriver Regulators.

[RustyKnee]

Hi Lux

as I mentioned in your battery thread I received my pack....ta very much .

I just took the battery fresh of the charger where it terminated itself....and tried it within 1 minute on the Philips 13100 12V 100W builbs I have with AW's multi level soft start switch.......It didn't poof!

So either I have a volt drop somewhere....or this bulb can take 13 cells. I might tale the light into work tomorrow to see if I can find any volt drops....but it might be worth you testing this bulb aswell as it is an axial filament and hopefully can take the voltage (if it turns out my light isn't dropping current anywhere).

Stu

[LuxLuthor]

That is a 100W bulb, so it may very well have enough "balls" to hold up to a 15.6V pack. You might try to stick DMM probes in bulb holes just to see that voltage is showing up there, but that does not tell you how much resistance you have in your setup.

[RustyKnee]

That is a 100W bulb, so it may very well have enough "balls" to hold up to a 15.6V pack. You might try to stick DMM probes in bulb holes just to see that voltage is showing up there, but that does not tell you how much resistance you have in your setup.

I have some other bulb sockets that will take these bulbs. I am not sure if we have a man enough psu at work to try them on. I know it does 10 Amps, but I am not sure it can do it at the required voltage. I will look today.

I hope it works as this may be another option for 13 cells and a round beam (looking at your tests 13 cells was a bit too far for most). the only major artifact is the shadow from the wire (ala HID hehe).

(Great battery by the way)

Stu

[LuxLuthor]

Let me know, Stu. Good to hear battery pack is working out!

I have some bulbs I'm testing (& have tested but not posted yet) from Fulgeo & Chuck614.

[RustyKnee]

Hi Lux,

I just whacked the 13100 on a 35V 10A PSU at work 5 minutes ago. I used the same Bulb holder

I didn't use a DVM, just the PSU display so it may be a bit off (I will check at lunch). But.....

The PSU got to its 10.35 indicated limit with 17Volts applied and no pop....over 170 watts with a axial filament. I will check with test equipment....but so far this looks like a bulb that can take a beasting.

update - The PSU display was accurate enough. It was with +-0.2 units from measured with a DVM and Current Clamp.

Stu

[Patriot]

Lux, it appears that 8 x AW 18650s will sufficiently drive the 64655 but not the 64657. Is that correct?

Thanks

[WildChild]

Does anyone know what kind of lifespan I can expect from the WA 1111 bulb on 6 AA Eneloop?

[Crenshaw]

I am just realising the usefullness of this thread. Thank you LuxLuthor!

Crenshaw

[LuxLuthor]

OK, I finally got the bulbs from Fulgeo & Chuck614 tested and posted, namely:

• KaiDomain KD-773U (6V 23W) that I extrapolated lower values from their 8.3V promotional listing.

• Westinghouse 4743 (12V 20W)

• Hikari JC5043 (12V 50W)

• Hikari JC5051 (12V 75W)

• Osram HLX-64656 (24V 275W)

[LuxLuthor]

Lux, it appears that 8 x AW 18650s will sufficiently drive the 64655 but not the 64657. Is that correct?

Thanks

Not the AW cells with the 12 Amp draw ranges. You need to use the high current Emoli or Konion safe chemistry...then let's see...8 x 3.7 to 4.1V is a range of 29.6 to 32.8V which favors the 64657 because it tolerated higher voltage....but you really need to look at your overall resistance in the light, hopefully have a soft starter, etc.

Does anyone know what kind of lifespan I can expect from the WA 1111 bulb on 6 AA Eneloop?

It's not real easy to answer you because those cells will give a voltage range of 7.2 to 8.6V depending on charge level...then it depends on how much resistance you have in your light that will drop the voltage effectively delivered to the bulb. In a typical FiveMega setup using stock parts and his drop-in bulb holder, you will see about a 0.75 to 0.95 Volt drop from the values I listed in my chart.

I am just realising the usefullness of this thread. Thank you LuxLuthor!

Crenshaw

Appreciate your note.

[Fulgeo]

Thanks LuxLuthor! I have been using the KaiDomain bulb to make flashlights for family. The nice thing about this bulb is I can drive it with 6 NiMH battery packs and get about 500 Lumens without having to worry about the following:

Heat. Not enought to cause a fire or worry about durring long run times.

Insta Flash - not a problem for a CPFer but a major consideration when you give a modded flashlight to someone that does not even have a VOHM. How do you tell a teenager not to use the flashlight for a day after you charge it?

60+ minute run times with 2700+ Mah AA batterys.

Unusually long bulb life.

OK, I finally got the bulbs from Fulgeo & Chuck614 tested and posted, namely:

• KaiDomain KD-773U (6V 23W) that I extrapolated lower values from their 8.3V promotional listing.

• Westinghouse 4743 (12V 20W)

• Hikari JC5043 (12V 50W)

• Hikari JC5051 (12V 75W)

• Osram HLX-64656 (24V 275W)

[FILIPPO]

Thanks LuxLuthor! I have been using the KaiDomain bulb to make flashlights for family. The nice thing about this bulb is I can drive it with 6 NiMH battery packs and get about 500 Lumens without having to worry about the following:

Heat. Not enought to cause a fire or worry about durring long run times.

Insta Flash - not a problem for a CPFer but a major consideration when you give a modded flashlight to someone that does not even have a VOHM. How do you tell a teenager not to use the flashlight for a day after you charge it?

60+ minute run times with 2700+ Mah AA batterys.

Unusually long bulb life.

and they are cheap...

[chuck614]

and they are cheap...

Speaking of cheap, that Hikari 50W'er I sent is a pleasant surprise. While the 75W didn't do as well as I hoped. Still, I think this thread is probably the most useful in all of CPF. Thanks Lux!